Should we just open Origin up to other nations?

[adamkungl]

And I'm saying they should make this choice well before they're 24.

16 would be ideal.

Fair enough. Personally I'm not against nation switching, with an appropriate stand-down period in between, which is currently not being enforced.

 

[Sackyhack]

I think it's unfair to state that ALL players want to get into SOO simply for the extra cash. The biggest issue is that at the moment, SOO is seen as the pinnacle of RL; surpassing even the international test scene. It can be unfair to players; who forge a love for the game at a very young age, and who at the time do not understand the concept of eligibility; as they watch in awe at the fury in which the Blues and Maroons belt into each other. Once they get older, they find out that no matter how good you are, you will never be allowed to play in the SOO. It would be akin to a jockey who dedicated his life to being small (or whatever it is they do :?); being told that for one reason or another, he wasn't allowed to race in the Melbourne Cup (I should point out that my hypothetical jockey is Australian because I'm sure there are other more illustrious horse races elsewhere in the world).

The problem is if your serious about your sport, you want to reach the top of your game and these guys "only" have an international level to aspire to. Now this is about the only sport in the world, where making the international team is seen as the 2nd tier down from the top; but that's the hard truth at the moment. I think there needs to be some consideration into starting to develop other representative games outside of SOO (Other states, nations); but IN NO WAY affecting the current SOO concept. Completely separate comps/series which have their own chances of creating the phenomenal aura and legendary stories which currently surround the SOO series. Give these young kids something to aspire to without having to be untrue to their home states/nations; which I think will make it all the more special for them as well.

 

[RecordBreakingMaroons.]

I think we should open up the Melbourne Cup so that camels can race in it.

It's unfair otherwise. How many camel trainers aspire to the pinnacle of racing, only to have their hopes and dreams dashed by an unfair restriction to a particular species.

Also the swimming races in the Olympics should be open to dolphins. Why should they be denied their chance to compete based solely on some designation that they fall outside of the qualifying requirements?

Yes, also those who have no connection with NSW and QLD should be able to play in State Of Origin. Why should State of Origin be so restrictive? It's unfair to all of the great players who don't even know that QLD and NSW exist, let alone that they have a competition.

:roll:

 

[Joker's Wild]

I think it's unfair to state that ALL players want to get into SOO simply for the extra cash. The biggest issue is that at the moment, SOO is seen as the pinnacle of RL; surpassing even the international test scene. It can be unfair to players; who forge a love for the game at a very young age, and who at the time do not understand the concept of eligibility; as they watch in awe at the fury in which the Blues and Maroons belt into each other. Once they get older, they find out that no matter how good you are, you will never be allowed to play in the SOO. It would be akin to a jockey who dedicated his life to being small (or whatever it is they do :?); being told that for one reason or another, he wasn't allowed to race in the Melbourne Cup (I should point out that my hypothetical jockey is Australian because I'm sure there are other more illustrious horse races elsewhere in the world).

The problem is if your serious about your sport, you want to reach the top of your game and these guys "only" have an international level to aspire to. Now this is about the only sport in the world, where making the international team is seen as the 2nd tier down from the top; but that's the hard truth at the moment. I think there needs to be some consideration into starting to develop other representative games outside of SOO (Other states, nations); but IN NO WAY affecting the current SOO concept. Completely separate comps/series which have their own chances of creating the phenomenal aura and legendary stories which currently surround the SOO series. Give these young kids something to aspire to without having to be untrue to their home states/nations; which I think will make it all the more special for them as well.

Creating a plastic comp wont work, it has to grow organically imo.

Do Nth and Sth NZ islanders have a real rivalry?

 

[Sackyhack]

Creating a plastic comp wont work, it has to grow organically imo.

Do Nth and Sth NZ islanders have a real rivalry?

I agree, it has to grow organically. I think there are rivalries everywhere; local competition levels (neighboring towns), regional levels, interstate etc. I would expect there would most definitely be some form of rivalry between Nth and Sth NZ.

I'm not saying any rivalry will grow into what SOO is today; but we at least have start development of other ideas at some point & then set the stage with a few different trials and see how it goes. We can't expect that a group of VIC born RL players are going to get together unofficially, and challenge WA to produce a team of locals to start playing against once a year, or can we??

I think it's essential to get other comps started if we want to protect the SOO idea in it's current form (NSW/QLD only); there's already too much bypassing and rule bending to try and get the best players into the game, regardless of where they come from or where their allegiances originally lie.

However, if you don't really care too much about the original concept of QLD grown vs NSW grown (which is pretty much out the window now anyway); and you just want to see the best against the best, then open it up to everyone. The competition then simply extends out to who can sign the better players, QLD or NSW.

 

[doogiehowser_md]

All Kiwi and English players should let the QLDers and NSWelshmen have their SOO and pull out of the NRL and go play Union, see how awesome the NRL is then.

 

[Hutty1986]

All Kiwi and English players should let the QLDers and NSWelshmen have their SOO and pull out of the NRL and go play Union, see how awesome the NRL is then.

It would still be pretty fantastic

 

[Iafeta]

Creating a plastic comp wont work, it has to grow organically imo.

Do Nth and Sth NZ islanders have a real rivalry?

They do have a rivalry... but, to me I had more of a rivalry with JAFA's. I'm also not sure if the South Island would be that competitive against the North Island. Part of State of Who Scouted Who First's attraction was its evenness.

 

[Eelectrica]

No Mal needs to quit deciding someone who once looked at Queensland on a map is a bloody Queenslander!!!
It's state Vs state. not we can rort the system better than the other mob.

 

[RedVee]

I agree, it has to grow organically. I think there are rivalries everywhere; local competition levels (neighboring towns), regional levels, interstate etc. I would expect there would most definitely be some form of rivalry between Nth and Sth NZ.

I'm not saying any rivalry will grow into what SOO is today; but we at least have start development of other ideas at some point & then set the stage with a few different trials and see how it goes. We can't expect that a group of VIC born RL players are going to get together unofficially, and challenge WA to produce a team of locals to start playing against once a year, or can we??

I think it's essential to get other comps started if we want to protect the SOO idea in it's current form (NSW/QLD only); there's already too much bypassing and rule bending to try and get the best players into the game, regardless of where they come from or where their allegiances originally lie.

However, if you don't really care too much about the original concept of QLD grown vs NSW grown (which is pretty much out the window now anyway); and you just want to see the best against the best, then open it up to everyone. The competition then simply extends out to who can sign the better players, QLD or NSW.

The other states do play each other. Don't think it is an 'Origin' selection though.

They do have a rivalry... but, to me I had more of a rivalry with JAFA's. I'm also not sure if the South Island would be that competitive against the North Island. Part of State of Who Scouted Who First's attraction was its evenness.

The NZRL bloke was speaking about Auckland Vs the rest - he had a term for them that I can't recall ATM.

 

[hitman82]

A well-funded (ie good match payments) series of NZ Euro + Maori vs a Pacific combined team is the obvious way to challenge the pull of origin.

It would provide some extra pay cheques for greedy f**kers like James "it was a career decision" Tamou, more high quality games for the public to enjoy - particularly of interest to NZ and the Island nations.

This would also allow (culturally identifying) Islanders of Pacific, Australian AND New Zealand birth and residency an option other than the "big two".

It would increase the quality of the NZ and Pacific teams through extra high level game time for our better players.

Looking at the number of Islanders coming through the NYC, 5 or 10 years down the track we could actually have a decent Southern Hemisphere international scene - IF something is done to allow them opportunities other than the black and white or green and gold jerseys...

Of course, NRL clubs would not release their players for a series like this.

P.S. Auckland vs the Rest is a laughable concept and is of zero interest to me.

 

[Ernest the Sheep]

It's amusing, the amount of hypocrisy there is over the origin eligibility rules. On one hand, we have calls for it to be open to non-Oz eligible players. Yet I've also heard emotive arguments about how allowing so and so player to participate is tantamount to stealing a jersey from a 'true' NSWer or Qlder. There's a lot of self serving nonsense spouted over the issue, which I suspect has a lot to do with the hidden agendas of the many who pontificate on the matter.

 

[RWB]

It's amusing, the amount of hypocrisy there is over the origin eligibility rules. On one hand, we have calls for it to be open to non-Oz eligible players. Yet I've also heard emotive arguments about how allowing so and so player to participate is tantamount to stealing a jersey from a 'true' NSWer or Qlder. There's a lot of self serving nonsense spouted over the issue, which I suspect has a lot to do with the hidden agendas of the many who pontificate on the matter.

How is different people having different opinions hypocrisy?

 

[Ernest the Sheep]

How is different people having different opinions hypocrisy?

but it is hypocrisy when the same person holds both views, subject to circumstance.

 

[Ernest the Sheep]

A well-funded (ie good match payments) series of NZ Euro + Maori vs a Pacific combined team is the obvious way to challenge the pull of origin.

the so called pull of origin is a myth, no matter how many times you tell yourself it's true. This mystical pull hasn't been enough not to convince dozens of born and raised Ozzies to opt for Kiwi selection. How to you explain that?

 

[RWB]

but it is hypocrisy when the same person holds both views, subject to circumstance.

Thanks for the definition. You didn't make it any clearer who exactly you're having a go at though...

 

[ozbash]

but it is hypocrisy when the same person holds both views, subject to circumstance.

Lol, wipe your chin Ernie

Origin is uniquely Australian. It should only ever be played by Aussies.

It cheapens the whole concept bribing non aussie players to participate...

 

[Meth]

the so called pull of origin is a myth, no matter how many times you tell yourself it's true. This mystical pull hasn't been enough not to convince dozens of born and raised Ozzies to opt for Kiwi selection. How to you explain that?

Who are these dozens of born and raised Aussies who have no rightful claim to the Kiwi jersey?

I can think of Nathan Fien and Brent Webb who have no rightful claim to the Kiwi jersey. Perhaps Gerard Beale.

 

[hutch]

Who are these dozens of born and raised Aussies?

I can think of Nathan Fien and Brent Webb who have no rightful claim to the Kiwi jersey. Perhaps Gerard Beale.

Really? You can't think of any more players born and raised in Australia who have played for nz?

 

[Meth]

Really? You can't think of any more players born and raised in Australia who have played for nz?

Yes, I can think of plenty. But I can only think of Webb and Fien who had no rightful claim to the Kiwi jersey.

And Beale who forfeited his claim when he played for the junior Kangaroos.

Being born and raised in Australia shouldn't necessarily disqualify you from playing for NZ, or vice versa.

BTW- I edited my post above to make clearer what I meant.