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Messages
4,503
I'm not sure about that, tbh.

What he lacks in explosiveness, and speed, he makes up for with skill, and defence.

I lost count of how many tries Gutho saved this year.

And we all know how skilful he is.

I think he is a brilliant player, and would hate to see him leave.

But he is probably a little easier to replace than Mahoney.
I agree with all of that. I'm just thinking about it from a market perspective, no club could really afford to offer him heaps more than he already gets with Parra. I just hope his manager doesn't continue to be a f**kwits about negotiations.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,337
For the imbeciles that are arguing that it is inevitable that a large chunk of your roster will always come of contract together.

Yeah sure no sh*t!

The solution to this by the smarter run clubs is to renegotiate with the better must keep players way before the year that they are open to external offers. Like who would have thunk it?

Mahoney is a young and very talented spine player that we all knew was only going to get better and better with age and experience barring injury. The longer we left it the way it is now the more he was in the shop window and showing his talent and value to the rest of the league world to see. So now all the wolves sense a weakness with so many of our flock bleating and vulnerable at the same time. They are strategizing, circling and moving in for a kill and see Mahoney as the meatiest, plumpest, tastiest meal grazing on our defenseless and open free rage farm to be got.

The point is he should have been wrapped up a year ago and given a 4-5 year contract and made to feel like a king that we wanted to build a roster around. That is how you keep the best young talents in your club. Not by letting their contracts run out with the rest of the squad and then have him fight it out with all the other guys in the same boat for whatever scraps you can put together to keep him.

Does anyone think he has been made to feel special and prioritized by our club right now? I say he feels wanted sure and he probably loves his mates and our club, but is it enough? Did we make him feel extra special enough though and valued like the elite spine player that he is? Well I doubt it. I see a guy that loves his job, mates, coach and club, for sure but I am not sure if it will be enough when other clubs can offer $100-200K+ more then what we can now offer comfortably without losing others or knocking our salary cap out of whack somewhat.

So again, is it should have been done at least a year ago and he should have been made to feel like the bees knees, the cats meow and the dogs bullocks all rolled into one during the process. Yeah I know that pou and others will say that you can't make a player sign early if they don't want to, sure but you can help them feel like they want to sign more then anything else. If HOF is worth his salt then he and the coach make the elite players with the right personality want to be part of this club forever, and I think with someone like Mahoney it wouldn't take all that much to make him feel such a big part of our club that he would want to sign a long term contract irrespective of what his manager says or for the extra dollars that might be on offer elsewhere.

Look at Manu at the Roosters, on the open market he is a $1m+ player, but I bet you that he won't be signing for a million at the Roosters. They have made him feel special. He won't be going anywhere. That is how you keep your best players. You prioritize and make them feel the love and feel special. We are all human and we all react to love in a positive way and the more love you are given the more difficult it is to spurn that love.

I have said it before, in the age of the salary cap, the only difference between keeping your best players or not besides paying them fairly will come down to love. I am not suggesting we low ball Mahoney, I think we should pay him fairly(around $600-$700k at this stage of his career) but unfortunately now others will probably offer more and that is why we should have moved heaven and earth to have done this ages ago and shown him the necessary love and respect to get it done. It is kind of to late to make him feel prioritized now, but lets hope that he feels enough loyalty and love to our club, mates coach and fans to sway him enough to sign again. Who the hell knows now? It could go either way.

Once all this sh*t round of re-signings is done with, Dylbags and Junior should be immediately made a priority to re-sign extensions. We don't want to keep going through this every freaking year, especially with a new franchise swimming around looking for an easy feed.

We need to be smarter then this.
 

Bandwagon

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
31,134
It's also easy to take for granted the change in resilience and mental toughness in this squad, and yeah I know there's some here that still believe we are mentally weak, but consider but a few short years ago as a fan you'd just be waiting for us to crack near every game.

We could have an 18 point lead with 10 to go and still be nervous as f**k because you just knew we were one poor moment, a bad call or a dropped ball from cracking and shitting the bed.

We still have the odd poor game in us, but it aint the same, and compare our two games against the storm, and our two games against Penrith this year, against similar games a few years ago, that resilience isn't by chance, it's there because the culture of the club is changing for the better, and that comes from the leadership.
 
Messages
4,503
For the imbeciles that are arguing that it is inevitable that a large chunk of your roster will always come of contract together.

Yeah sure no sh*t!

The solution to this by the smarter run clubs is to renegotiate with the better must keep players way before the year that they are open to external offers. Like who would have thunk it?

Mahoney is a young and very talented spine player that we all knew was only going to get better and better with age and experience barring injury. The longer we left it the way it is now the more he was in the shop window and showing his talent and value to the rest of the league world to see. So now all the wolves sense a weakness with so many of our flock bleating and vulnerable at the same time. They are strategizing, circling and moving in for a kill and see Mahoney as the meatiest, plumpest, tastiest meal grazing on our defenseless and open free rage farm to be got.

The point is he should have been wrapped up a year ago and given a 4-5 year contract and made to feel like a king that we wanted to build a roster around. That is how you keep the best young talents in your club. Not by letting their contracts run out with the rest of the squad and then have him fight it out with all the other guys in the same boat for whatever scraps you can put together to keep him.

Does anyone think he has been made to feel special and prioritized by our club right now? I say he feels wanted sure and he probably loves his mates and our club, but is it enough? Did we make him feel extra special enough though and valued like the elite spine player that he is? Well I doubt it. I see a guy that loves his job, mates, coach and club, for sure but I am not sure if it will be enough when other clubs can offer $100-200K+ more then what we can now offer comfortably without losing others or knocking our salary cap out of whack somewhat.

So again, is it should have been done at least a year ago and he should have been made to feel like the bees knees, the cats meow and the dogs bullocks all rolled into one during the process. Yeah I know that pou and others will say that you can't make a player sign early if they don't want to, sure but you can help them feel like they want to sign more then anything else. If HOF is worth his salt then he and the coach make the elite players with the right personality want to be part of this club forever, and I think with someone like Mahoney it wouldn't take all that much to make him feel such a big part of our club that he would want to sign a long term contract irrespective of what his manager says or for the extra dollars that might be on offer elsewhere.

Look at Manu at the Roosters, on the open market he is a $1m+ player, but I bet you that he won't be signing for a million at the Roosters. They have made him feel special. He won't be going anywhere. That is how you keep your best players. You prioritize and make them feel the love and feel special. We are all human and we all react to love in a positive way and the more love you are given the more difficult it is to spurn that love.

I have said it before, in the age of the salary cap, the only difference between keeping your best players or not besides paying them fairly will come down to love. I am not suggesting we low ball Mahoney, I think we should pay him fairly(around $600-$700k at this stage of his career) but unfortunately now others will probably offer more and that is why we should have moved heaven and earth to have done this ages ago and shown him the necessary love and respect to get it done. It is kind of to late to make him feel prioritized now, but lets hope that he feels enough loyalty and love to our club, mates coach and fans to sway him enough to sign again. Who the hell knows now? It could go either way.

Once all this sh*t round of re-signings is done with, Dylbags and Junior should be immediately made a priority to re-sign extensions. We don't want to keep going through this every freaking year, especially with a new franchise swimming around looking for an easy feed.

We need to be smarter then this.
The only problem with this Ram is player managers. They would have known a new club was coming and advising their players not to sign anything if they were smart. I wouldn't have signed a new contract last year if I was Rheed unless it was massive.
 

Bandwagon

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
31,134
For the imbeciles that are arguing that it is inevitable that a large chunk of your roster will always come of contract together.

Yeah sure no sh*t!

The solution to this by the smarter run clubs is to renegotiate with the better must keep players way before the year that they are open to external offers. Like who would have thunk it?

Sure, but us imbeciles can do simple maths and understand simple concepts like eventual contract length.

If you're signing players to three year contracts and you're re-signing well before a player comes off contract ( the last year of a contract ), you're looking to resign them between a year and say a year and a half into their contract.

If you re-sign for another 2-3 years, you've now got a player contracted for the next 3&1/2 - 5 years.

If you don't want to be committed to a player for that length of time, that's fine, but if you don't, you negotiate as they come off contract or just before.
 

Bandwagon

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
31,134
The only problem with this Ram is player managers. They would have known a new club was coming and advising their players not to sign anything if they were smart. I wouldn't have signed a new contract last year if I was Rheed unless it was massive.

It's not the only problem, but yeah, it's definitely an issue now. With a new club needing 30 new players, how many players are gonna struggle to find a contract? There'll be a shit ton of horse trading going on over the next year or so, their has to be for them to fill their roster.
 

eels_fan

First Grade
Messages
5,049
There also seems to be a small side issue of players who refuse to be vaccinated developing. This will be interesting.
Cant remember what article it was in, but earlier this week it was reported the Eels and the Sharks are the most vaccinated teams in the NRL, with only 1 nrl squad player yet to be vaccinated.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,337
It's also easy to take for granted the change in resilience and mental toughness in this squad, and yeah I know there's some here that still believe we are mentally weak, but consider but a few short years ago as a fan you'd just be waiting for us to crack near every game.

We could have an 18 point lead with 10 to go and still be nervous as f**k because you just knew we were one poor moment, a bad call or a dropped ball from cracking and shitting the bed.

We still have the odd poor game in us, but it aint the same, and compare our two games against the storm, and our two games against Penrith this year, against similar games a few years ago, that resilience isn't by chance, it's there because the culture of the club is changing for the better, and that comes from the leadership.

I still don't rate our club culture all that great. I see a club like the Bulldogs as a much better club culture then ours. Even when they were sh*t the last few seasons on average they showed way better tenacity in trying their guts out then we did when we were in the same boat. I feel as a club they have a win at all costs type of attitude that is in the framework and foundations of that club and part of its psyche and belief system as a whole.

We on the other hand just don't and other then that stellar 11 year period of exceptionalism we have not won a thing due to our mental weakness and soft underbelly approach more then anything else and it shows in so many of our hires. I think it stems from years of having the former Emperor and subsequent other multiple losers who ran this club more for their own gain then the love of the club and the Eels. The passion and winning culture for example that both Bullfrog Moore and Ken Arthurson bled into the very fabric of those two clubs and what it meant to be part of their organization and wear their colours and emblem has created a legacy that every player who follows feels and understands and reacts to immediately.

Look at the Roosters now with Uncle Nick and Trent Robinson and the way players are in love with that organization. Again a public and private display of love for the club and its players. When that is in the walls of your organization, then that is very hard to beat and players lift to greater levels and even when they leave they have a special feeling and loyalty to that club that other clubs just don't match up to.

I think I told the story before, but I met and had a drink or two with Dean Pay back in the day when he was still playing for us. Well we were just gas bagging about crap and the topic turned to the Bulldogs and his eyes just glazed over and he looked like a man dreaming of a lost former lover that he wished that he was still with. He then went on to say that he loves his Doggies, not to say he doesn't enjoy his current time at the Eels, "but I love my Doggies" is the direct quote. I will never forget that because his defense was down and he was speaking from the heart and his face said everything. I was obviously annoyed at the time and said something like I get that, but as long as you still give your all to my Eels I'm happy. Which he said he does and I think we all agree he did. But was he as committed to us as he was with the Doggies? Doubtful.

The point is though I don't think we had the passion from the very top to build the right culture as the other teams that are winning Premierships in every decade had/have no matter what. I think besides money, which is obviously a necessity for success, that never give in culture comes from the very top. The clubs leader/s sets the right tone and direction and overall attitude, even for the coach. That leader/s must actually LOVE the club like breath and life itself. If you have that type of commitment from the top, then it is only a matter of time before, from little things big things grow.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,337
The only problem with this Ram is player managers. They would have known a new club was coming and advising their players not to sign anything if they were smart. I wouldn't have signed a new contract last year if I was Rheed unless it was massive.

Sure that is easy to say if you are like us on the outside looking in, but Mahoney is living it.

So if you are the clubs recruitment and retention committee you can see the potential problems coming down the track, so you make sure that you get the most important signatures signed as early as possible. I know managers will always advise their cattle to look to make the best deal possible, so that is why it is even more important to have wowed Mahoney ages ago and like I said, he doesn't strike me as the type of person that would milk us for every cent he can get like the managers would advise him to.

For mine if we made the right moves a year or so ago, and gave him a fair offer, he would have told his manager that he was happy at the club and taken it. That is the feeling I get with him and most players if you give them the love and security that they all so desperately want. There are the ones that see the game as a job and profession that they need to make as much money out of as possible while they can, but I don't get that vibe from Mahoney.

Anyway, all to late now. We now have to compete with everyone else on the open market and it could go either way. Great club planning.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,337
Sure, but us imbeciles can do simple maths and understand simple concepts like eventual contract length.

If you're signing players to three year contracts and you're re-signing well before a player comes off contract ( the last year of a contract ), you're looking to resign them between a year and say a year and a half into their contract.

If you re-sign for another 2-3 years, you've now got a player contracted for the next 3&1/2 - 5 years.

If you don't want to be committed to a player for that length of time, that's fine, but if you don't, you negotiate as they come off contract or just before.

Only an imbecile would think that we wouldn't want Mahoney for at least another 5+ years which would be his best years.
 

Bandwagon

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
31,134
Only an imbecile would think that we wouldn't want Mahoney for at least another 5+ years which would be his best years.

Ideally yeah, but 5 years is a long time in professional sport, and whilst we might want him for the next five years, we also have to recognise that the further out you write a contract, the more potential for it to bite you on the arse, longer and harder.

Only an imbecile wouldn't recognise that. That's part of the reason long term contracts are the exception, not the rule.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
68,162
There isn't a heap of fullbacks that offer more than Gutho. I think merkins underestimate his influence on this squad, both on and off the field.

Who you gonna trade him for that offers as much for less coin? Or even close to as much?
They don't need to offer as much. Gutherson takes opportunities away from other spine players in our structure. He could do less and we would potentially be better in attack. Therefore so could his replacement.
 

Bandwagon

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
31,134
They don't need to offer as much. Gutherson takes opportunities away from other spine players in our structure. He could do less and we would potentially be better in attack. Therefore so could his replacement.

I don't really buy that as applicable here, however assuming for a moment that is correct, "offer as much" isn't about attack alone.

If all we needed to do was replace him with someone who was equally effective in attack, I don't believe we'd have all that much trouble TBH.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,337
Ideally yeah, but 5 years is a long time in professional sport, and whilst we might want him for the next five years, we also have to recognise that the further out you write a contract, the more potential for it to bite you on the arse, longer and harder.

Only an imbecile wouldn't recognise that. That's part of the reason long term contracts are the exception, not the rule.

There are some risks that only an imbecile wouldn't take.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
68,162
The only problem with this Ram is player managers. They would have known a new club was coming and advising their players not to sign anything if they were smart. I wouldn't have signed a new contract last year if I was Rheed unless it was massive.
Haha yep. "f**k, we could've gotten so much more money if we'd waited. Why didn't we think of that??"
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,337
Also if Mahoney keeps going on the trajectory that he has been going in and improving still, he will probably go down as the best dummy half we have ever had, that's if we can keep him during his best years.

It has taken us literally decades to develop a quality hooker that if he stays fit will be in the top 3 hookers every year over the next 5 years or so. That is how rare Mahoney is to our club.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,337
.......and there are some risks that need not be taken, because they can be minimised in other ways. Even an imbecile could understand that.



You should stay at home mate just in case, well just in case.

That gif sums you up perfectly.
 

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