Should Red V Mebers have voting rights?

[Willow]

True but we cant touch the Illawarra side, is that correct ??

You mean the current JV business arrangement with WIN Corp?

 

[Willow]

I do recall, in years gone by, that we tried to recruit forum members who were leagues club members to unite and make some changes. Scuttled by Saunders or Robinson? Perhaps we could do something similar with more cloak and dagger.

It's not easy. But challenges to the status quo have happened before, and even these 'failed' attempts have brought some change.

 

[Willow]

I don't understand how or why supporters of a football team should have a direct say in how that team is run or managed.

In my mind if you've made a conscious decision to be a supporter of that team (which we all have at one point in time) you base that decision on the fact that you agree that the team is playing well or being run well or at least to a standard where you can see it changing for the better.

If the above is not the case, then your right as someone who has made the decision to support the team, is to no longer support the team. Perhaps you'll find another team that my second paragraph applies to and you then can rightfully change your mind and support that team instead.

Whilst I understand many of us have our own personal reasons for being supporters and deep rooted emotional connections to the team, unfortunately this doesn't entitle you to anything. I liken this to other things in life, such as if you're a loyal customer of a particular business and that business changes the way it does things for what you perceive to be for the worse, do you then get to run the business yourself and change it? The answer is no, instead you will more than likely find another business that does things how you would like them.

So overall I believe it's everyone's own choice to support this team, if you're not happy with the direction it's going then reevaluate that choice to save yourself the heart ache and frustration.

Supporters are one of the pillars of a successful Club. Some of the most successful Clubs in the world have a strong and active supporter base. And by active I mean they make sure they have a fair say in how their Club is run.

 

[I'm Hornby]

Supporters are one of the pillars of a successful Club. Some of the most successful Clubs in the world have a strong and active supporter base. And by active I mean they make sure they have a fair say in how their Club is run.

Would love to hear some examples in that case then?

 

[Willow]

Would love to hear some examples in that case then?

Sure. But I thought it was common knowledge. Real Madrid supporters are very influential, the Club actively acknowledge them and recognise their input. The fan boycott at Manchester United was big news last year. That's just off the top of my head

Any suggestion they these fans are just customers misses the point entirely.

 

[I'm Hornby]

Sure. But I thought it was common knowledge. Real Madrid supporters are very influential, the Club actively acknowledge them and recognise their input. The fan boycott at Manchester United was big news last year. That's just off the top of my head

Any suggestion they these fans are just customers misses the point entirely.

Not common to me as I'm not a big soccer fan so it was a genuine question sorry mate.

Regardless the two teams you've mentioned are part of a more widely followed sport and have supporters all over the globe and a plethora of wealthy backers at that.

Rugby League being predominantly an Australian Support, would have a lot more challenges if fans of teams were going to be empowered the same way Real Madrid supporters are.

Not to mention that Real Madrid was already a massive organisation before it empowered supporters, they had a few more assets than a leagues club, a couple of stadiums and a localised media company as their only financial backing.

My original point still stands that as human beings who make rational decisions, we can choose to not follow the club if we're so disgusted with it. The same way we can choose to do similar things in other facets of life.

 

[Willow]

Not common to me as I'm not a big soccer fan so it was a genuine question sorry mate.

Regardless the two teams you've mentioned are part of a more widely followed sport and have supporters all over the globe and a plethora of wealthy backers at that.

Rugby League being predominantly an Australian Support, would have a lot more challenges if fans of teams were going to be empowered the same way Real Madrid supporters are.

Not to mention that Real Madrid was already a massive organisation before it empowered supporters, they had a few more assets than a leagues club, a couple of stadiums and a localised media company as their only financial backing.

My original point still stands that as human beings who make rational decisions, we can choose to not follow the club if we're so disgusted with it. The same way we can choose to do similar things in other facets of life.

That's why I specifically said most successful clubs in "world ".

IMO there's nothing wrong with seeing how their supporters do things.

Your use of the word disgusted is a little OTT imo. When it comes to supporting their club, people are entitled to express themselves as they see fit. If that means a justified militant approach, then so he it.

 

[dannyt]

Not common to me as I'm not a big soccer fan so it was a genuine question sorry mate.

Regardless the two teams you've mentioned are part of a more widely followed sport and have supporters all over the globe and a plethora of wealthy backers at that.

Rugby League being predominantly an Australian Support, would have a lot more challenges if fans of teams were going to be empowered the same way Real Madrid supporters are.

Not to mention that Real Madrid was already a massive organisation before it empowered supporters, they had a few more assets than a leagues club, a couple of stadiums and a localised media company as their only financial backing.

My original point still stands that as human beings who make rational decisions, we can choose to not follow the club if we're so disgusted with it. The same way we can choose to do similar things in other facets of life.

You seem to equate rationality with supporting a team, and many cases, supporting said team since childhood.

I'm going with the honoured and often used study of n = 1. I'm an extremely rational person in my professional life and most aspects of my personal life. However, I will admit rationality goes out the door when it comes to my team. I'm that supporter who froths at the mouth when a penalty goes against us after an opposition player is obviously fouled. I'm that supporter who bitches and moans about how the club is managed, and then signs up the following year for Red V. To quote Michael Corleone "when I thought I was out, they drag me back in".

You say a supporter has the option of refusing to support a team if they don't agree how it's run. I tell you that ceasing my support of my team is akin to losing my right leg. A completely irrational concept stated by an otherwise rational person.

Despite my irrationality when it comes to supporting my team, I reserve the right to criticise decisions that I don't agree with and would welcome greater fan input, or at least a modicum of consultation, into my team.

 

[True_Believer]

I'm an extremely rational person in my professional life and most aspects of my personal life. However, I will admit rationality goes out the door when it comes to my team.

I guess for me it really depends on what is defined by "voting rights". If voting rights involves determining the day to day running of the club including team makeup/recruiting/selections/coaches, etc then for me it's a no.

The quote I've highlighted pretty much hit's the nail on the head. You need a level head when it comes to making decisions on this sort of thing and team support is about passion and emotion - traits that don't lend themselves very well to making rational decisions (as you've pointed out). Additionally, it would be impossible to make sensible decisions without knowing the full picture - which we as supporters will never be able to know. Hell, based on some of the comments in the forum this year, we'd be fielding a completely different team every week and we'd have a new coach every other week.

If on the other hand "voting rights" meant voting in board members every few years or voting on select choices presented to us by the board (like a referendum), then I could see that working.

 

[dannyt]

I guess for me it really depends on what is defined by "voting rights". If voting rights involves determining the day to day running of the club including team makeup/recruiting/selections/coaches, etc then for me it's a no.

The quote I've highlighted pretty much hit's the nail on the head. You need a level head when it comes to making decisions on this sort of thing and team support is about passion and emotion - traits that don't lend themselves very well to making rational decisions (as you've pointed out). Additionally, it would be impossible to make sensible decisions without knowing the full picture - which we as supporters will never be able to know. Hell, based on some of the comments in the forum this year, we'd be fielding a completely different team every week and we'd have a new coach every other week.

If on the other hand "voting rights" meant voting in board members every few years or voting on select choices presented to us by the board (like a referendum), then I could see that working.

Definitely the latter. I don't think any lunatic supporter like me should have a say in the day to day running of the club.

 

[possm]

If Red V Members were given the vote, it is likely that we would have more fans join as Red V Members, and possibly the Board members would be looking over their shoulders when considering important decisions.

 

[I see Dragons]

When half the franchise is privately owned why would you think some plonker with a few dollars for membership should get a say? If you are a member of the club that owns the other half you get a tenuous say albeit under gerrymandered circumstances. Although we are run like one, and play worse, we are not a park football team!

 

[SEAT 1A]

The club would fold before giving us peasants any power.

Remember, they told the Sydney Kings bloke to piss off.

 

[BBTB]

The club would fold before giving us peasants any power.

Remember, they told the Sydney Kings bloke to piss off.

Yeah and he offered 11.5mil
To take 50%.

 

[possm]

Yeah and he offered 11.5mil
To take 50%.

And then look what followed:
Mary kept his job even though the team was still performing poorly
Doust landed a job at St George Leagues Club
Craig Young gets the Chairman's job
WIN and The Gordon's got the funds that Illawarra owed them plus 50% ownership of the shares.
St George got screwed
SGI got nothing.

So, if St George took the Illawarra shares due to failure to honor financial commitments, and then sold them to Smith for 11.5m, the Gordens' would have been out 6m and St George we would have enough to fix up the Taj, build the best Centre of Excellence in the NRL, and buy the best coaching staff available at the time.