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Salary Cap promotes mediocrity

fred95

Juniors
Messages
274
The thread starter is of the deluded opinion that it would help the roosters. Maybe help them finish third or fourth every year. Ad you rightly point out Melbourne and Brisbane would dominate.
I'm sure that Melbourne would have hundreds of thousands (as would the Roosters ) of talented young players to draw from. Melbourne do dominate,unlike the Broncos who have the greatest pool of players in the Rugby League world...... Whats your point Pete.
 

d3@t3h

Juniors
Messages
642
The salary cap is not promoting mediocrity. It is the fact that there is no consequence for being utterly shit.

Im not saying relegate to the NSW CUPZZZZ but at least starting the next season with minus points as a penalty for not making the finals this season would be enough.
 

fred95

Juniors
Messages
274
If clubs cant produce talent, then they woudl either need to adapt by implementing changes to their club, or ping off.

Not like you need a junior base, look at Melbourne. There would need to be restrictions in place as to how many players you get on your books at junior level etc so that rich clubs don't just go and buy every junior, but the system def needs changing.
It's a professional game meaning money holds sway of the players you can or can't buy,in spite of the fact Melbourne and to a much smaller degree Brisbane, have tasted success since their inception into rugby league has much to do with the fact that both clubs are owned by the corporation that runs the game and has the most money.....Grow up.
 

Lambretta

First Grade
Messages
8,689
The salary cap should discourage cluns from being able to buy players from other clubs. The problem as it works now is that it punishes teams for developing players. There should be WAY more discounts for players developed by the club.

I agree with this general sentiment, but where is the starting point?

Is it players that played at a junior level, or Toyota Cup or reserve grade or who have never played first grade for another club?
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
I don't think your comment is right.

Junior development should be the responsibility of the league, not individual clubs. That is how it needs to go in a national competition. Arguments about junior development around here are based on traditional thinking that does not apply in a modern business/sport such as ther NRL. The intro of the commission may actually see this happen.

Ther draft promotes retention because players need to make a decision as to where they will play their football, and whether they will keep the control of that decison and stay where they are, or lose that control and enter the draft with the possibility of ending up anywhere. Players tend to stay with their clubs as the successful clubs are getting the high draft picks, likleyhood of a move means they will probably end up at a less successful club.

Rookie drafts are where the clubs then have to build from and this is where the improvement comes. If you ask any 17 year old that he can play NRL next year, but not necessarily with the club where he played his junior football, what do you think he will say???? Kids want to play NRL, they don't care which club gives them the opportunity.

Your opinion makes sense coming from a supporter of a club that doesn't have a history with league nor develop juniors, and no offence intended by that whatsoever.

But football clubs and leagues clubs in Sydney and QLD invest a lot of money into their junior development areas in the hope that these juniors turn into first grade footballers for them in the future. Clubs like Penrith, Saints, Tigers, Broncos, Eels, well pretty much all clubs go out to promote the game in their local area and encourage kids to take up league. The clubs that do that shouldn't be punished for doing so.

If you implement a draft system then why would clubs waste time and money investing in the junior system when they knowing any club has free pick at them.
 

jason taylor

Bench
Messages
3,516
Your opinion makes sense coming from a supporter of a club that doesn't have a history with league nor develop juniors, and no offence intended by that whatsoever.

But football clubs and leagues clubs in Sydney and QLD invest a lot of money into their junior development areas in the hope that these juniors turn into first grade footballers for them in the future. Clubs like Penrith, Saints, Tigers, Broncos, Eels, well pretty much all clubs go out to promote the game in their local area and encourage kids to take up league. The clubs that do that shouldn't be punished for doing so.

If you implement a draft system then why would clubs waste time and money investing in the junior system when they knowing any club has free pick at them.

He reckons that the League will fund the development, not the clubs.
 

RHCP

Bench
Messages
4,784
Long service cap exemptions should be given to players who've been with the club for 7, 10, and 15 years, with the years beginning from their first involvement in the club whether it be Matts, Ball, NYC or first grade imo.
 

Lambretta

First Grade
Messages
8,689
Your opinion makes sense coming from a supporter of a club that doesn't have a history with league nor develop juniors, and no offence intended by that whatsoever.

But football clubs and leagues clubs in Sydney and QLD invest a lot of money into their junior development areas in the hope that these juniors turn into first grade footballers for them in the future. Clubs like Penrith, Saints, Tigers, Broncos, Eels, well pretty much all clubs go out to promote the game in their local area and encourage kids to take up league. The clubs that do that shouldn't be punished for doing so.

If you implement a draft system then why would clubs waste time and money investing in the junior system when they knowing any club has free pick at them.

Junior clubs dont have to have a relationship to a certain club to produce players. Look at English football, American football and AFL. Three different codes that have three different approaches to nuturing young talent for their own games.

In England local clubs develop their own players for their own benefits ie to compete in their own local leagues. The fact they're not alligned doesnt mean the kids dont play the game but there is no draft system in place. The clubs only take over development when they sign kids.

In the USA the Universities are the training grounds and they have their own competitions and their own financial reasons to becoming a success and they do have a draft system.

In AFL the junior development is done once again for the benefit of the local clubs and they do have a draft system in place to take the players into the professional arena.

But the over riding commonality is that the kids play the games and people train them and encourage them to partake regardless of who pays.

Even if there were a draft in league kids would still want to play because they would still want success. Clubs would still produce players as they'd want the success that attracts other kids to their organisation even if they werent directly linked to a club and were funded by the organisation overall.


But clubs also promote themselves in the community for other reasons than obtaining players. Not all kids who play the game make the grade. In fact, most fail. But almost everyone who plays or played the game follows the game and supports a team. Teams get revenue from support, so there is still a reason for them to get into the community and get involved with junior development and schools promoting the code and playing the code.

A draft shouldnt mean the end of junior development. It hasnt with any other code thats had one.
 

eozsmiles

Bench
Messages
3,392
But football clubs and leagues clubs in Sydney and QLD invest a lot of money into their junior development areas in the hope that these juniors turn into first grade footballers for them in the future. Clubs like Penrith, Saints, Tigers, Broncos, Eels, well pretty much all clubs go out to promote the game in their local area and encourage kids to take up league. The clubs that do that shouldn't be punished for doing so.

^^^ this

Every player in the comp was found and developed by a club. They go to extreme lengths to find the next star and try to get them up to 1st grade. Clubs have to win footy games to make their money and survive in the comp. So as long as there are kids, there will be clubs developing them. They won't get to keep them all because there are too many kids in some areas to all make it to 1st grade for their local team. But the good ones will all end up somewhere.
 

Jankuloski

Juniors
Messages
799
Way to demonstrate your point by a game where a lot of top talent was out after 20mins ..

Wanna see a world without salary cap? Try soccer..
 

onthetryline

Juniors
Messages
38
Your opinion makes sense coming from a supporter of a club that doesn't have a history with league nor develop juniors, and no offence intended by that whatsoever.

LMFAO! Yeah no offense but your club has been stealing juniors since the mid 80's haha.
 

Noa

First Grade
Messages
9,029
Your opinion makes sense coming from a supporter of a club that doesn't have a history with league nor develop juniors, and no offence intended by that whatsoever.

But football clubs and leagues clubs in Sydney and QLD invest a lot of money into their junior development areas in the hope that these juniors turn into first grade footballers for them in the future. Clubs like Penrith, Saints, Tigers, Broncos, Eels, well pretty much all clubs go out to promote the game in their local area and encourage kids to take up league. The clubs that do that shouldn't be punished for doing so.

If you implement a draft system then why would clubs waste time and money investing in the junior system when they knowing any club has free pick at them.

Such a weird mentality.You only have these juniors because the clubs were set up in large population bases, doesnt give you a god-given right to keep them all. And yeah you spend money on them but what other way are you going to engage with the community. In the end you nearly always get first shot at them anyway so its no-one elses fault that you continually choose the wrong ones. And if there werent clubs with smaller bases taking these kids theyd go play another sport or be lost to the game all together.
 

Doomednow

Bench
Messages
3,133
Drafts do not make sense to me. Soulless, encourages tanking. Rewards should be in place for clubs who develop their own juniors. Maybe clubs with smaller junior bases could have a special condition where they can get more marquee player discounts. You would end up with two (or more) different concessions packages available to teams depending on what conditions are met.
 

POPEYE

Coach
Messages
11,397
The salary cap is being used like religious fanaticism. Something instituted to prevent destruction manipulated to further the career of lazy administrators.

The cap should be used to prevent rich clubs from luring players that another club has done the hard yards in producing.

The right way to reward clubs for perserverance is either charge other clubs huge sums in transfer fees or let them reward loyalty.
 

Raiderdave

First Grade
Messages
7,990
our best teams in 2011 are not as good .. relative to the best teams of 1991
no question ...

but our worst teams of 2011 .. are a heck of a lot better then the worst teams of 1991

same number of quality players today
just spread between 16 teams .... not 4

fans vote with their feet , they want to know their team is some chance of winning most weeks ... no game is a foregone conclusion
in 2011 this is the case

in 1991.... there were heaps of games not worth watching due to the imbalance of the rosters
& crowds stayed away

while I am a Raiders fan & our great sides of the past were legendary
I much prefer 2011
not a shadow of a doubt.
 

Ike E Bear

Juniors
Messages
1,998
Agree with this, squads probably need to be another 6-8 players bigger so we dont have to rely on young players as much. Its not your top level or top young players that are the problem, theyre better then ever, its we dont have the space for those solid, mid-level veterans in the cap.

I should clarify I support a cap just not at its current level

The kids would still be there.

The clubs would prioritise their cap allocation into the 17 players they expect/hope will take the field in most games. The other 13-15 players would still be a mix of kids, has-beens and never-really-weres.

I would think a better quality open-age second-tier competition would be more helpful.

As long as the cap is the same for everyone, economics will help to spread the talent. Players change clubs for opportunity and money.

Edit - That said, I think exemptions are the way to make the cap more dynamic and less restrictive on clubs that develop their own. Exemptions for juniors (in terms of development, not geography) and long-serving players, and a loading for recruiting from another NRL club.
 
Last edited:

POPEYE

Coach
Messages
11,397
The kids would still be there.

The clubs would prioritise their cap allocation into the 17 players they expect/hope will take the field in most games. The other 13-15 players would still be a mix of kids, has-beens and never-really-weres.

I would think a better quality open-age second-tier competition would be more helpful.

As long as the cap is the same for everyone, economics will help to spread the talent. Players change clubs for opportunity and money.

Edit - That said, I think exemptions are the way to make the cap more dynamic and less restrictive on clubs that develop their own. Exemptions for juniors (in terms of development, not geography) and long-serving players, and a loading for recruiting from another NRL club.

You edited your post perfectly
 

Pierced Soul

First Grade
Messages
9,202
clubs should not be punished for producing talent. They should be exempt from the cap. This would make teams focus more on the development of younger players.

I agree, however i don't want to see kids of 14 signed up on $500 contracts so clubs can hoard as many of them as possible.

if a player has been developed by a club that club should be rewarded


Already tried and challenged in court.

i always wondered about this, it was essentially Terry Hill vs the NSWRL. my understanding is the AFL draft is accepted and not challenged by players, but theoretically if it were challenged in the same manner it should fail as well.

could the draft be slightly re-written to stop players being able to challenge it? could it be something the NRL implements which states "under our contract this is our rule so you either accept it or don't play in the NRL"?
 
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