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Spring 2018

Sphagnum

Coach
Messages
13,126
A very good impartial read on why I'm amused when people jizz and call Winx the GoaT...

http://www.attheraces.com/blogs/kevin-blake

One of Australia's half dozen greatest horses; but ffs why the need to get misty eyed and call her the greatest? It's a recent phenomenon in all sports.

Is it not enough to be on the Immortal local pedestal that includes the likes of Phar Lap, Tulloch, Carbine, Kingston Town, and Black Caviar?

None of the champions of the past have been measured by their opposition so why is she?
 

lockyno1

Post Whore
Messages
53,350
It’s not the point.

You were whinging about Yucatan being scratched pre post but don’t give two shits about punters who got on Friday or Saturday morning before they changed their tactics. And the change in tactics wasn’t what was best for Dargento it was what was best for Winx.

If you were betting on Friday or Saturday morning why on earth wouldn't you wait till lunchtime- the change in tactics was announced at MV before the first, so that would have been before midday. If you weren't taking Winx to win, then why wouldn't you wait till you had all available information? Makes no sense otherwise.
 

lockyno1

Post Whore
Messages
53,350
The last two Cox Plates Winx has won have been bog ordinary.

Last year's was I 100% agree, this year's edition was pretty good. Three very good chances in Winx, Benbatl and Humidor, couple of MC contenders in Rostropovich and Avillius. Savvy Coup the outsider but had won a group 1 in NZ. Kings will Dream was an unfortunate circumstance but it's a very good horse. That isn't a bad field. Absolutely agree last year though- was a terrible race, only made worse by the fact that Bowman tried his best to lose it!
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
154,880
If you were betting on Friday or Saturday morning why on earth wouldn't you wait till lunchtime- the change in tactics was announced at MV before the first, so that would have been before midday. If you weren't taking Winx to win, then why wouldn't you wait till you had all available information? Makes no sense otherwise.
Once again it’s still not the point, something you continue to miss with unerring Accuracy.
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
154,880
Last year's was I 100% agree, this year's edition was pretty good. Three very good chances in Winx, Benbatl and Humidor, couple of MC contenders in Rostropovich and Avillius. Savvy Coup the outsider but had won a group 1 in NZ. Kings will Dream was an unfortunate circumstance but it's a very good horse. That isn't a bad field. Absolutely agree last year though- was a terrible race, only made worse by the fact that Bowman tried his best to lose it!
They both sucked, to bag one and not yet other is plain stupidity.


He’s bagged humidor in here for years now when it suits he’s quality :joy::joy::joy:
 

lockyno1

Post Whore
Messages
53,350
They both sucked, to bag one and not yet other is plain stupidity.

He’s bagged humidor in here for years now when it suits he’s quality :joy::joy::joy:

Look I don't think Humidor is fantastic, but his best is very good, it's just that horse mixes form like no other. I can never catch the thing- always loses when I back it. He's a multiple group 1 winner, he's a very good horse.

This year's had more depth though. It was a very good edition. Sure we'd like 15+ horses but the amount of horses in a race doesn't matter to me personally, you can have a great race with 5-6 horses, have seen some cracking 4 horse races in the UK.
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
154,880
Look I don't think Humidor is fantastic, but his best is very good, it's just that horse mixes form like no other. I can never catch the thing- always loses when I back it. He's a multiple group 1 winner, he's a very good horse.

This year's had more depth though. It was a very good edition. Sure we'd like 15+ horses but the amount of horses in a race doesn't matter to me personally, you can have a great race with 5-6 horses, have seen some cracking 4 horse races in the UK.
15+ horses???

I have already told you the field limit is 14 for a Cox plate.

It was a shit field own it.
 

lockyno1

Post Whore
Messages
53,350
15+ horses???

I have already told you the field limit is 14 for a Cox plate.

It was a shit field own it.

It wasn't a terrible field. There are multiple group 1 winners in this field

Winx- enough said
Benbatl- 3 group 1's in different countries
Humidor- inconsistent thing but has 2 group 1's
Avilius- group 1 winner
Savvy Coup- group 1 winner in NZ
Kings will Dream- was the CC favourite 2 weeks ago
Rostopovic- one of the Melbourne Cup chances
Dargento- up and coming middle distance to stayer horse.

That is a very solid field. The 2017 edition was much worse and I agreed with you there, it was a shocker. The 2018 one was pretty good. Don't need a full field to have a good race, we had a good race on Saturday
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
154,880
It wasn't a terrible field. There are multiple group 1 winners in this field

Winx- enough said
Benbatl- 3 group 1's in different countries
Humidor- inconsistent thing but has 2 group 1's
Avilius- group 1 winner
Savvy Coup- group 1 winner in NZ
Kings will Dream- was the CC favourite 2 weeks ago
Rostopovic- one of the Melbourne Cup chances
Dargento- up and coming middle distance to stayer horse.

That is a very solid field. The 2017 edition was much worse and I agreed with you there, it was a shocker. The 2018 one was pretty good. Don't need a full field to have a good race, we had a good race on Saturday
Avulius has not won a group 1, keep reaching. The field sucked like Riley Reid.
 
Last edited:

Tommy Smith

Referee
Messages
21,344
None of the champions of the past have been measured by their opposition so why is she?
If the Bruce McAvaney crowd are going to make claims that she's the best ever then it's fair to critique her record.

Winx is a phenomenal world class horse. She'd go toe to toe with the likes of Enable and Cracksman in Europe and imo beat them over her best distance.

But how anyone can keep a straight face and say she's definitely better than, say, Carbine is beyond me. There are just an insurmountable number of variables to make a comparison.

Here's a snippet on Carbine...

As a four- and five-year-old, Carbine won 17 of what would prove to be his last 18 races. On four occasions Carbine won twice on the same day. His victory in the 1890 Melbourne Cup was noteworthy. He set a weight-carrying record of 10 st 5 lb (66 kg) in the Cup, defeating a field of 39 starters and setting a record time for the race. He carried 53 lb (24 kg) more than the second-place horse, Highborn.

Those are just extraordinary facts. Contrast that to the cherry picked saloon passage the past two greats have been given.

Imagine Waller racing Winx twice in a day and having her carry 66kg in a Melb Cup. And so these comparisons are silly.

So it's not that I'm not a big admirer of Winx. She's a phenomenon. I just can't stand the Yankee style over the top dick pulling with everyone calling her the greatest, as though it's as quantifiable as saying Usain Bolt is the greatest sprinter.

It's just classic contemporary sensationalism.
 

lockyno1

Post Whore
Messages
53,350
Avulius has not won a group 1, keep reaching. The field sucked like Riley Reid.

My mistake, it might in a week though- good chance in the MC, even though I can't be on it. It's too short. The rest of them re correct. 3/4 of the field are group 1 winners, that's a good enough field. You are just annoyed TAS didn't run (and get smacked).
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
154,880
My mistake, it might in a week though- good chance in the MC, even though I can't be on it. It's too short. The rest of them re correct. 3/4 of the field are group 1 winners, that's a good enough field. You are just annoyed TAS didn't run (and get smacked).
LOL!! savvy Coup is a f**king plodder.

Benbattler is a decent horse and the rest are handicappers.


Do you want me to explain the difference if Weight for age racing and a handicap race???

She is the only WFA horse in the country atm.
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
154,880
If the Bruce McAvaney crowd are going to make claims that she's the best ever then it's fair to critique her record.

Winx is a phenomenal world class horse. She'd go toe to toe with the likes of Enable and Cracksman in Europe and imo beat them over her best distance.

But how anyone can keep a straight face and say she's definitely better than, say, Carbine is beyond me. There are just an insurmountable number of variables to make a comparison.

Here's a snippet on Carbine...

As a four- and five-year-old, Carbine won 17 of what would prove to be his last 18 races. On four occasions Carbine won twice on the same day. His victory in the 1890 Melbourne Cup was noteworthy. He set a weight-carrying record of 10 st 5 lb (66 kg) in the Cup, defeating a field of 39 starters and setting a record time for the race. He carried 53 lb (24 kg) more than the second-place horse, Highborn.

Those are just extraordinary facts. Contrast that to the cherry picked saloon passage the past two greats have been given.

Imagine Waller racing Winx twice in a day and having her carry 66kg in a Melb Cup. And so these comparisons are silly.

So it's not that I'm not a big admirer of Winx. She's a phenomenon. I just can't stand the Yankee style over the top dick pulling with everyone calling her the greatest, as though it's as quantifiable as saying Usain Bolt is the greatest sprinter.

It's just classic contemporary sensationalism.
LOL!!

39 starters and still won with 66kgs in race record time.

What a horse.
 

lockyno1

Post Whore
Messages
53,350
LOL!! savvy Coup is a f**king plodder.

Benbattler is a decent horse and the rest are handicappers.

Do you want me to explain the difference if Weight for age racing and a handicap race???

She is the only WFA horse in the country atm.

Everyone compared to Winx looks a bit poor. Winx is just that good. Don’t agree with Savvy Coup although was up in grade a lot on Saturday didn’t disgrace itself. It had a good run just wasn’t good enough on the day
 

Foz

Bench
Messages
4,124
My 2 cents worth.
Roaring Lion smashed Benbatl by 5.8 last time they met.
Enable struggled to beat Benbatl by 11.5 lengths last time they met.
In defence of Enable she met Benbatl in England and has only won 2 Arcs since.
Obviously a better horse now but because of how the ratings work there’s a chance that Benbatl and Enables rating will be the same.
The spell and the artificial turf race where she beat a 129 rater by 3 3/4 converted to a 125.
Anyone want to back Benbatl to beat Enable?
Anyway she has the Breeders Turf this weekend and Roaring Lion amazingly is in the classic on Dirt.Tough task.
Winx?
Keeps winning but is she as good as them.
My opinion is she isn’t but there’s plenty to say she is and they won’t win 29 in a row.
Afraid I’m a bit like the pommy journalist in what she’s beating and it’s obvious it hit a nerve with Waller so he’s aware of it.
Cracksman looks like he can beat all of them on a wet track.
I question it on fast tracks against that standard of horse but he’s still great.
Will never find out because he won’t run again.
 

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