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Sack Griffin

Bayside Dragon

Juniors
Messages
62
Well you sure got that wrong, wrong, wrong..........
Putting my 2 cents in...…..

I am a fan of McInnes and I wish him every good thing in life. However, I understand where Griffin is coming from. More is required to be a dominant hooker than just passion, effort, work ethic and club loyalty.

Game awareness and precision passing from dummy half is what Cam Smith had in spades and made him greater than all others at hooker. Griffin (was he not a hooker himself?) knows that and figured that McInnes was a bit lacking in these skills, and McCulloch offers more.

By game awareness, I'm talking about controlling what can be controlled. Like managing the workload between the forwards. Knowing who needs to be brought more into the game and who needs resting. Maintaining the vigour, if you will. Managing the energy levels of his troops. More so than the halves, the hooker is the coach's brains and game plan manager. He who has most touches of the ball. Whether to play though the forwards or spread to the backs.... I didn't see that very often with Cam, to be honest.

By precision passing, I mean delivering the ball to where it needs to be...... and very, very often. My enduring memory of the Dragons in recent times are images of clearing the ruck with Hunt, Clune and Norman leaping into the air or reaching down to their ankles to grab balls at first receiver. That and wayward balls thrown behind them or bouncing around somewhere between first and second receivers. Or balls thrown to flat-footed forwards... or running forwards who receive the ball so flat that the poor bastards barely have time to catch the ball -let alone think what they can do with it- before being crunched by the opposition.

I'm sure McCulloch was signed to address all these issues.

And one last point: McCulloch too old??!!! Give me a break, fellas!

Didn't Cam Smith show us that you don't have to be charging though defensive lines and running for over 100m a game to be one of the best the world has ever seen??? And how old is he?

A simple jog to the ruck, the odd deft kick, game awareness and a great pass worked a treat for him. Surely our bloke McCulloch isn't too old for that? Obviously, Griffin thinks he's up for it. He's there to make the team function. No more and no less.

Not that I'm knockin' passion, effort, work ethic and club loyalty........just sayin'.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
13,883
McInnes has been at the Dragons for 3 years and we have not been a force in that time. I am not saying it's all his fault but he lacks flair in attack. He is tuff and can tackle but he is not the hooker for us if we are going to improve. He is actually a better lock than a hooker.
McInnes is the Hooker that Mary preferred and like with Mary's attitude towards his assistant coaches, JD and Holbrook, any threat to McInnes's tenor was let go before such a contest could grow legs.

Robson should have been retained and given first grade time off the bench in tandem with McInnes. Remember, it was McInnes who signed with the Sharks in December 2020 after contract discussion with the Sharks that commenced not long after Mary was sacked.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
13,883
Putting my 2 cents in...…..

I am a fan of McInnes and I wish him every good thing in life. However, I understand where Griffin is coming from. More is required to be a dominant hooker than just passion, effort, work ethic and club loyalty.

Game awareness and precision passing from dummy half is what Cam Smith had in spades and made him greater than all others at hooker. Griffin (was he not a hooker himself?) knows that and figured that McInnes was a bit lacking in these skills, and McCulloch offers more.

By game awareness, I'm talking about controlling what can be controlled. Like managing the workload between the forwards. Knowing who needs to be brought more into the game and who needs resting. Maintaining the vigour, if you will. Managing the energy levels of his troops. More so than the halves, the hooker is the coach's brains and game plan manager. He who has most touches of the ball. Whether to play though the forwards or spread to the backs.... I didn't see that very often with Cam, to be honest.

By precision passing, I mean delivering the ball to where it needs to be...... and very, very often. My enduring memory of the Dragons in recent times are images of clearing the ruck with Hunt, Clune and Norman leaping into the air or reaching down to their ankles to grab balls at first receiver. That and wayward balls thrown behind them or bouncing around somewhere between first and second receivers. Or balls thrown to flat-footed forwards... or running forwards who receive the ball so flat that the poor bastards barely have time to catch the ball -let alone think what they can do with it- before being crunched by the opposition.

I'm sure McCulloch was signed to address all these issues.

And one last point: McCulloch too old??!!! Give me a break, fellas!

Didn't Cam Smith show us that you don't have to be charging though defensive lines and running for over 100m a game to be one of the best the world has ever seen??? And how old is he?

A simple jog to the ruck, the odd deft kick, game awareness and a great pass worked a treat for him. Surely our bloke McCulloch isn't too old for that? Obviously, Griffin thinks he's up for it. He's there to make the team function. No more and no less.

Not that I'm knockin' passion, effort, work ethic and club loyalty........just sayin'.
With McInnes it was much more than that. He had extreme loyalty to the outgoing coach and fundamental objections to the changes Griffin was making.

In addition he was quite vocal in his views. So Griffin did not have to let him go, McInnes wanted out and found the best exit for himself; to the welcoming arms of our arch rival.

I say good luck to Cam, I hope he have found want suits you best.
 

Inisai Toga

Juniors
Messages
781
Putting my 2 cents in...…..

I am a fan of McInnes and I wish him every good thing in life. However, I understand where Griffin is coming from. More is required to be a dominant hooker than just passion, effort, work ethic and club loyalty.

Game awareness and precision passing from dummy half is what Cam Smith had in spades and made him greater than all others at hooker. Griffin (was he not a hooker himself?) knows that and figured that McInnes was a bit lacking in these skills, and McCulloch offers more.

By game awareness, I'm talking about controlling what can be controlled. Like managing the workload between the forwards. Knowing who needs to be brought more into the game and who needs resting. Maintaining the vigour, if you will. Managing the energy levels of his troops. More so than the halves, the hooker is the coach's brains and game plan manager. He who has most touches of the ball. Whether to play though the forwards or spread to the backs.... I didn't see that very often with Cam, to be honest.

By precision passing, I mean delivering the ball to where it needs to be...... and very, very often. My enduring memory of the Dragons in recent times are images of clearing the ruck with Hunt, Clune and Norman leaping into the air or reaching down to their ankles to grab balls at first receiver. That and wayward balls thrown behind them or bouncing around somewhere between first and second receivers. Or balls thrown to flat-footed forwards... or running forwards who receive the ball so flat that the poor bastards barely have time to catch the ball -let alone think what they can do with it- before being crunched by the opposition.

I'm sure McCulloch was signed to address all these issues.

And one last point: McCulloch too old??!!! Give me a break, fellas!

Didn't Cam Smith show us that you don't have to be charging though defensive lines and running for over 100m a game to be one of the best the world has ever seen??? And how old is he?

A simple jog to the ruck, the odd deft kick, game awareness and a great pass worked a treat for him. Surely our bloke McCulloch isn't too old for that? Obviously, Griffin thinks he's up for it. He's there to make the team function. No more and no less.

Not that I'm knockin' passion, effort, work ethic and club loyalty........just sayin'.
great post :ok_hand:
 

giboz71

First Grade
Messages
6,918
Putting my 2 cents in...…..

I am a fan of McInnes and I wish him every good thing in life. However, I understand where Griffin is coming from. More is required to be a dominant hooker than just passion, effort, work ethic and club loyalty.

Game awareness and precision passing from dummy half is what Cam Smith had in spades and made him greater than all others at hooker. Griffin (was he not a hooker himself?) knows that and figured that McInnes was a bit lacking in these skills, and McCulloch offers more.

By game awareness, I'm talking about controlling what can be controlled. Like managing the workload between the forwards. Knowing who needs to be brought more into the game and who needs resting. Maintaining the vigour, if you will. Managing the energy levels of his troops. More so than the halves, the hooker is the coach's brains and game plan manager. He who has most touches of the ball. Whether to play though the forwards or spread to the backs.... I didn't see that very often with Cam, to be honest.

By precision passing, I mean delivering the ball to where it needs to be...... and very, very often. My enduring memory of the Dragons in recent times are images of clearing the ruck with Hunt, Clune and Norman leaping into the air or reaching down to their ankles to grab balls at first receiver. That and wayward balls thrown behind them or bouncing around somewhere between first and second receivers. Or balls thrown to flat-footed forwards... or running forwards who receive the ball so flat that the poor bastards barely have time to catch the ball -let alone think what they can do with it- before being crunched by the opposition.

I'm sure McCulloch was signed to address all these issues.

And one last point: McCulloch too old??!!! Give me a break, fellas!

Didn't Cam Smith show us that you don't have to be charging though defensive lines and running for over 100m a game to be one of the best the world has ever seen??? And how old is he?

A simple jog to the ruck, the odd deft kick, game awareness and a great pass worked a treat for him. Surely our bloke McCulloch isn't too old for that? Obviously, Griffin thinks he's up for it. He's there to make the team function. No more and no less.

Not that I'm knockin' passion, effort, work ethic and club loyalty........just sayin'.

Very good post.

I have pleaded for our side to get a proper Hooker. Everything starts from how the ball is cleared from the ruck and its been piss poor throughout the whole McGregor era. Starting with Rein, then Cam and putting Hunt in there as a stop gap.

Hook took one look and that's the first thing he addressed. Didn't offer Cam the big money deal and he got AM.

AM is not flash, but he's effectively a poor man's Cam Smith. Won't have the flashy runs like Cook and Korisau, but just a steady head that guides the team around park, and has the basics covered like a slick pass, kick when required and putting the ball on a plate for our halves.

Something we haven't had from any of our hookers in about 10 years.
 
Last edited:

matPORTS

Juniors
Messages
392
Putting my 2 cents in...…..

I am a fan of McInnes and I wish him every good thing in life. However, I understand where Griffin is coming from. More is required to be a dominant hooker than just passion, effort, work ethic and club loyalty.

Game awareness and precision passing from dummy half is what Cam Smith had in spades and made him greater than all others at hooker. Griffin (was he not a hooker himself?) knows that and figured that McInnes was a bit lacking in these skills, and McCulloch offers more.

By game awareness, I'm talking about controlling what can be controlled. Like managing the workload between the forwards. Knowing who needs to be brought more into the game and who needs resting. Maintaining the vigour, if you will. Managing the energy levels of his troops. More so than the halves, the hooker is the coach's brains and game plan manager. He who has most touches of the ball. Whether to play though the forwards or spread to the backs.... I didn't see that very often with Cam, to be honest.

By precision passing, I mean delivering the ball to where it needs to be...... and very, very often. My enduring memory of the Dragons in recent times are images of clearing the ruck with Hunt, Clune and Norman leaping into the air or reaching down to their ankles to grab balls at first receiver. That and wayward balls thrown behind them or bouncing around somewhere between first and second receivers. Or balls thrown to flat-footed forwards... or running forwards who receive the ball so flat that the poor bastards barely have time to catch the ball -let alone think what they can do with it- before being crunched by the opposition.

I'm sure McCulloch was signed to address all these issues.

And one last point: McCulloch too old??!!! Give me a break, fellas!

Didn't Cam Smith show us that you don't have to be charging though defensive lines and running for over 100m a game to be one of the best the world has ever seen??? And how old is he?

A simple jog to the ruck, the odd deft kick, game awareness and a great pass worked a treat for him. Surely our bloke McCulloch isn't too old for that? Obviously, Griffin thinks he's up for it. He's there to make the team function. No more and no less.

Not that I'm knockin' passion, effort, work ethic and club loyalty........just sayin'.

Very good post.

I have pleaded for our side to get a proper Hooker. Everything starts from how the ball is cleared from the ruck and its been piss poor throughout the whole McGregor era. Starting with Rein, then Cam and putting Hunt in there as a stop gap.

Hook took one look and that's the first thing he addressed. Didn't offer Cam the big money deal and he got AM.

AM is not flash, but he's effectively a poor man's Cam Smith. Won't have the flashy runs like Cook and Korisau, but just a steady head that guides the team around park, and has the basics covered like a slick pass, kick when required and putting the ball on a plate for our halves.

Something we haven't had from any of our hookers in about 10 years.

Absolutely 100% agree with these posts.

Effective service from dummy half has been a problem for us throughout the entire Price/McGregor era. Even in the Bennett era it was a problem until we settled with Young/Fein combo in mid-late 2010.

Unfortunately when it comes to Cam McInnes, people have been blinded by the lighting up of the individual stats sheets, particularly around his defense. But I'd like to see some stats around his effectiveness in clearing the ruck, slickness in terms of his right/left passing, and putting the ball on the chest of his halves, particularly on the last tackle down inside the opposition 20m.

Many times over the last 10 years, we've looked like an absolute rabble on the last down inside the opposition 20m simply because our dummy half could not put an effective pass on the chest of our halves. Various commentators said many times that we were very effective in getting to the opposition 20m, but when we got there we had no idea where exactly we needed to be or what we needed to do.

I don't want to get too far ahead as our new attacking structures under Hook are definitely a work in progress, but there are already a lot of positive signs just from bringing in McCullough and getting back to basics in terms of our play from dummy half. Additionally, McCullough went and made 43 tackles last weekend as well.
 

denis preston

First Grade
Messages
5,419
McInnes is the Hooker that Mary preferred and like with Mary's attitude towards his assistant coaches, JD and Holbrook, any threat to McInnes's tenor was let go before such a contest could grow legs.

Robson should have been retained and given first grade time off the bench in tandem with McInnes. Remember, it was McInnes who signed with the Sharks in December 2020 after contract discussion with the Sharks that commenced not long after Mary was sacked.
Didnt really notice Robson last week, did he play ?
 

giboz71

First Grade
Messages
6,918
Absolutely 100% agree with these posts.

Effective service from dummy half has been a problem for us throughout the entire Price/McGregor era. Even in the Bennett era it was a problem until we settled with Young/Fein combo in mid-late 2010.

Unfortunately when it comes to Cam McInnes, people have been blinded by the lighting up of the individual stats sheets, particularly around his defense. But I'd like to see some stats around his effectiveness in clearing the ruck, slickness in terms of his right/left passing, and putting the ball on the chest of his halves, particularly on the last tackle down inside the opposition 20m.

Many times over the last 10 years, we've looked like an absolute rabble on the last down inside the opposition 20m simply because our dummy half could not put an effective pass on the chest of our halves. Various commentators said many times that we were very effective in getting to the opposition 20m, but when we got there we had no idea where exactly we needed to be or what we needed to do.

I don't want to get too far ahead as our new attacking structures under Hook are definitely a work in progress, but there are already a lot of positive signs just from bringing in McCullough and getting back to basics in terms of our play from dummy half. Additionally, McCullough went and made 43 tackles last weekend as well.

And our ineffectiveness in this area won't come out in stats, Its subtle what a proper Hooker brings. Take the Lomax winning try, AM just positioned our ruck exactly where he wanted it so that Hunt was in exactly the right spot to put up the deft kick for Lomax to time his run and jump perfectly. The previous 3-4 plays to get us in that particular spot on the field was just as important as the try itself.

Unfortunately, McGregor was too much of an imbecile to work out how important that aspect of a hooker's game is and just kept blabbering on about how great Cam's "D" was.
 

LINESPEED

Juniors
Messages
1,548
Putting my 2 cents in...…..

I am a fan of McInnes and I wish him every good thing in life. However, I understand where Griffin is coming from. More is required to be a dominant hooker than just passion, effort, work ethic and club loyalty.

Game awareness and precision passing from dummy half is what Cam Smith had in spades and made him greater than all others at hooker. Griffin (was he not a hooker himself?) knows that and figured that McInnes was a bit lacking in these skills, and McCulloch offers more.

By game awareness, I'm talking about controlling what can be controlled. Like managing the workload between the forwards. Knowing who needs to be brought more into the game and who needs resting. Maintaining the vigour, if you will. Managing the energy levels of his troops. More so than the halves, the hooker is the coach's brains and game plan manager. He who has most touches of the ball. Whether to play though the forwards or spread to the backs.... I didn't see that very often with Cam, to be honest.

By precision passing, I mean delivering the ball to where it needs to be...... and very, very often. My enduring memory of the Dragons in recent times are images of clearing the ruck with Hunt, Clune and Norman leaping into the air or reaching down to their ankles to grab balls at first receiver. That and wayward balls thrown behind them or bouncing around somewhere between first and second receivers. Or balls thrown to flat-footed forwards... or running forwards who receive the ball so flat that the poor bastards barely have time to catch the ball -let alone think what they can do with it- before being crunched by the opposition.

I'm sure McCulloch was signed to address all these issues.

And one last point: McCulloch too old??!!! Give me a break, fellas!

Didn't Cam Smith show us that you don't have to be charging though defensive lines and running for over 100m a game to be one of the best the world has ever seen??? And how old is he?

A simple jog to the ruck, the odd deft kick, game awareness and a great pass worked a treat for him. Surely our bloke McCulloch isn't too old for that? Obviously, Griffin thinks he's up for it. He's there to make the team function. No more and no less.

Not that I'm knockin' passion, effort, work ethic and club loyalty........just sayin'.

Agree BD 100%

You covered his playing weaknesses perfectly

Critically as captain he led us to failure as well

And his character/judgment weaknesses were there for all to see
in his simpering over his failed benefactor’s inglorious

(but oh so exhilarating)
sacking

Seeya mate
The captaincy of the Dragons was a gift you dishonoured

How interesting it is
that most players we’ve let go have failed to excite elsewhere

Kevin Ryan & Gordon Tallis IMO we’re our most regrettable losses in my time
 

Gareth67

First Grade
Messages
6,873
Putting my 2 cents in...…..

I am a fan of McInnes and I wish him every good thing in life. However, I understand where Griffin is coming from. More is required to be a dominant hooker than just passion, effort, work ethic and club loyalty.

Game awareness and precision passing from dummy half is what Cam Smith had in spades and made him greater than all others at hooker. Griffin (was he not a hooker himself?) knows that and figured that McInnes was a bit lacking in these skills, and McCulloch offers more.

By game awareness, I'm talking about controlling what can be controlled. Like managing the workload between the forwards. Knowing who needs to be brought more into the game and who needs resting. Maintaining the vigour, if you will. Managing the energy levels of his troops. More so than the halves, the hooker is the coach's brains and game plan manager. He who has most touches of the ball. Whether to play though the forwards or spread to the backs.... I didn't see that very often with Cam, to be honest.

By precision passing, I mean delivering the ball to where it needs to be...... and very, very often. My enduring memory of the Dragons in recent times are images of clearing the ruck with Hunt, Clune and Norman leaping into the air or reaching down to their ankles to grab balls at first receiver. That and wayward balls thrown behind them or bouncing around somewhere between first and second receivers. Or balls thrown to flat-footed forwards... or running forwards who receive the ball so flat that the poor bastards barely have time to catch the ball -let alone think what they can do with it- before being crunched by the opposition.

I'm sure McCulloch was signed to address all these issues.

And one last point: McCulloch too old??!!! Give me a break, fellas!

Didn't Cam Smith show us that you don't have to be charging though defensive lines and running for over 100m a game to be one of the best the world has ever seen??? And how old is he?

A simple jog to the ruck, the odd deft kick, game awareness and a great pass worked a treat for him. Surely our bloke McCulloch isn't too old for that? Obviously, Griffin thinks he's up for it. He's there to make the team function. No more and no less.

Not that I'm knockin' passion, effort, work ethic and club loyalty........just sayin'.

You certainly ticked all the boxes Bayside , that is exactly the reason that Griffin went after McCullough as you have said to feed the player the ball as a dear old mum would feed the bub with the spoon .

The Josh Kerr try on Saturday night was a perfect example of that , a look to his right where the big boy was waiting and bingo straight through the cowboys pack to score the try . Not much actually running with the ball , however he was not bought by Griffin as a battering ram , but to actually control our attack when within striking distance of the try line .
 

Illusion

Juniors
Messages
500
You certainly ticked all the boxes Bayside , that is exactly the reason that Griffin went after McCullough as you have said to feed the player the ball as a dear old mum would feed the bub with the spoon .

The Josh Kerr try on Saturday night was a perfect example of that , a look to his right where the big boy was waiting and bingo straight through the cowboys pack to score the try . Not much actually running with the ball , however he was not bought by Griffin as a battering ram , but to actually control our attack when within striking distance of the try line .
Smart player and looks right at home with us ...... At this stage not losing too much with McInnes out .... as I have said McCullough seems a bit smarter and wiser ...... due to his experience and age ......
 

Inisai Toga

Juniors
Messages
781
Agree BD 100%

You covered his playing weaknesses perfectly

Critically as captain he led us to failure as well

And his character/judgment weaknesses were there for all to see
in his simpering over his failed benefactor’s inglorious

(but oh so exhilarating)
sacking

Seeya mate
The captaincy of the Dragons was a gift you dishonoured

How interesting it is
that most players we’ve let go have failed to excite elsewhere

Kevin Ryan & Gordon Tallis IMO we’re our most regrettable losses in my time
and possibly Michael OConnor....?
 

ChocOConnor

Juniors
Messages
294
Griffin may not be up there with the Bennett’s and Bellamy s of the coaching caper but one thing he is, is that he is a rugby league coach. One who can adjust his tactics to what he has available to him. We may not set the comp alight with him but it will be a refreshing change that we can at least be game smart in games. Unlike that bone head who just kept up the one off for 5 a kick down field tactic. Like o said once before in 2018 we were flying went to Penrith and his team dismantled that dragons outfit with ease without Cleary. He knew how to break us down and Mcmoron claimed it as an kfc night
 

Illusion

Juniors
Messages
500
Griffin may not be up there with the Bennett’s and Bellamy s of the coaching caper but one thing he is, is that he is a rugby league coach. One who can adjust his tactics to what he has available to him. We may not set the comp alight with him but it will be a refreshing change that we can at least be game smart in games. Unlike that bone head who just kept up the one off for 5 a kick down field tactic. Like o said once before in 2018 we were flying went to Penrith and his team dismantled that dragons outfit with ease without Cleary. He knew how to break us down and Mcmoron claimed it as an kfc night
Yep Mary had lost the plot ..... Come to think of it , he never had it to lose in the first place .....
 

giboz71

First Grade
Messages
6,918
Watching Luciano Leilua stink it up with his brother against the Roosters on the weekend made me glad he's gone too.

Joey may have been the one dropped, but mark my words, Luc was just as bad. The first Tedesco try, Luc was right beside his brother, standing there like fools with no urgency, ball watching, not rushing back so Morris can put the cross kick through to Teddy with no one around. Z grade stuff really.

He wouldn't have lasted 5 secs with Hook, not sure how Madge hasn't dropped him too.
 
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