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TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,911
Sure. Since you’re the tactics and recovery master, what is the right amount of runs we should be expecting from our middles? How many is too many, and how many do you think were made by the premiers’ middle forwards last year?
Hindsight has nothing to do with it. They are assuming that our middles make the most runs per game in the NRL when the fact is they don’t. There’s also a bunch of middles who make more runs than our busiest middle forward Matterson, though last year he made the most carries of all forwards in the NRL. But even last year there were a few who made more runs than Paulo and RCG, including Yeo and JFH. How exactly are our guys ‘worn out’ and none of the others are? If they were worn out by running the ball all year we would never have made the grand final.
Edwards and To’o combined for about 500m. They always carve us up.

This is where your stats let you down and you need your eyes to tell fill in what the stats alone can't and won't. It's all about nuance.

The Panthers have played in 3 straight GF's and won 2 because they have quality extras that no other team does. They have middles that can play just like ours IF they need to. They have outside backs that relieve those middles so the middles don't need to constantly hit fresh and brutal walls in front of them. Until this year they also had 2 exceptional edges and a spine that could then polish it all off.

When you have such luxuries your middles are then gifted with less game to game punishment as the burden isn't solely on them. There would be games during the season that they are plowing forward into an already weak and exhausted middle third by half time or even sooner, because those other battering rams have run them senseless.

I don't think I need to paint a picture for what this all mean for them when it's their turn to defend do I? That is way to bleeding obvious even for you and your one dimensional stats routine. Right?

That is why they won what was it 19 straight or something. That type of luxury is unheard of in the modern NRL. That is why they won the minor premiership by so much and how they could rest almost their entire squad before the finals to give them all one last freshen up to be uber ready to do business in the playoffs.

They had the luxury to mix and match for most of the time during the last 3 years and the benefit of that is obvious to everyone that isn't just looking at stats.

Now contrast that scenario to us and I will only focus on us because that is what I care about and couldn't give a toss about any other team and their short comings.

We have in the last 3 seasons had a chase the collision edict(and contrary to your belief it implies both offense and defense) when carried out to it's fullest. But the problem isn't in the tactic itself it is in the players we have chosen to execute it. We have decided with no extras to place this burdeness tactic on just 2 quality middles and yes we have had 2 quality edges and a 13 of quality too. But that is where the quality support ends.

The pecking order down from there almost slides off a cliff. So therefore our 2 middles don't get the luxuries that the Panthers whole team get of easing the pressure, responsibility and burden that is afforded them. No in total contrast our 2 middles are reminded constantly by everyone from Potato Head to the kid in the street that they are paid the handsomely to do long minutes and the team relies on them to keep chasing the collision and they must always be up for a power game otherwise the team will fail.

But how do you MAINTAIN such a strategy with just 2 palookas for an entire season and not yoyo in your performance? I'll tell you how, you don't. The best we have managed is the 2 seasons where we started like a house on fire, but then halfway through the season we started to splutter and eventually had very little to really rise above our injuries and fatigue.

Sure we can muster a great performance here and there once the fatigue sets in as has been evidenced in the past at playoffs time. But when we come to having to play against 2 or 3 quality sides in a row that actually sticks it to us, we have never triumphed and that is what is needed to win a GF. There will hardly ever be a playoff series that we will play that we will have it easy for more then a game. Then we will end up playing a team that will fight us tooth and nail. Then another one and that is what ends up beating us because there is nothing left in reserve. The 2 boppers have now hit empty and the 7-9 days layoff isn't enough to refill the tank when the other team has had an easier season overall and been using there interchange more effectively and in the Panthers case resting key players leading into the playoffs entirely.

How do you compete with that, with just 2 boppers saddled with playing a collision game with fu*k all support or backups on the bench. Long minutes is essential to get them battle ready, but then it is just as essential to ease off when necessary to give them a breath and keep them fresh too. Stats don't show you how Paulo and RCG are dreading another game of collision with not bench or outside back support when all they feel like doing is their fair share and then go fishing. They have been over worked. They may not complain, but look at Paulo this year. His hunger for GF success is just as fierce as always yet his attitude and body are struggling to stay in the fight. He needed to be shocked through embarrassment last week to snap into action.

That can only happen once or twice. Fatigue is fatigue and once you have it, it only gets worse. Unless we can alleviate that burden somewhat he will only get worse and worse. I expect RCG will start to show similar symptoms too, but being the more aerobic of the 2 it will take longer. Hopefully with Greig and Offa we have started to address this and we may just save them and enough give them the appropriate rests during games and prolong their demise and thus the teams. But it is touch and go, because once those heavy legs and injuries set it, they may not get to where they once were.

The body can be strange like that. Think of marathon runners. They only have so many in them before they can never reach the same times again and our sport being a sport of endurance and the way we want our middles playing long minutes it could be a similar thing.

Sh*t I could go on a little further but, this is getting ridiculously long and I think I have made enough of a point. Like it or lump it. Our middles are tiered come September and now even earlier due to our game plan and a lack of support for them. End of.
 

IFR33K

Coach
Messages
17,043
This is where your stats let you down and you need your eyes to tell fill in what the stats alone can't and won't. It's all about nuance.

The Panthers have played in 3 straight GF's and won 2 because they have quality extras that no other team does. They have middles that can play just like ours IF they need to. They have outside backs that relieve those middles so the middles don't need to constantly hit fresh and brutal walls in front of them. Until this year they also had 2 exceptional edges and a spine that could then polish it all off.

When you have such luxuries your middles are then gifted with less game to game punishment as the burden isn't solely on them. There would be games during the season that they are plowing forward into an already weak and exhausted middle third by half time or even sooner, because those other battering rams have run them senseless.

I don't think I need to paint a picture for what this all mean for them when it's their turn to defend do I? That is way to bleeding obvious even for you and your one dimensional stats routine. Right?

That is why they won what was it 19 straight or something. That type of luxury is unheard of in the modern NRL. That is why they won the minor premiership by so much and how they could rest almost their entire squad before the finals to give them all one last freshen up to be uber ready to do business in the playoffs.

They had the luxury to mix and match for most of the time during the last 3 years and the benefit of that is obvious to everyone that isn't just looking at stats.

Now contrast that scenario to us and I will only focus on us because that is what I care about and couldn't give a toss about any other team and their short comings.

We have in the last 3 seasons had a chase the collision edict(and contrary to your belief it implies both offense and defense) when carried out to it's fullest. But the problem isn't in the tactic itself it is in the players we have chosen to execute it. We have decided with no extras to place this burdeness tactic on just 2 quality middles and yes we have had 2 quality edges and a 13 of quality too. But that is where the quality support ends.

The pecking order down from there almost slides off a cliff. So therefore our 2 middles don't get the luxuries that the Panthers whole team get of easing the pressure, responsibility and burden that is afforded them. No in total contrast our 2 middles are reminded constantly by everyone from Potato Head to the kid in the street that they are paid the handsomely to do long minutes and the team relies on them to keep chasing the collision and they must always be up for a power game otherwise the team will fail.

But how do you MAINTAIN such a strategy with just 2 palookas for an entire season and not yoyo in your performance? I'll tell you how, you don't. The best we have managed is the 2 seasons where we started like a house on fire, but then halfway through the season we started to splutter and eventually had very little to really rise above our injuries and fatigue.

Sure we can muster a great performance here and there once the fatigue sets in as has been evidenced in the past at playoffs time. But when we come to having to play against 2 or 3 quality sides in a row that actually sticks it to us, we have never triumphed and that is what is needed to win a GF. There will hardly ever be a playoff series that we will play that we will have it easy for more then a game. Then we will end up playing a team that will fight us tooth and nail. Then another one and that is what ends up beating us because there is nothing left in reserve. The 2 boppers have now hit empty and the 7-9 days layoff isn't enough to refill the tank when the other team has had an easier season overall and been using there interchange more effectively and in the Panthers case resting key players leading into the playoffs entirely.

How do you compete with that, with just 2 boppers saddled with playing a collision game with fu*k all support or backups on the bench. Long minutes is essential to get them battle ready, but then it is just as essential to ease off when necessary to give them a breath and keep them fresh too. Stats don't show you how Paulo and RCG are dreading another game of collision with not bench or outside back support when all they feel like doing is their fair share and then go fishing. They have been over worked. They may not complain, but look at Paulo this year. His hunger for GF success is just as fierce as always yet his attitude and body are struggling to stay in the fight. He needed to be shocked through embarrassment last week to snap into action.

That can only happen once or twice. Fatigue is fatigue and once you have it, it only gets worse. Unless we can alleviate that burden somewhat he will only get worse and worse. I expect RCG will start to show similar symptoms too, but being the more aerobic of the 2 it will take longer. Hopefully with Greig and Offa we have started to address this and we may just save them and enough give them the appropriate rests during games and prolong their demise and thus the teams. But it is touch and go, because once those heavy legs and injuries set it, they may not get to where they once were.

The body can be strange like that. Think of marathon runners. They only have so many in them before they can never reach the same times again and our sport being a sport of endurance and the way we want our middles playing long minutes it could be a similar thing.

Sh*t I could go on a little further but, this is getting ridiculously long and I think I have made enough of a point. Like it or lump it. Our middles are tiered come September and now even earlier due to our game plan and a lack of support for them. End of.


good read. Thanks for keeping it short and sweet
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,561
This is where your stats let you down and you need your eyes to tell fill in what the stats alone can't and won't. It's all about nuance.

The Panthers have played in 3 straight GF's and won 2 because they have quality extras that no other team does. They have middles that can play just like ours IF they need to. They have outside backs that relieve those middles so the middles don't need to constantly hit fresh and brutal walls in front of them. Until this year they also had 2 exceptional edges and a spine that could then polish it all off.

When you have such luxuries your middles are then gifted with less game to game punishment as the burden isn't solely on them. There would be games during the season that they are plowing forward into an already weak and exhausted middle third by half time or even sooner, because those other battering rams have run them senseless.

I don't think I need to paint a picture for what this all mean for them when it's their turn to defend do I? That is way to bleeding obvious even for you and your one dimensional stats routine. Right?

That is why they won what was it 19 straight or something. That type of luxury is unheard of in the modern NRL. That is why they won the minor premiership by so much and how they could rest almost their entire squad before the finals to give them all one last freshen up to be uber ready to do business in the playoffs.

They had the luxury to mix and match for most of the time during the last 3 years and the benefit of that is obvious to everyone that isn't just looking at stats.

Now contrast that scenario to us and I will only focus on us because that is what I care about and couldn't give a toss about any other team and their short comings.

We have in the last 3 seasons had a chase the collision edict(and contrary to your belief it implies both offense and defense) when carried out to it's fullest. But the problem isn't in the tactic itself it is in the players we have chosen to execute it. We have decided with no extras to place this burdeness tactic on just 2 quality middles and yes we have had 2 quality edges and a 13 of quality too. But that is where the quality support ends.

The pecking order down from there almost slides off a cliff. So therefore our 2 middles don't get the luxuries that the Panthers whole team get of easing the pressure, responsibility and burden that is afforded them. No in total contrast our 2 middles are reminded constantly by everyone from Potato Head to the kid in the street that they are paid the handsomely to do long minutes and the team relies on them to keep chasing the collision and they must always be up for a power game otherwise the team will fail.

But how do you MAINTAIN such a strategy with just 2 palookas for an entire season and not yoyo in your performance? I'll tell you how, you don't. The best we have managed is the 2 seasons where we started like a house on fire, but then halfway through the season we started to splutter and eventually had very little to really rise above our injuries and fatigue.

Sure we can muster a great performance here and there once the fatigue sets in as has been evidenced in the past at playoffs time. But when we come to having to play against 2 or 3 quality sides in a row that actually sticks it to us, we have never triumphed and that is what is needed to win a GF. There will hardly ever be a playoff series that we will play that we will have it easy for more then a game. Then we will end up playing a team that will fight us tooth and nail. Then another one and that is what ends up beating us because there is nothing left in reserve. The 2 boppers have now hit empty and the 7-9 days layoff isn't enough to refill the tank when the other team has had an easier season overall and been using there interchange more effectively and in the Panthers case resting key players leading into the playoffs entirely.

How do you compete with that, with just 2 boppers saddled with playing a collision game with fu*k all support or backups on the bench. Long minutes is essential to get them battle ready, but then it is just as essential to ease off when necessary to give them a breath and keep them fresh too. Stats don't show you how Paulo and RCG are dreading another game of collision with not bench or outside back support when all they feel like doing is their fair share and then go fishing. They have been over worked. They may not complain, but look at Paulo this year. His hunger for GF success is just as fierce as always yet his attitude and body are struggling to stay in the fight. He needed to be shocked through embarrassment last week to snap into action.

That can only happen once or twice. Fatigue is fatigue and once you have it, it only gets worse. Unless we can alleviate that burden somewhat he will only get worse and worse. I expect RCG will start to show similar symptoms too, but being the more aerobic of the 2 it will take longer. Hopefully with Greig and Offa we have started to address this and we may just save them and enough give them the appropriate rests during games and prolong their demise and thus the teams. But it is touch and go, because once those heavy legs and injuries set it, they may not get to where they once were.

The body can be strange like that. Think of marathon runners. They only have so many in them before they can never reach the same times again and our sport being a sport of endurance and the way we want our middles playing long minutes it could be a similar thing.

Sh*t I could go on a little further but, this is getting ridiculously long and I think I have made enough of a point. Like it or lump it. Our middles are tiered come September and now even earlier due to our game plan and a lack of support for them. End of.
If our middles were tired in September we wouldn’t have won in Townsville.

The fact is we aren’t as well resourced as bigger clubs so we have fewer options. Our strengths are our middles and long kicking game, and to benefit from them we need to control the ball and finish our sets. When that doesn’t happen we have to do too much defending and our middles are taken out of the game. Much like how Leota only makes five runs when he is forced to spend his 35 minutes tackling.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,911
Bog average is what you want from a backup. You don't want a rocks-and-diamonds type. And if you want some merkin who is better than average why is he a backup ffs

What you want as backup is future quality players and stars coming up from the lower grades ffs!

This is how the Panthers have won 2 out of 3 Grand Finals ffs!

We on the other hand have had Pou plodder quality coming through and won just as much ffs!.

Get a grip you imbecile. Open your eyes and look beyond the stats that are so crippling you ffs!.

I know it will be tough breaking free from your Jar Head indoctrination but I am your biggest supporter and have faith in you ffs!.

You can do it. Make seeing great again.

ffs!
 

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