Smith is failing: the proof

[Suitman]

Misty, let me ask you this. I know you have children. If one of them misbehaves or does something stupid, do you take full responsibility?

Legally, until they turn 18, I do.

so you're happy to cop the punishment if they commit a crime?

e2e,

How about looking at it this way.

If a multi national company's profits dive after boasting a previous record, and then continue to dive the year after, and shareholders are calling for blood, who's head would be on the chopping block??

Suity

in terms of form slumps / confidence slumps of players at other clubs, what have other coaches done that's so amazing?

You appear to be missing my point entirely with that comment.

Its quite possible that with some fresh blood and fresh ideas and motivation in the coaching department, that we would not have had half a season of poor form from a reasonable percentage of our team.
Its obvious that Langmack did nothing amazing.

Suity

 

[Eelectrica]

If we had have won a couple of the games that we let slip we would have made the finals - and been cannon fodder. Our results Vs the top 5 teams were quite simply attrocious. from 8 games against top 5 teams we won none of them and conceded over 40 points in 4 of them. After that our form wasn't too bad. We split the series against teams 6-8 and from 10 down, only losses to Manly and the Dragons. Both of those games we should have won.
Things to work on in the offseason are to catch up to the top teams so we can not only compete with them for the 80 but beat them. Also not letting the close games slip. Ultimately that's what cost us a spot in the finals - losing games that we had all but won.

What I'd like to see in the draw for next year is a clash Vs the roosters in the first 4 rounds to gauge if a we are a chance of doing anything in the season and another one in the final four rounds to get an idea of our form for the finals - assuming we're still alive at that point.

 

[The Colonel]

With Flanagan off to Souths to obviously take over half way through next year when Souths wake up to "Last Century's Hero" and John Frare leaving as skills and conditioning coach (did anyone else shudder when they heard that he was a coach?) maybe we are getting a few new ideas and fresh faces.

I know for some its not Smith however as some of the "lesser' coaches so to speak do most of the hands on work - as is done in every club - maybe a new face here or their may inject some enthusaism that has been lacking.

 

[Eelectrica]

A new conditioning coach is probably exactly what we need. I don't suppose there's much chance it could be Billy Johnson (The cowboys conditioning coach)?

In most of our games we were competing for the first half but fell away badly in the second half. Also with better conditioning our injury toll may be reduced.

 

[Chipmunk]

Holy Hell, will there be anyone left from this years Coaching staff besides Smith and JT???

I think a big shake up in all areas could do the Club some good, but I dont know if Smith staying around is one I would vote for!

 

[The Colonel]

Sorry Chjipmunk but the fact is Smith is staying whether anyone agrees or not. Alan Wilson, Craig Catterick, Rod Reddy, JT and Brian are still there so its not a huge change amongst staff new faces may help- we just have to wait and see.

 

[eloquentEEL]

Misty, let me ask you this. I know you have children. If one of them misbehaves or does something stupid, do you take full responsibility?

Legally, until they turn 18, I do.

so you're happy to cop the punishment if they commit a crime?

e2e,

How about looking at it this way.

If a multi national company's profits dive after boasting a previous record, and then continue to dive the year after, and shareholders are calling for blood, who's head would be on the chopping block??

Suity

in terms of form slumps / confidence slumps of players at other clubs, what have other coaches done that's so amazing?

You appear to be missing my point entirely with that comment.

Its quite possible that with some fresh blood and fresh ideas and motivation in the coaching department, that we would not have had half a season of poor form from a reasonable percentage of our team.
Its obvious that Langmack did nothing amazing.

Suity

that's great Suity, just chop out my response to your question and attack my next totally unrelated comment by saying it misses the point.

But my question still stands... what did Smith fail to do when the players started going into form slumps? From memory, he dropped a couple of them down to prems for a while to regain their form. I'm not saying Smith is perfect, but which coach, given similar conditions to work with, has done better?

 

[Suitman]

e2e,

I completely understand that Smith had a horror run with injuries this year, and that it was a huge contributing factor to our run of losses.
All I'm saying is that somebody else may have been able to get more from the players that stayed on the field than what he managed to do.
Yes, he dropped a few, but it was the ones he didn't drop that concerned me. ie. Wagon, Vella. At stages, their form warranted a stint in the Reggies. It would have been an opportune time to give some youngsters a taste of the big time. I know Witt got his chance, but Smiths hand was forced due to Greens injury. Would Witt have been given a go if Green had stayed fit and we kept losing??
Who knows?

Suity

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

That's true, Suity, but who could have played?

Sure, Tsoulous coulda played a few more games, but Armit got injured, and Duffy was out before the season even began.

We have had an injury curse since SOO last year. Hodgson has played only like 16 games since then, Hindy has spent ages on the sideline with Caylo and Micky V hasn't been a healthy boy this year. Burt, Graham, Armit, Dykes, Green, Chan - all good first grade players that were big parts of our plans and who have had injuries that haven't been very nice to them.

Melbourne heva responded well to it, but claims the Roosters did the same last year are crap. They had their team back by like Round 20 last year, and won 9 straight games at the back of the year with a full team. Before that they were playing crap bcause of injuries.

Before SOO last eyar we were going along very nicely. I mean, we won like 3 out of 13 or something didn't we? Yet still managed to make the finals.

Of course we have also had the halfback problem, but that seemed to have fixed itself up nicely towards the end of the year.

The problems we have faced are not really those a coach can overcome. I've always said if Smithy has one deficiency it's the halfback problem. He pulled a rabbit out of the hat with the glorious JT/2001, but Green was never going to be the same as JT and everyone's expectations were way too high.

So next year we have a developing and obviously talented Witt at 7, and so hopefully a good run with injuries will allow the boys to gel again and raid the NRL in 04.

 

[Twizzle]

e2e,

I know Witt got his chance, but Smiths hand was forced due to Greens injury. Would Witt have been given a go if Green had stayed fit and we kept losing??
Who knows?

Suity

Smiths hand may have been forced, but I don't know how much longer we could have waited for Green to produce.

Frankly I think BS persevered longer thanI would have. We did not have a good record with Green as our playmaker.

I got to see Steve and Michael Witt play side by side when we kicked a near full strength Manly in the trial game earlier this year at Cararra, and I thought it was a tatse of things to come...........................but that's history now.

 

[Chipmunk]

e2e,

I completely understand that Smith had a horror run with injuries this year, and that it was a huge contributing factor to our run of losses.
All I'm saying is that somebody else may have been able to get more from the players that stayed on the field than what he managed to do.
Yes, he dropped a few, but it was the ones he didn't drop that concerned me. ie. Wagon, Vella. At stages, their form warranted a stint in the Reggies. It would have been an opportune time to give some youngsters a taste of the big time. I know Witt got his chance, but Smiths hand was forced due to Greens injury. Would Witt have been given a go if Green had stayed fit and we kept losing??
Who knows?

Suity

I will not be holding my breath for Wagon to be dropped. He is the number 1 coaches pet after all. How this player ever got to be Captain is beyond me and I still think we are hard up if he was our best player of the year!!!

 

[The Colonel]

Wagon was an obvious choice as captain for a few reasons the most important one was the most blatantly obvious one - Hindmarsh, Vella, Cayless, Dykes, Green and Hodgson - the senior members of the team were not on the field for much of the year. Wagon deserved to be dropped and so did Vella however injuries to Hindmarsh and Cayless in particular meant they had to stay. You cannot field an inexperienced side with an inexperienced captain - Moodie and Treacy aside only Wagon had played more first grade games. And would you have put Darren in as captain??

 

[Suitman]

Wagon was an obvious choice as captain for a few reasons the most important one was the most blatantly obvious one - Hindmarsh, Vella, Cayless, Dykes, Green and Hodgson - the senior members of the team were not on the field for much of the year. Wagon deserved to be dropped and so did Vella however injuries to Hindmarsh and Cayless in particular meant they had to stay. You cannot field an inexperienced side with an inexperienced captain - Moodie and Treacy aside only Wagon had played more first grade games. And would you have put Darren in as captain??

You don't have to have played a lot of first grade to become captain.

Cayless captained JT, with a lot less first grade games under his belt.
Frankly, I would have preferred Treacy. I like a player who leads by example. Treacy busted his gut all year, while, at times, Wagon looked as though he was going throught he motions. Hopkins and Morris were also inspirational.
Someone said it earlier. Wagon (aka - superglue) - the pet.

Suity

 

[The Colonel]

Treacy did bust his guts and was no doubt better than Wagon at times however I doubt his claims for captaincy for the amount of time he spent getting into trouble from the referees. Listening and wtaching games he spent the majority of his time being chastised (I will admit I found it funny) but I would rather a captain like Cayless than Fletcher.....

You don't necessarily have to have played a lot of games to become captain but why burden one of the younger players when they are feeling their way into grade.

I could see Luke Burt making a good captain myself should the need arise however he too was off the field for extended periods.

I thought it was a logical choice however not a good one considering his form

 

[whocares]

I sometime do think BS should be given one more chance.May be next year. If he cannot produce we have to llok somebody like Lang or Ricky Stuart or Bellamy.
I think specially Bellamy did fine job. But BS need to prove next year.
We just cannot continue saying OK next year he will be fine. Rugby is a contact sports and there will be injuries. But that should not stop us coming into at least inside top 8. Look at New castle and Broncos. They had Tallis and Lockeyr missing for sometime.

 

[Suitman]

I sometime do think BS should be given one more chance.May be next year. If he cannot produce we have to llok somebody like Lang or Ricky Stuart or Bellamy.
I think specially Bellamy did fine job. But BS need to prove next year.
We just cannot continue saying OK next year he will be fine. Rugby is a contact sports and there will be injuries. But that should not stop us coming into at least inside top 8. Look at New castle and Broncos. They had Tallis and Lockeyr missing for sometime.

No point suggesting Lang, Stuart or Bellamy. They are already tied to clubs.

What about Stuart Raper, John Cartright or any number of developing coaches. I'm talking "smart" up and comers. Not the likes of Lamb or Langmack.
Even Peter Mulholland (spelling)? has plenty of experience and has been working under Lang for quite a while.

Colonel, I like the choice of Luke Burt. I think he'd be a great captain.

Suity

 

[The Colonel]

Yeah, I think it would be a great move - give him some responsibility and see if he can really shine.


As far as coaches go - the two I would be pushing for are John Cartwright or Kevin Moore. Moore has been coaching under some good coaches and coming from the (dare I say it) Bulldogs brings a lot of knowledge.

Its a gamble but so far the majority of coaches who have been through the Dogs have been sucessful all bar Baa Lamb.

Hagan, Anderson, Stuart, Gould etc etc.....

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

just in case people have forgotten or didn't know or whatever, burty captained the Eels in the Gold Coast trial against Manly this year. Did extremely well and of course we won because he is such a great leader, hehe. Just seeing him captain made it one of my favourite games of all time, I had a great time that night (so did Dust, lol)

As for coaches, while you all know my thoughts re: Smithy, I'll throw in a name. Well, first, I'll say I believe JT will be thenext Coach after Smith leaves, but if worst comes to worst and we need a new non-BS-JT coach, I'd like to see Phil Economidis have a shot. I always thought he was a good coach.

 

[MR GEORGE]

he done wonders with gold coast.