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Sinking clubs plead for pokies tax lifeline

BPS

Juniors
Messages
333
www.smh.com.au


Sinking clubs plead for pokies tax lifeline


  • Andrew Clennell State Political Editor
  • February 28, 2009
420parraclub-420x0.jpg
Parramatta Leagues . . . call to cut poker tax. Photo: Brendan Esposito

PARRAMATTA LEAGUES CLUB has had what it believes to be the biggest loss ever for a club in NSW, $7 million last year, as big clubs cry poor over poker machine tax increases, the anti-smoking laws and the global financial crisis.
Several leagues clubs say they will have to make cuts in their football departments unless things improve, and they are pleading with the State Government to reduce poker machine taxes. The chief executive of the National Rugby League, David Gallop, and club representatives asked for help from the Treasurer, Eric Roozendaal, two months ago. A working party with the clubs and the Government was then set up. But the Government is reluctant to provide tax relief.
The tax rate for big clubs that earn more than $20 million has reached a high of 39.09 per cent under the staggered tax policy. But this has coincided with a collapse in the world economy.
The poker machine tax debate could therefore become an issue at the next election, and the clubs lobby is likely to pressure the two main parties. The former Opposition leader Peter Debnam pledged at the last election to keep the rate capped at the 2005 figure of 32.79 per cent.
Mr Gallop said he had received a sympathetic audience from Mr Roozendaal, and the Government had to understand that the tax increases had hit clubs much harder than expected. "He acknowledged that a lot of leagues clubs are suffering," Mr Gallop said.
"It's potentially catastrophic … and I don't think anyone quite realised the real impact of the anti-smoking legislation and the lifting of the poker machine tax would be quite so dramatic."
The chief executive of Parramatta Leagues Club, Denis Fitzgerald, said his club had had to make six people redundant at the football club, and the losses the club was incurring were putting at risk its NRL team. "If we don't improve our overall position we won't be able to spend up to our salary cap … that would make it difficult for us to be competitive on the field."
St George Leagues Club has recorded a net loss of more than $1 million, and Penrith Panthers had a loss of $5.1 million, before an income-tax credit turned that into a profit of $1.5 million. The general manager of St George Leagues Club, Danny Robinson, said: "If the Government does not review the tax … the clubs will not survive."
But a spokesman for Mr Roozendaal said there was no desire for further concessions. "The NSW Government introduced financial hardship provisions in June 2008 to assist clubs experiencing a decline in gaming revenue. Eligible clubs can stagger their quarterly gaming machine tax into three equal instalments, without any penalty interest."
 

jdizzle

Juniors
Messages
948
Who cares about rugby league in this situation. Pokie machines are an enormous social problem - the less clubs rely on them for income, the better.
 

PJ

First Grade
Messages
5,843
I agree JD.

And since RL is a professional sport why do the teams need to be propped up by revenue from the Leagues clubs?

Teams should be run on gate takings, sponsorships, merchandise, football club memberships and broadcast rights. Propping them up with leagues club revenues is a false economy. Players should be paid 51% of the revenue they generate for the game through normal business activities and any personal endorsements with the rest going to administration, international and junior development.
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
I agree JD.

And since RL is a professional sport why do the teams need to be propped up by revenue from the Leagues clubs?

Teams should be run on gate takings, sponsorships, merchandise, football club memberships and broadcast rights. Propping them up with leagues club revenues is a false economy. Players should be paid 51% of the revenue they generate for the game through normal business activities and any personal endorsements with the rest going to administration, international and junior development.

Because to run a football club you need something called 'money'. Which football clubs don't make a lot of. Don't think if clubs could run off what you mentioned alone it wouldn't have been done already????

Sure, we could run off the profits of the football clubs, and go back to having a semi professional league and see all first grade worth players head overseas or to other codes.
 

MayMoo

Juniors
Messages
87
Worst thing they did was let the pubs have them.

They should have just left them in the clubs only, and this would have helped the football clubs.
 

Parra

Referee
Messages
24,900
Worst thing they did was let the pubs have them.

They should have just left them in the clubs only, and this would have helped the football clubs.

That really is the crux of the issue. Not no-smoking laws or the pokies tax.

The rot set in for clubs when pubs got pokies, and now keno and even lotteries. Why are publicans a protected species? The only reason is that they have great political clout via the best funding of any lobby group.

You would have to think that the clubs, and blokes like Fitzgerald know this, but they clubs and pubs don't seem to want to waste resources fighting each other - so instead they go to that great cash-cow, the taxpayer.
 

Munky

Coach
Messages
11,723
Get a fuggin business model that revolves around having to actually earn your revenue.

We keep hearing that the NRL is a business and as such it should be run as one. You can't have it both ways, if NRL teams can't support themselves they don't deserve to exist.

Super League was 15 years ago and the clubs haven't changed.
 

PJ

First Grade
Messages
5,843
Because to run a football club you need something called 'money'. Which football clubs don't make a lot of. Don't think if clubs could run off what you mentioned alone it wouldn't have been done already????

Sure, we could run off the profits of the football clubs, and go back to having a semi professional league and see all first grade worth players head overseas or to other codes.

Other sports seem to manage without the support of pokies through a licenced club. AFL, soccer, cricket, Rugby so it is being done already. Difference is that their administrators and players are realistic about what the game can support.

The game generates revenue through its normal business i.e. gate takings, revenue, sponsorships and media rights and this is what should be used to run it. There would be more than enough to run a professional sport, and having the pokies lifeline taken away may well encourage fans to support their team more such as with AFL clubs and their memberships.
 
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PJ

First Grade
Messages
5,843
That really is the crux of the issue. Not no-smoking laws or the pokies tax.

The rot set in for clubs when pubs got pokies, and now keno and even lotteries. Why are publicans a protected species? The only reason is that they have great political clout via the best funding of any lobby group.

You would have to think that the clubs, and blokes like Fitzgerald know this, but they clubs and pubs don't seem to want to waste resources fighting each other - so instead they go to that great cash-cow, the taxpayer.

THat is true as well Parra, pokies in pubs was one of the worst things to happen in this state. For mine it killed the culture in some of my favourite places, and the great live music I grew up with in pubs appears to have all but vanished.
 

duck_dodgers

Juniors
Messages
426
3 cheers for the NSW labor government that introduced pokies to pubs and imposed a crippling tax on leagues clubs

must make certain eels supporters feel sick .... :roll:
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
Other sports seem to manage without the support of pokies through a licenced club. AFL, soccer, cricket, Rugby so it is being done already. Difference is that their administrators and players are realistic about what the game can support.

The game generates revenue through its normal business i.e. gate takings, revenue, sponsorships and media rights and this is what should be used to run it. There would be more than enough to run a professional sport, and having the pokies lifeline taken away may well encourage fans to support their team more such as with AFL clubs and their memberships.

Soccer, cricket and rugby do not have 9 professional sides in a single city so the wealth is easy to share. There is more competition for sponsorship therefore deals are more likely to be larger. AFL has 9 teams in Melbourne but they're able to actually make money from their football clubs due to, as you mentioned, membership, and the fact Melbourne clubs average home crowds of 25,000 -30,000 plus.
 

Roosterphin1

Juniors
Messages
436
Soccer, cricket and rugby do not have 9 professional sides in a single city so the wealth is easy to share. There is more competition for sponsorship therefore deals are more likely to be larger. AFL has 9 teams in Melbourne but they're able to actually make money from their football clubs due to, as you mentioned, membership, and the fact Melbourne clubs average home crowds of 25,000 -30,000 plus.

Ding Ding Ding we have a winner. Time for the NRL to get a new business model themsleves aka A League which means less Sydney teams!
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
Clubs should start charging ESL,ARU,RFU and JRU Clubs with transfer fees and onsell monies

The problem with that is a lot of the time when releasing a player, it's in the NRL club's best interests that they do, eg. freeing salary cap space. And if the player's contract is up, like with say, Timana Tahu, the player is a free agent and the club has no right to demand transfer money.
 

PJ

First Grade
Messages
5,843
Soccer, cricket and rugby do not have 9 professional sides in a single city so the wealth is easy to share. There is more competition for sponsorship therefore deals are more likely to be larger. AFL has 9 teams in Melbourne but they're able to actually make money from their football clubs due to, as you mentioned, membership, and the fact Melbourne clubs average home crowds of 25,000 -30,000 plus.

So the AFL is running their business to what the market will support, the NRL is not and is being artificially propped up by pokies revenue.

It is a false economy.

Who knows, if fans actually thought that the game wasn't going as well as we are always told, and that their club may not survive, we may all be pleasantly surprised at how many took up memberships or made the extra effort to get to more games. Why couldn't the Sydney clubs average near 20,000 a game and have a decent membership, after all their playing rosters would be a lot less than an AFL club wouldn't they judging by how many are on the field so they should have lower costs. Having 8 other Sydney sides to play against would also make you think you should expect some decent travelling crowds to help with numbers for many games.

IMO until the issue of what the game is actually generating, and thus what it can support and where it needs to be and what it needs to do to get growth then opportunities will be missed. Players and player managers want a bigger slice of a pie that is nowhere near as big as they think it is, and the code has more boards than it needs, probably by about 3 or 4. Rugby League has some reasonably big problems and being propped up by pokies has helped them avoid facing them.
 

Parra

Referee
Messages
24,900
Membership at the Eels is only $25 per year. Hard to see a membership drive making much of a difference. It makes for a nice diversion from the real issue - why are rugby league TV rights sold so cheaply?
 

Loudstrat

Coach
Messages
15,224
Very true.

The issue is not about Pokies effect on social issues. If it was - we'd be talking about a ban - not a tax.

The pubs ain't taxed as far as I know.
 
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