Sinking clubs plead for pokies tax lifeline

[fred92]

You sound Crowe Jdizzle. How long did he last without them?
I think all clubs would would run into deficit if they followed your proposal, I also believe taxation increases on clubs suits the NRL nicely. Why is it that pubs casinos and other gambling establishments were exempt from these tax levies. The NRL.promised to lobby the government if clubs fall into hardship. Does this mean they have the power to influence Govt.? Yes. Have they ? No. Will they????? Only if or when it suits them.

 

[meltiger]

AFL clubs rely heavily on pokies

Whilst partly true (Some clubs whilst their pokie dens take in huge money don't actually turn significant profits), this ignores the fact that the vast majority of Melbourne clubs would survive without them.

Geelong talk about their profit being made up 60% pokie money ... Technically, these clubs don't need to turn a profit, they need to not lose money. Take away Geelong's 1 mill from that article you posted and they still make a 800K profit. How many Sydney RL clubs made an 800K profit in any of the last 5 years?


The true keys for VFL/AFL clubs are -

• The membership monies flowing into the clubs.
• Significant annual dividends from the AFL

These are the two key areas where RL desperately needs to follow the AFL's lead. The membership push over the last 2 years has been fantastic, and I would be extremely dissapointed if all clubs didn't increase their totals this year on last. Obviously the numbers will never match the AFL but you cannot expect that when it's not something ingrained in the supporters minds. If every Sydney club can get to 10-15k season ticket holders/members that's a very good start towards real consistent profitability.

With the annual dividends, well it's simply criminal what the NRL gives the clubs in comparison to the AFL clubs. Obviously the main issue is the underselling of the TV rights, but you can thank all those supporters of Scum League clubs for that one. what amazes me though, is that the AFL manage juniors, whilst the RL clubs themselves for the large part manage junior leagues (Or at the very least junior reps). How that gels with the AFL clubs getting significantly more money I'll never understand.


ElD you can put your hands over your ears, close your eyes and chant "AFL is evil" over and over and over, or even convince yourself that of lies such as "The AFL clubs rely heavily on pokies" ... it doesn't change the fact the AFL does do some things significantly better than RL does. The treatment of their traditional clubs (For the most part) being a prime example of that. This really is an example of where RL needs to copy the AFL's lead if you want them to strengthen the exisiting clubs.

 

[El Diablo]

Pokies keep the AFL clubs going. Vic don't tax like NSW

http://www.theage.com.au/national/afl-clubs-make-killing-on-pokies-20090307-8rym.html

AFL clubs make killing on pokies

* Cameron Houston
* March 8, 2009

VICTORIAN AFL clubs reaped $245 million from poker machines in the past three financial years and are increasingly targeting Melbourne's most vulnerable communities.

Five suburban venues owned by Collingwood Football Club made $62 million, with about $20 million pouring directly into the Magpies' coffers.

Reigning premiers Hawthorn got about $35 million from pokie players at its Waverley Gardens venue, Vegas, which was the third-most lucrative pokie club in the state. Each machine generated a staggering $157,000 last year.

Richmond's balance sheet was boosted by almost $10 million after pokie players lost about $30 million at its clubs in Wantirna and Richmond.

The Western Bulldogs, Essendon, Carlton and Melbourne each made more than $2 million a year from gaming.

Financially embattled North Melbourne recorded the lowest take of any Victorian club, with pokie players losing $1.3 million over three years at the Arden Street social club, delivering a modest profit of $450,000.

On Friday, the Brumby Government released details of pokies spending at all Victorian gaming venues as part of its plan to strip Tatts and Tabcorp of their duopoly power and allow hotels and clubs to own and operate machines.

Charles Livingstone, of Monash University's department of health science, accused AFL clubs of deliberately establishing gaming venues in economically disadvantaged areas.

"It's no coincidence that Richmond has a venue in Wantirna, or Melbourne in Oakleigh, or Collingwood in Caroline Springs, or Carlton in Laverton. This is an obvious strategy to maximise the returns from each machine and it seems to have the blessing of the AFL's administration," Dr Livingstone said.

Hawthorn is poised to expand its gaming empire into the western suburbs, with approval for 80 more machines at its proposed $27 million West Waters Hotel development in Caroline Springs.

Dr Livingstone warned that clubs would bid aggressively when poker machine entitlements were auctioned next year.

Ballarat Leagues Club chief executive Rod Ward said regional community clubs and RSL venues were vulnerable.

"Under the new system, we'll simply be outbid at auction. If you've got a situation where the Ballarat Golf Club is bidding against Collingwood Football Club, then who's going to win? It's like David versus Goliath," Mr Ward said.

Clubs Victoria executive director Margaret Kearney told The Sunday Age that the allocation of poker machine licences should not be decided by the highest bids alone.

Ms Kearney urged the Government to introduce a minimum entitlement for all community clubs to avoid competition with gaming industry heavyweights with deeper pockets.

 

[spider]

Very true.

The issue is not about Pokies effect on social issues. If it was - we'd be talking about a ban - not a tax.

The pubs ain't taxed as far as I know.

pubs get slugged harder than clubs with the tax - taxed at almost 50% of revenue

 

[jdizzle]

You sound Crowe Jdizzle. How long did he last without them?
I think all clubs would would run into deficit if they followed your proposal, I also believe taxation increases on clubs suits the NRL nicely. Why is it that pubs casinos and other gambling establishments were exempt from these tax levies. The NRL.promised to lobby the government if clubs fall into hardship. Does this mean they have the power to influence Govt.? Yes. Have they ? No. Will they????? Only if or when it suits them.

I've been directly affected by the demons of gambling addiction (with pokies). It is horrible, and there is little (close to no) support from the government.

As stated by others in this thread, the NRL needs to shift its business model and generate revenue from other streams. The NRL is the premier sporting competition within NSW and QLD, a large chunk of Australia's population. It really shouldn't be that hard.

 

[Perth Red]

It's about time Sydney clubs stopped whinging about pokie revenue and started getting a serious business model in place for the future. It is highly unlikely that things will change re the pokies (if anything they could get worse with the recession and NSW being skint and looking to raise money wherever it can).

Can it be done without pokies? Of course it can, it's just that some clubs are too idol or lacking in business management personel to do it.

In Perth we have two AFL clubs, both have memberships over 40,000, both have incomes in excess of $100million, both make a healthy profit and still are able to make enought to give the WAFL millions for jnr development. Perth has a similiar head of population/pro sports club as Sydney and Sydney arguably has alot more corporate opportunities. So why can't NRL clubs do it?

Get the right people in place (intersting to see the Aleague head hunting succesful AFL CEO's last week) and lets get Sydney clubs on a strong footing and driving the game forward.

ps TV deal isn't that much of a difference when you actuually look at the grants AFL clubs get v NRL clubs, certainly not a cure for multi million $ shortfalls.

 

[Loudstrat]

Yawn. The last time we had a club from Perth it relied 100% on a handout from a media mogul, who got bored with them after 2 seasons.

 

[Perth Red]

and that has what to do with the business success of number 1 code clubs in respective cities?

 

[Loudstrat]

Oh, forgot. You were Sydney bashing again. :roll: