Second tier cap

[Poupou Escobar]

So Gus Gould (or some merkin pretending to be him) on Twitter just confirmed my understanding of the second tier cap.

(If any merkin can tell me how to properly quote tweets it would be much appreciated. I'd ask Gus but I don't want to burn the relationship.)

Pou: Dear @gusgould91, can you explain the 2nd tier salary cap for us fans? Why would a club restrict the number of appearances a player makes?

Gus: @PoupouEscobar can only use $440k worth of players who sit outside top 25 SC. Once exhausted, you are restricted to using just those players

Pou: Thanks @gusgould91 So does that mean there's no difference whether a second tier player plays one game or twenty?

Gus: @PoupouEscobar if $440k exhausted need permission to play 2nd tier player cover injury. Once player returns can't use 2nd tier player again

Pou: Gus you rock! (or words to that effect)

So is this clear to the rest of you? Once a second tier player is used in first grade he counts under the second tier salary cap. It's not until that second tier salary cap is used up that you need to aks permission from the NRL to use another player, and as soon as the injured player he is replacing returns, you can no longer use that second tier player.

The only way Junior Paulo is being excluded by the second tier salary cap is if:

A. He is outside the top 25 salaries at the club, and

B. Our second tier salary cap was already used up before round five (when we had only used 22 players in first grade)

It's a fair assumption that our highest paid second tier player is earning less than the top 25 minimum salary ($77.5k), meaning we should be able to use at least ($440k / $77.5k = 5) second tier players. If we had already used five before round five then we had used a maximum of (22 - 5 = 17) top 25 players at the time.

This means we had (25 - 17 = 8) members of the top 25 who hadn't played first grade this year. Who could those eight be? I can only come up with:

Mossop (certainly)
Loko (certainly)
Morgan (certainly)

Hunt (probably)
Santi (shouldn't be but the fact we got him off the Tigers says he probably is)

Pritchard (possibly)
Lasalo (possibly, and included here because he hadn't played NRL at the time)
Faraimo (possibly)
Pewhairangi (possibly)

So if all the certainlies and probablies and three of the possiblies are in the top 25 then Junior Paulo would definitely be a second tier player. But what are the chances of that? Junior Paulo was playing first grade and in some demand when we re-signed him. Lasalo and Faraimo were contracted well after Paulo's retention, meaning they were in less demand and also that we were less likely to have top 25 spots open. But then so was Dave Gower.

The deciding vote goes to the 25 man 'NRL squad' published in the NRL's official Big League pre-season guide:

Allgood
Gower
Harrison*
Hayne
Hopoate
Hunt
Kelly
Loko
Lussick
Mannah
Moimoi
Morgan
Mossop
Norman
Paulo
Paulo
Peats
Sandow
Santi
Sio
Smith
Tanginoa
Terepo
Tonga
Toutai

* Left at about the same time as Ma'u was extended, so probably replaced by him in the top 25

 

[Maroubra Eel]

I saw that. Yes it is really Gus.

 

[oldmancraigy]

Is it possible that Harrison is still part of our top 25?

ie: we're still paying him?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Is it possible that Harrison is still part of our top 25?

ie: we're still paying him?

Then what's the point of releasing a bloke mid-contract if he doesn't free up a top 25 spot? There's the extra cap space but what can you do with it if you can't bring another player in?

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Then what's the point of releasing a bloke mid-contract if he doesn't free up a top 25 spot? There's the extra cap space but what can you do with it if you can't bring another player in?

For one, you could extend an existing Top 25 player and have more flexibility in terms of how much was counted towards the 2014 cap.

 

[emjaycee]

I heard the other night that we are requesting weekly that we get dispensation for Ben Smith being injured.

Wonder if we are also getting/asking for it for Loko and/or Mossop and whether they count as they were not injured this year.

Pou, can you check this with Gus for me?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I don't want to harass him mate.

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

I heard the other night that we are requesting weekly that we get dispensation for Ben Smith being injured.

Wonder if we are also getting/asking for it for Loko and/or Mossop and whether they count as they were not injured this year.

Pou, can you check this with Gus for me?

Both Loko and Mossop got injured after the inception of their current contract (well they certainly played football after those contracts were executed), so I'm not sure that it should matter that the injuries didn't happen during this season? But I might be wrong.

 

[I bleed blue & gold]

Both Loko and Mossop got injured after the inception of their current contract (well they certainly played football after those contracts were executed), so I'm not sure that it should matter that the injuries didn't happen during this season? But I might be wrong.

I'd like to think that you are right.

 

[murraymob]

I heard the other night that we are requesting weekly that we get dispensation for Ben Smith being injured.

Wonder if we are also getting/asking for it for Loko and/or Mossop and whether they count as they were not injured this year.

Pou, can you check this with Gus for me?

How would Gus know what parra are doing .He can only answer general cap question or things to do with penrith

 

[84 Baby]

Wait... so what you are saying is Jnr is in our top 25? So why couldn't he play for Samoa?

 

[strider]

I heard the other night that we are requesting weekly that we get dispensation for Ben Smith being injured.

Wonder if we are also getting/asking for it for Loko and/or Mossop and whether they count as they were not injured this year.

Pou, can you check this with Gus for me?

perhaps we are just trying to work the rules a bit with this? - trying to use a non-25 player and avoid him counting now and keeping the options open further down the track

so maybe we aren't necessarily stuck right now, just trying to make the most of the situation

 

[strider]

thanks for asking pou - some of your best work since the LBA thread

but it didn't really explain the question of how the $440K is accumulated (ie per game somhow or not???) - good of Gus to respond to a totally nuffy such as yourself tho :thumn

 

[Poupou Escobar]

How would Gus know what parra are doing .He can only answer general cap question or things to do with penrith

I'm sure that's what he meant - to aks Gus about the generalities so we could try and apply it to our understanding of Parra's situation.

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

thanks for asking pou - some of your best work since the LBA thread

but it didn't really explain the question of how the $440K is accumulated (ie per game somhow or not???) - good of Gus to respond to a totally nuffy such as yourself tho :thumn

I think the meaning of the exchange above is that the 440k limit refers to the annual salary of the 2nd tier players who play at least 1 NRL game......before considering exemptions obviously.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Wait... so what you are saying is Jnr is in our top 25? So why couldn't he play for Samoa?

Because he's not in Samoa's top 17.

 

[Maroubra Eel]

Poupou isn't a nuffy. I doubt Gould would respond to a nuffy.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

thanks for asking pou - some of your best work since the LBA thread

but it didn't really explain the question of how the $440K is accumulated (ie per game somhow or not???) - good of Gus to respond to a totally nuffy such as yourself tho :thumn

It's possible that they use a fraction of the players contract but then you'd never use up the entire $440k in a season, and clubs wouldn't be aksing for dispensation when they get to (30 - top 25 = 5) players.

Also, Gus talks about number of players rather than just number of salary cap dollars used.

 

[strider]

yeah true ... good work pou

is this the first time you've asked someone a question on twitter and they haven't banned you?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Poupou isn't a nuffy. I doubt Gould would respond to a nuffy.

Well I've only got 11 followers, so by any objective measure I surely am a nuffy.

But I know Gus cares about the game, and particularly about the fans. So I figured if I was polite and direct and didn't ask for a retweet he might reply. Looks I was right for once.