Someone has to say it

[Delboy]

I understand that some of the football staff are concerned that they may have no job security if the coach changes, and believe this will affect performance this year.
Well to be honest with all the football staff , look in the mirror "WHEN DID WE LAST WIN A BIG GAME??". We have lost 3 prelim finals when we were raging favourites and had substantial leads in 2 of the games , and failed to score in the other one, and then got beat in a Grand Final when we broke all records in the regular season. Our best player walked out after 1 game in 2004, and whilst there are reasons , it does not alter the facts.
How many would last in their jobs when you fail to reach your expected budgets/targets. We all like Brian, but WE HAEVN'T WON ANYTHING in the past 10 years (can't count the 7s)and only us tragics consider club championships and PL & JF of any value.
Its about time we stopped naval gazing and signing petitions and understand why we need change.
Consider this, for those of you at school, doing well all year and then stuffing up the HSC , try and get into Uni.
Those like Stiffmeister and others, be a nice bloke and not get your budgets , see you as they will find someone who will.
I am older than most of you posters, have been a Director of a Merchant Bank, State Manager at a Trading Bank and am currently a Senior Manager at a major financial institution and have been retrenched even when meeting all targets, so life is always about success like it or not.
Sorry to let off a bit of steam, but I dont think we should feel sorry for anyone, they are paid very well and haven't produced, so lets get on with it, welcome change , if the players don't like it or whatever, there are others that will play for our great club
Enough said

 

[eelaholic]

I find your post to be contradictory

You say for us not to continue to sign petitions etc, but to let Brian go for not performing to set targets, and players alike for also not producing despite being well paid?

So as a "managing director" of the "parramatta eels business" who do you terminate for non performance? Obviously the ultimate goal set by the business and industry itself, the NRL, is winning a grandfinal. So, therefore, is it your management (middle or executive) which is terminated for not preparing your department/team despite the various resources at hand, and failing lead them to success and reaching the ultimate goal of winning the grandfinal. Or is it your staff such as the players which have failed to perform to reach such set targets? If you chose both (which you have seemed to have outlined in your above post), then you have a whole new club on your hands, which, as our excuse was in earlier rounds of 2005, wont "gel".

In a business sense of the club, financially they are 2 years ahead with buying players and coaching staff etc. Therefore do you invest in "management" which will lead you to your target, or do you invest in a player which at the end of the day is out there producing the results day in and day out. What risks do you have in making these decisions?

The business sense aside, we are all still hurting from the last few years, there's no denying that. And the fact is, you can brood over the matter, point the blame at anyone and analyse it til you're red in the face, but these guys do what they do best, and thats footy. Sure we've had some trials and tribulations over the past few years, but thats rugby league. Its easy to blame Brian for our errors and the bad things. Its very easy, especially since he is the only constant over the last 10 years to have a direct influence on our team. The fact is, there are far too many variables (new players, player losses, injuries, player suspensions, salary cap, inclement weather etc the list goes on and on) all of which can throw out the odds and turn a hot favourite team on their best game to a team which lingers on the bottom of the table and struggles to put a game plan together week in and week out.

I agree, 10 years at a club for a coach is way too long. But everyone, please sit and think of the last time you thought "gee, that was very clever of Brian?" I bet it wasn't all that long ago. Its easy to think of why he made you angry and why "he made us lose", but he's done some great things for our club and it shows in those smaller goals set by a club which is to win the minor premiership, develop our juniors by winning the lower grades, or simply to win a game week by week and make the top 8. We shouldn't be so quick to bag him, he's only human and wants that premiership as much as the next bloke and is doing what is asked of him, all whilst being thrown in the deep end and shown the door with pride intact.

This year everyone from the club was burnt from the loss in 05. They all are fighting and hurting from the same thing, and all want us to win the big one. I'm sick of being called a choke artist, but I'm sticking with all my boys (from the CEO right down to the little guys of the business like the office assistant umjamming the photocopier) through the good times and the bad, all of which make parra the proud club it is today and always has been

 

[strider]

I actually think we OVER-ACHIEVED in 2005 .... seriously who thought we'd win the comp coming into 2005? - maybe the odd person

I agree we haven't had what it takes to win the big games - but I don't know the conclusive answer to why - and I don't think anyone really does.

As always - I don't see it as a one person thing, so I don't blame the coaching staff.... I mean why don't we sack Nathan Hindmarsh? He's been there through all the failures (bar last yr when he went and got injured :lol: - inconsiderate prick) - so maybe its his fault as much as anyone - he's our onfield leader - he should have stood up and won it all for us [/end-sarcasm]

I think it'd be good if ALL our supporters just went into 2006 optimistic rather than digging up old sh*t and trying to blame someone for past stuff ups .... Brian will be gone soon, you have something to look forward to, just be content with that for now ... if it was ALL his fault then you will only have to wait till 2007 for the big GF that we must win cos we are of course brilliant all over except for the coach.

 

[Delboy]

I am surprised that you find the post contradictory, the overall point is that we should be looking at why change has to be made. I don't think anyone of us on this forum is blaming anyome in particular, but if you are satisfied with the results, well that is your opinion.

My point was that overall you live and die by your results, and whilst we have recruited well and have a great structure, I don't believe we should be satisfied with the final achievements as we haven't one that well. Brian Smith deserves great praise for the manner in which the club was in some way turned around, but didn't we benefit from the Super League war in the recruits we made and the benefit that gave to the young players coming through.

I beleive Brian should be retained by the club to oversee development and possibly recruitment as junior scout, but I wanted to show some support for the need to change and our need to accept it.

My point in this post was to try and stimulate some understanding that ultimately this change may be similar to the catalyst Brian gave us 10 years ago, and as for middle management comments, I believe they may have contributed somewhat to our results
but lets face it there has been one person who had the final say.

Yes, we all were shattered by the NQ game, but to be brutally honest , it has happened before and I guess that makes it more unpalateable. The structure of the football business does make decisions such as the one that has been made necessary, as you said 10 years is probably too long without the final return on the investment made by the Directors.

 

[eelaholic]

you're 100% strider, although we really should get rid of that red headed ball boy. As a sand distribution agent, he really wasn't up to par in my mind :lol:

 

[Delboy]

Oops please read Brian should be Senior Scout .

I am glad we are looking at debating this issue as we all want the same thing, and maybe we have differing opinions but it's great that we are all so passionate in wanting our club to succeed

 

[Jake the snake]

Yes - Brian should be kept to Oversee the football operations - Scouting and Junior devlopement.

We did over achieve in 05 - Nobody expected us to go that far BUT the way we lost was f**kED and left everyone just SICK!! Therefore any sense of the over achievement was gone later that day. The comp was there for the taking.

 

[strider]

tbh I am kinda confused by your post and its purpose Delboy

you seem to say its not aimed at BS - but you keep bringing him up as the main thing that should change to spark something - so I think it is aimed at him

and I don't understand who you are convincing that we need to embrace change? - I think we are all comfortable with the fact this is brian's last season ..... or are you saying we should move him out earlier? I'm not sure. ... but I think everyone is keen to see what the club does for 2007 on and how it will change things

we may even see a fair bit of change this season .... I still see JT as the prime candidate to be given the 2007 job, so I imagine he'll likely get very involved this season ..... is that enough of a change to mix things up???

I actually don't want anything to change too much from last year .... we did very well last yr .... if we can keep things roughly the same and build on it a little, well you never know

 

[eelaholic]

You can prepare your team for a war, but when they leave the tunnel, its up to those 17 men to fight as one and conquere the enemy

The scariest thing that can happen on the field is quicksand. When things go wrong, you try everything in your power to make things work, but the harder you try the deeper you sink, until it consumes you and all is lost. This is what happened on that very sunday against the cowboys

 

[strider]

I wish everyone would stop harping on the Brian should be a scout/overseer/head coach/whatever you want to call it .... maybe he doesn't want to - maybe he wants to be the one calling the shots? - maybe he could go to another club and be the main man and do what he does best there??? ... and denis has made it perfectly clear it won't be happening - denis's wallet doesn't open that far :lol:

 

[eelaholic]

tbh I am kinda confused by your post and its purpose Delboy

you seem to say its not aimed at BS - but you keep bringing him up as the main thing that should change to spark something - so I think it is aimed at him

and I don't understand who you are convincing that we need to embrace change? - I think we are all comfortable with the fact this is brian's last season ..... or are you saying we should move him out earlier? I'm not sure. ... but I think everyone is keen to see what the club does for 2007 on and how it will change things

we may even see a fair bit of change this season .... I still see JT as the prime candidate to be given the 2007 job, so I imagine he'll likely get very involved this season ..... is that enough of a change to mix things up???

I actually don't want anything to change too much from last year .... we did very well last yr .... if we can keep things roughly the same and build on it a little, well you never know

Strider, this is what i was getting at by saying it was contradictory. One post said get rid of brian, get rid of the players because they are not performing and embrace change. I was also confused and addressed both view points of getting rid of either. Looks like you really can't have your cake and eat it too, unless the icing is a premiership

 

[strider]

Strider, this is what i was getting at by saying it was contradictory. One post said get rid of brian, get rid of the players because they are not performing and embrace change. I was also confused and addressed both view points of getting rid of either. Looks like you really can't have your cake and eat it too, unless the icing is a premiership

or unless that cake was orignally made for brooke and has a barbie in the middle

 

[Eelementary]

I understand that some of the football staff are concerned that they may have no job security if the coach changes, and believe this will affect performance this year.
Well to be honest with all the football staff , look in the mirror "WHEN DID WE LAST WIN A BIG GAME??". We have lost 3 prelim finals when we were raging favourites and had substantial leads in 2 of the games , and failed to score in the other one, and then got beat in a Grand Final when we broke all records in the regular season. Our best player walked out after 1 game in 2004, and whilst there are reasons , it does not alter the facts.
How many would last in their jobs when you fail to reach your expected budgets/targets. We all like Brian, but WE HAEVN'T WON ANYTHING in the past 10 years (can't count the 7s)and only us tragics consider club championships and PL & JF of any value.
Its about time we stopped naval gazing and signing petitions and understand why we need change.
Consider this, for those of you at school, doing well all year and then stuffing up the HSC , try and get into Uni.
Those like Stiffmeister and others, be a nice bloke and not get your budgets , see you as they will find someone who will.
I am older than most of you posters, have been a Director of a Merchant Bank, State Manager at a Trading Bank and am currently a Senior Manager at a major financial institution and have been retrenched even when meeting all targets, so life is always about success like it or not.
Sorry to let off a bit of steam, but I dont think we should feel sorry for anyone, they are paid very well and haven't produced, so lets get on with it, welcome change , if the players don't like it or whatever, there are others that will play for our great club
Enough said

I agree with everything you have written. Except that.

Jamie Lyon is an absolute freak of nature on the field. But place him in the forwards and he'd struggle.

I reckon put Hindmarsh in the centres and he'd kill it. Put him at prop and he'd kill it. Hooker...Hell, even halfback and 5/8 and he'd kill it.

Perhaps the only positions he may not kill it in would be at wing and fullback...

For those reasons, plus his ability to make 40 quality tackles a game and make 100+ metres a match AND come up with match-saving performances I think Hindmarsh is the best Eel.

And, some may argue, the most talented and valuable Eel ever...

 

[Eelementary]

Realistically, the Cowboys had no right to beat us that match...Yet they did...

THAT is what really gets me...WHY did we self-implode like that?

Sure, the Cowboys played well - but when in form, we would have given them a run for their money.

Yet we were woeful - collectively, anyway. Blokes like Riddell, Vella, Burt, Grothe and Tahu tried their arses off for us, but to no avail.

 

[Hurriflatch]

Part of the reason Parra failed and this may or may not come down to Brian Smith is that the Cowboys shut down Tim Smith (admitigly they bashed him out of the game but still) and Parra couldn't handle it

In previous seasons shutting down Parra's halfback wasn't a problem the team could still get over the line for the win but by that stage in the season tricks that Widders and Timmy etc pulled at the start of the year were being read better and were therefore less effective.

and this is what worries me for 2006 Tim Smith cannot go into the season expecting the same results he'll be marked a lot heavier and will need to change things up more he doesn't really need any new tricks he just needs to pick his spots better.

The longer the season went the more Timmy's long passes got intercepted (or at least knocked down).

 

[Eelementary]

Yeah that's very true.

One of the main reasons I'm so much of a pro-running 5/8 is because of that - Timmy, for all his athletic abilities, has an only average running game.

If we could pair him up with a Benji-clone, I think we'd go better.

 

[WA Eel]

Realistically, the Cowboys had no right to beat us that match...Yet they did...

THAT is what really gets me...WHY did we self-implode like that?

Sure, the Cowboys played well - but when in form, we would have given them a run for their money.

Yet we were woeful - collectively, anyway. Blokes like Riddell, Vella, Burt, Grothe and Tahu tried their arses off for us, but to no avail.

Is it any coincidence that that Riddell, Vella, Burt, Grothe and Tahu are also pretty much the only blokes on the team with big game (read, preliminary finals, grand finals and rep games) experience? If nothing else, the young blokes on the team will be better for the experience.

 

[lucablight]

Part of the reason Parra failed and this may or may not come down to Brian Smith is that the Cowboys shut down Tim Smith (admitigly they bashed him out of the game but still) and Parra couldn't handle it

In previous seasons shutting down Parra's halfback wasn't a problem the team could still get over the line for the win but by that stage in the season tricks that Widders and Timmy etc pulled at the start of the year were being read better and were therefore less effective.

and this is what worries me for 2006 Tim Smith cannot go into the season expecting the same results he'll be marked a lot heavier and will need to change things up more he doesn't really need any new tricks he just needs to pick his spots better.

The longer the season went the more Timmy's long passes got intercepted (or at least knocked down).

I don't think Tim Smith being shut down was the main problem. The man problem was that we kept dropping the damn ball. I don't think I've ever seen that much drop ball in a final before. This was only made worse when after all the raids at their line the cowboys were the ones to score first and the defence just crumbled after that.

 

[Eelementary]

Is it any coincidence that that Riddell, Vella, Burt, Grothe and Tahu are also pretty much the only blokes on the team with big game (read, preliminary finals, grand finals and rep games) experience? If nothing else, the young blokes on the team will be better for the experience.

True.

But Morris had some experience in Finals (I think). As does Widders.

I am excited - players like the Smiths, Delaney, Williams and Tsoulos will only get better!

 

[strider]

Morris and Widders have no real finals experience - most their top grade experience has been with us through the sh*t yrs