Samoa

[Clarkent]

Samoa this year is a warning about investing in hyperbole over fleeting success by heritage teams. And Scotland too. The 4N in which Samoa performed quite well and last year's when Scotland were competitive raised expectations and misleadingly suggested these tier two teams were ready to be competitive regularly.

This year Tonga is the team everyone is getting carried away with. But if they don't keep all their heritage players they are just as capable of dropping back to being only modestly competitive.

The only sustainable means of making second tier nations competitive with the big three on a regular basis is to help them keep their best players long term or, better still, develop home grown players of increasing quality. That's why PNG, France and Fiji are still the best prospects of joining the big three in the future.

I actually don't agree with this... Tonga has a very good chance of making the final... I highly doubt the tongan players will return to the kiwi squad after this world cup... I think the kiwis will be hurting from this... Samoa did well in the 4N not long ago... But they have been stopped by the nrl to carry on that momentum by clubs not releasing players... Samoa for me has been the most disappointing team of this world cup... But that all changed when the kiwis got knocked out by Fiji...

 

[Clarkent]

As much as I love the kiwis getting there ass kicked this is not gonna be a good look for the international game... For it to survive the kiwis needs to be competitive!

 

[Stallion]

As much as I love the kiwis getting there ass kicked this is not gonna be a good look for the international game... For it to survive the kiwis needs to be competitive!

Dissagree. More upsets will invigorate the game internationally. It will create an impetus for the kiwis to lift their game. I think kiwi public may get on board a bit more as a result of the perceived embarrassment.

 

[Clarkent]

Dissagree. More upsets will invigorate the game internationally. It will create an impetus for the kiwis to lift their game. I think kiwi public may get on board a bit more as a result of the perceived embarrassment.

Rugby league in nz is not that big... The last thing we need is losing more fans in nz... Beating the kangaroos will be a huge bonus... Cause then they'll start taking the international game more serious and start investing in it... I'm going for Tonga and Fiji all the way and hope they do us all proud

 

[Force]

NZ fans are bandwagon supporters. If the Warriors do well they'll jump on board, if they suck they'll be throwing shade. But we do support our teams if they do well, however, people could see this Kiwi team on a collision course for some time so are right now throwing shade.

 

[expansionist]

Samoa... such a disappointment.

This time (as has been said above) I am adamant the old argument (they just havent got the halves) has been procen to be absolute BS.

They had the halves; they either werent used correctly, or played poorly.

The Samoan halves were among the best 2nd tier - however they were selected out of position, or not selected or played poorly. We criticise Kidwell for not using players on the bench, look at Samoa?

The real lack of strength in this Samoan side was across the park from 1-13. Matt Wright (who i questioned the selection of) was one of the few players who played with heart. when a winger comes infield to put big hits on you know something is wrong.midfield.

Now I am not an ex player, nor a super coach - BUT when a team plays like that it means their not being utilised correctly -and for mine this all comes back to Parrish.

Oh and the worst indictment? My 8 year old said their Siva Tau was flat and they even didnt look up for it before kick off..

 

[Clarkent]

Samoa... such a disappointment.

This time (as has been said above) I am adamant the old argument (they just havent got the halves) has been procen to be absolute BS.

They had the halves; they either werent used correctly, or played poorly.

The Samoan halves were among the best 2nd tier - however they were selected out of position, or not selected or played poorly. We criticise Kidwell for not using players on the bench, look at Samoa?

The real lack of strength in this Samoan side was across the park from 1-13. Matt Wright (who i questioned the selection of) was one of the few players who played with heart. when a winger comes infield to put big hits on you know something is wrong.midfield.

Now I am not an ex player, nor a super coach - BUT when a team plays like that it means their not being utilised correctly -and for mine this all comes back to Parrish.

Oh and the worst indictment? My 8 year old said their Siva Tau was flat and they even didnt look up for it before kick off..

Willie Mason was right when he said they need to start over... Get rid of the and start with the new... And your right Samoa did have the best halves out of the tier 2 nations... They should've started with Nu Brown and Roberts in the halves every game to get the combination going but he kept changing them every game... But even that wouldn't help the samoan team I'm friends with most of the players on Instagram and they looked like they were on holiday in Samoa before the world cup... And that all starts with the coaching staff... They need to put there foot down and get the players to be disciplined with there training... In saying that they need to get rid of the coach... Lebanon got Brad filter which is what the islanders need... I hope they get a high caliber coach like andrew John's he can bring so much to the island nations... This samoan team is one of the weakest in recent years but they still should've preformed and put up a fight... For me they we're the biggest disappointment in this world cup...But with a full strength squad they could be strong or even better then the tongan team they have right now

 

[Springs09]

As much as I love the kiwis getting there ass kicked this is not gonna be a good look for the international game... For it to survive the kiwis needs to be competitive!

Rubbish. Didn't take long for this crap to come out.

Aussies, Kiwis, Poms winning everything = bad look for the international game.

Aussies, Kiwis, Poms not winning everything = bad look for the international game.

There's not much else the Kiwis could have done over the last ten years to win fans. They've won the last three tournaments held in Aus/NZ and took the world no.1 title off Australia for a while. The last two years have been awful yes but what's happened is the Kiwis have stopped punching above their weight and have lived up to the NZ choker's tag that the All Blacks had from 1991-2007.

 

[Force]

Samoa... such a disappointment.

This time (as has been said above) I am adamant the old argument (they just havent got the halves) has been procen to be absolute BS.

They had the halves; they either werent used correctly, or played poorly.

The Samoan halves were among the best 2nd tier - however they were selected out of position, or not selected or played poorly. We criticise Kidwell for not using players on the bench, look at Samoa?

The real lack of strength in this Samoan side was across the park from 1-13. Matt Wright (who i questioned the selection of) was one of the few players who played with heart. when a winger comes infield to put big hits on you know something is wrong.midfield.

Now I am not an ex player, nor a super coach - BUT when a team plays like that it means their not being utilised correctly -and for mine this all comes back to Parrish.

Oh and the worst indictment? My 8 year old said their Siva Tau was flat and they even didnt look up for it before kick off..

Samoa had the better tier 2 halves?.......they have crap halves....Ben Roberts, Joseph Paulo and two inexperienced halves in Nu Brown and Jarome Luai....mate they had the worst halves of the tier 2 nations. Lebanon had the best with Farrah and Moses even Tonga (although not good) had better halves with Lolohea and Hingano. The best Samoa halves combination werent at the tournament, that is Anthony Milford who the Broncos stopped from participating in the World Cup and Tyrone May who was injured.

 

[expansionist]

in Nu Brown and Luai they have quality - and in Roberts they have make or break and experience. Nu Brown i wouldnt call inexperienced either actually.

Youve just highlighted the problem with the halves in the tournament though - lack of stability. Game 1 he named Paulo at 5/8th? 4 games and 4 different halves pairings doesnt help anyone.

In any case my argument is that the whole team didnt fire, they didnt lose their games in the halves = they lost it where they would normally be considered strong - upfront.

 

[Irish-bulldog]

They looked fat, slow , unfit, and poorly coached, no direction, looked like a holiday for Samoa not a World Cup let’s bd honest

 

[Force]

in Nu Brown and Luai they have quality - and in Roberts they have make or break and experience. Nu Brown i wouldnt call inexperienced either actually.

Youve just highlighted the problem with the halves in the tournament though - lack of stability. Game 1 he named Paulo at 5/8th? 4 games and 4 different halves pairings doesnt help anyone.

In any case my argument is that the whole team didnt fire, they didnt lose their games in the halves = they lost it where they would normally be considered strong - upfront.

They were chopped and changed because they were all crap. Even their teammates had no confidence in them, you can tell this when the outside backs start kicking the ball on the 5th tackle instead of passing to their halves. Leilua did that a few times.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Rubbish. Didn't take long for this crap to come out.

Aussies, Kiwis, Poms winning everything = bad look for the international game.

Aussies, Kiwis, Poms not winning everything = bad look for the international game.

There's not much else the Kiwis could have done over the last ten years to win fans. They've won the last three tournaments held in Aus/NZ and took the world no.1 title off Australia for a while. The last two years have been awful yes but what's happened is the Kiwis have stopped punching above their weight and have lived up to the NZ choker's tag that the All Blacks had from 1991-2007.

I was in the camp that NZ loosing to Fiji was bad for the game but you make some very good points here.

 

[Perth Red]

Rugby league in nz is not that big... The last thing we need is losing more fans in nz... Beating the kangaroos will be a huge bonus... Cause then they'll start taking the international game more serious and start investing in it... I'm going for Tonga and Fiji all the way and hope they do us all proud

TBF I didn't see much change in their appeal after winning the world cup and 4 nations so not convinced success makes a huge difference. Arguably having Tonga, Samoa and Fiji more successful can counteract the weakness of NZ having lean years. Hopefully this will shake them up at a club and country level and force them into some positive changes. Reality is there is never going to be high quality FT leagues in any other countries in the foreseeable future so having dual nationality players choosing these smaller nations remains our best hope of competitive sides.

Samoa have been a disappointment and on paper should have performed better.

 

[Springs09]

I was in the camp that NZ loosing to Fiji was bad for the game but you make some very good points here.

We can't have it both ways.

First rugby league fans say we need the smaller nations to be competitive so we have a legitimate World Cup and International scene.

Then when it happens it's a disaster because we need Australia, NZ and England to dominate so the game stays strong in our strongest areas or whatever.

Just like our RL fans to always look at the negative.

The NZ public are generally awful to the Kiwis really. Yes, there should be more tests in NZ. Yes, Kidwell and some of the selections were terrible. But the Kiwis have been outstanding for the better part of 12 or so years. The All Blacks dominate and the Kiwis get very little, yet despite that they have won several tournaments against Australia, where the Kangaroos get the lion's share of the rugby talent. By rights the Kangaroos should beat the Kiwis by 50 every time they play. But instead of celebrating these accomplishments, the NZ public are congratulatory for a short period then go back to treating the Kiwis as a joke. Meanwhile the All Blacks choked their way through 4 World Cups they should have won easily and they were still regarded as heroes the entire time.

We've had a bunch of Kiwis come over to play footy over here and none of them cared about the Kiwis. Some followed Samoa, but most of them followed the All Blacks (even though they didn't play nor watch Union) and Queensland.

I preferred an Aus v NZ semi-final but oh well, Fiji deserve to go through. That's what happens in World Cups. Now that NZ lose to a minnow and we don't have the predictable big 3 + random in the semis which everyone hated, the world is going to end and league is dead in NZ.

To be fair, us in Australia can be just as bad. I remember Mal declaring Origin dead if QLD lost 4 series straight in 2006.

 

[Springs09]

TBF I didn't see much change in their appeal after winning the world cup and 4 nations so not convinced success makes a huge difference. Arguably having Tonga, Samoa and Fiji more successful can counteract the weakness of NZ having lean years. Hopefully this will shake them up at a club and country level and force them into some positive changes. Reality is there is never going to be high quality FT leagues in any other countries in the foreseeable future so having dual nationality players choosing these smaller nations remains our best hope of competitive sides.

Samoa have been a disappointment and on paper should have performed better.

We probably have more chance of gaining popularity in the islands and the island communities than in NZ. Tonga got Taumalolo to play for them and they celebrated more than NZ did when the Kiwis won so many times and were world no.1.

 

[Perth Red]

I guess when you don't play a game at home for 4 years you can excuse the publics apathy towards the Kiwis!

 

[Springs09]

I guess when you don't play a game at home for 4 years you can excuse the publics apathy towards the Kiwis!

Bullshit you can.

 

[Force]

We probably have more chance of gaining popularity in the islands and the island communities than in NZ. Tonga got Taumalolo to play for them and they celebrated more than NZ did when the Kiwis won so many times and were world no.1.

I recall Semi Radradra when he was scouted by the Eels playing Sevens for Fiji said part of the reason he made the switch was because of Jarryd Hayne. So lets hope theres many more Radradra's seeing their Fijian League team do a number on NZ and turn to league too. Tonga have got a lot of support in Tonga too so hope they follow suit aswell.