State of origin 2025

[betcats]

I think that the criticism that Nathan is a 'system' halfback is valid.

He isn't the type of halfback who 'reads the game' and sets up plays 3 tackles beforehand like an Andrew Johns.

He isn't a 'natural' footballer like a Thurston who can play 'eyes up' footy, spot a half gap and throw a beautiful cut out pass on the chest for a linebreak.

He is an effort footballer who plays low risk football and stays calm doing it, is a great defender and is an excellent kicker which is arguably his best trait. Otherwise, there is nothing exceptional about him. He is a good runner without being great. A good passer without being great. A good decision maker without being great.

He is very much a manufactured product which makes sense when he is a Coach's son who isn't exactly a natural athlete.

The idea Cleary doesnt read the game is the dumbest shit. Some of you are such hot take merchants, get the f**king media and facebook commentors out of your head and do your own thinking.

Cleary absolutely reads the game and is definitely plotting tries 3 or 4 tackles in advance. You can find a breakdown of him doing that to Shawn Blore in the 2024 gf. There were 2 or 3 different RL social media sites who ran with it. Nathan is a different style to Johns and Thurston, that doesnt mean he doesnt read the game, my gosh that is a stupid take.

 

[Oldpanther86]

The idea Cleary doesnt read the game is the dumbest shit. Some of you are such hot take merchants, get the f**king media and facebook commentors out of your head and do your own thinking.

Cleary absolutely reads the game and is definitely plotting tries 3 or 4 tackles in advance. You can find a breakdown of him doing that to Shawn Blore in the 2024 gf. There were 2 or 3 different RL social media sites who ran with it. Nathan is a different style to Johns and Thurston, that doesnt mean he doesnt read the game, my gosh that is a stupid take.

Something he does do is stay of of sets too much. In origin and first half vs eels he'd often not touch the ball until the 4th or 5th when he'd run/kick. Everything looks so much better when hes getting it a few times a set just look at the second half vs eels.

 

[betcats]

Something he does do is stay of of sets too much. In origin and first half vs eels he'd often not touch the ball until the 4th or 5th when he'd run/kick. Everything looks so much better when hes getting it a few times a set just look at the second half vs eels.

I doubt many halfbacks touch the ball more than Nathan does.

 

[Oldpanther86]

I doubt many halfbacks touch the ball more than Nathan does.

He probably does. He still has periods where he won't get involved and the knock on him is he doesn't control games in origin. We saw the second half yesterday what happens when he gets motivated and involved. The Broncos game earlier in the year is a good example as well. That game was entirely based on him deciding he was winning. I don't think even he realises how GOATed he could be.

 

[betcats]

He probably does. He still has periods where he won't get involved and the knock on him is he doesn't control games in origin. We saw the second half yesterday what happens when he gets motivated and involved. The Broncos game earlier in the year is a good example as well. That game was entirely based on him deciding he was winning. I don't think even he realises how GOATed he could be.

Only DCE and Katoa touch the ball more as a HB so i think he is fine. lets not pretend that origin 3 was his usual performance. If you are saying "he needs to do X becuase in origin 3 he didnt " then you are probably about to say something silly.

The criticism after origin 3 was ridiculous. He had a bad game no doubt about that but the "oh he is just a good sydtem player" is just a lazy garbage click bait opinion that journos run with to get views and then all the facebook idiots run with it cause they dont like penrith and they are emotional about nsw losing.


Has Nathan left his mark like Joey on orgin yet? no, has he had some average, yes of course. Has he played well as a halfback in origin? f**k yes. Plenty of good games origin, plenty of times he has controlled it.

 

[Oldpanther86]

Only DCE and Katoa touch the ball more as a HB so i think he is fine. lets not pretend that origin 3 was his usual performance. If you are saying "he needs to do X becuase in origin 3 he didnt " then you are probably about to say something silly.

The criticism after origin 3 was ridiculous. He had a bad game no doubt about that but the "oh he is just a good sydtem player" is just a lazy garbage click bait opinion that journos run with to get views and then all the facebook idiots run with it cause they dont like penrith and they are emotional about nsw losing.


Has Nathan left his mark like Joey on orgin yet? no, has he had some average, yes of course. Has he played well as a halfback in origin? f**k yes. Plenty of good games origin, plenty of times he has controlled it.

Same goes for anyone who claims to not see he has two modes. "Robotic gameplan halfback" and "he's just decided he's not losing today good luck opposition".

 

[Pomoz]

He probably does. He still has periods where he won't get involved and the knock on him is he doesn't control games in origin. We saw the second half yesterday what happens when he gets motivated and involved. The Broncos game earlier in the year is a good example as well. That game was entirely based on him deciding he was winning. I don't think even he realises how GOATed he could be.

I reckon that is spot on. He is too humble. NSW lose and lets face it, the forwards were awful. How do you take control if your team is going nowhere and your forwards are going backwards. They lacked enthusiasm and not enough of them rolled their sleeves up. But Nathan says it was his fault, he played poorly. He made 35 tackles and thats 2 more than Angus Crichton.

I applaud the fact that he showed proper leadership and took accountability. But he needs a bit more ego. He needs to be telling Max King (37m), "get Fugging moving", Liam, take some fugging hit ups, Connor give me the fugging ball when I ask for it".

At the end of the day, playing halfback is like being a CEO, it maybe the sales directors fault your sales are through the floor, but as CEO you sure as hell are going to be held accountable by the shareholders. Once you understand that, it makes you more comfortable, firing or bollicking somebody. At least fail on your own terms with a bang, not whimper.

At the Panthers he is comfortable to take control, at rep level, he tends to sit back modestly like he thinks he isn't worthy. Yesterday was a perfect example. Comes off the bench and immediately takes control and improves the team.

 

[betcats]

Same goes for anyone who claims to not see he has two modes. "Robotic gameplan halfback" and "he's just decided he's not losing today good luck opposition".

Ive never heard that before.

 

[kyussian]

I reckon that is spot on. He is too humble. NSW lose and lets face it, the forwards were awful. How do you take control if your team is going nowhere and your forwards are going backwards. They lacked enthusiasm and not enough of them rolled their sleeves up. But Nathan says it was his fault, he played poorly. He made 35 tackles and thats 2 more than Angus Crichton.

I applaud the fact that he showed proper leadership and took accountability. But he needs a bit more ego. He needs to be telling Max King (37m), "get Fugging moving", Liam, take some fugging hit ups, Connor give me the fugging ball when I ask for it".

At the end of the day, playing halfback is like being a CEO, it maybe the sales directors fault your sales are through the floor, but as CEO you sure as hell are going to be held accountable by the shareholders. Once you understand that, it makes you more comfortable, firing or bollicking somebody. At least fail on your own terms with a bang, not whimper.

At the Panthers he is comfortable to take control, at rep level, he tends to sit back modestly like he thinks he isn't worthy. Yesterday was a perfect example. Comes off the bench and immediately takes control and improves the team.

Great post & analogy. Think you've nailed it!

Nathan is definitely more introverted & tends to demonstrate via actions without ego.

Even though I dont necessarily agree that one needs to drop humility over ego to be effective, it's just the way of the world thesedays. He's more the JFH/Leota/Dearden style of personality where they are respected for their actions over a Luai/Walsh/Critta type who have got no issue being brash & ott to help uplift them which convinces the masses that it's the way to be when it comes off. Have you noticed these are also the type of players that the masses want to see fail!? They bring a target on themselves for being an ego.

FYI I agree that he likely needs to be playing the bad guy more in a team to push them along. Personally I like how composed he is. He'll always cop flak because of who he is & what he's achieved. He knows that he needs to deliver at Origin & he'll be motivated to change this reputation. My hope is that he will ultimately get this stupid monkey off his back in his own way to disprove the theory you cant be humble to be the GOAT.

 

[Pomoz]

Great post & analogy. Think you've nailed it!

Nathan is definitely more introverted & tends to demonstrate via actions without ego.

Even though I dont necessarily agree that one needs to drop humility over ego to be effective, it's just the way of the world thesedays. He's more the JFH/Leota/Dearden style of personality where they are respected for their actions over a Luai/Walsh/Critta type who have got no issue being brash & ott to help uplift them which convinces the masses that it's the way to be when it comes off. Have you noticed these are also the type of players that the masses want to see fail!? They bring a target on themselves for being an ego.

FYI I agree that he likely needs to be playing the bad guy more in a team to push them along. Personally I like how composed he is. He'll always cop flak because of who he is & what he's achieved. He knows that he needs to deliver at Origin & he'll be motivated to change this reputation. My hope is that he will ultimately get this stupid monkey off his back in his own way to disprove the theory you cant be humble to be the GOAT.

I think being humble is an incredibly positive personal attribute. But, that doesn't mean you can't speak up and take control when the situation demands it. That is part of the role as halfback. Be modest, but somebody needs to tell Max King 37m isn't good enough, or Liam Martin, we need more hit ups. Thats not ego, thats doing the job of a halfback and trying to create change to improve the performance. Sometimes words are as important as actions.

I also would love to see the monkey removed from his back. Sadly, I think it has now grown to the size of a Gorilla.

 

[ColdWetPanther]

This whole debate is what makes the result in Origin 2 so frustrating. Smashed in the penalty count, no forwards really making impact. Despite that NSW scored 5 tries to 4, with Cleary (and Luai) being very efficient in the red zone to create space with limited opportunities. If ever there was a game where ‘winning off the back foot’ that would have been it; not through flashy plays like in the 23 GF, but through getting to a point in the field and creating space on the edges through quality half play.

Unfortunately goal kicking and a lack of composure in the final 5 minutes creeped a great chance.

 

[Murraymob1]

They can place what ever tags on him they want but the 20 minutes he produced in the grand final was out of this world .no programme no manufacture just seeing and playing in the moment

 

[Oldpanther86]

They can place what ever tags on him they want but the 20 minutes he produced in the grand final was out of this world .no programme no manufacture just seeing and playing in the moment

My favourite football moment of all time. I think that adds to people's frustration they watch him being Nathan cleary destroyer of clubs and want that for nsw.

 

[Flashstep]

Some of the criticism Cleary gets in Origin is fair, a lot of it is f**king stupid though. Completely agree with @betcats, this idea that he is just some system halfback is just lazy soundbites criticism that fans and journos love to throw around.

QLD were just the far better team in game 3, I don't think any halfback would have got the job done with the performances of the entire team bar 2 or 3, coaching and how the NSWRL runs itself. Doesn't help our dumbmerkin media love declaring us winners before a ball is even kicked.

Personally I think the best option for Cleary next year is have him at 6 and Moses at 7, I think Moses has shown more in the arena and QLD just mark Cleary out of the game and they tend to do that very well, it's also a lot easier when Luai and Cleary are really the only creative outlets in our spine. I love Edwards but I don't think he can be a NSW fulllback especially with Robson at 9, we need to swap those 2 out first.

 

[Oldpanther86]

Some of the criticism Cleary gets in Origin is fair, a lot of it is f**king stupid though. Completely agree with @betcats, this idea that he is just some system halfback is just lazy soundbites criticism that fans and journos love to throw around.

QLD were just the far better team in game 3, I don't think any halfback would have got the job done with the performances of the entire team bar 2 or 3, coaching and how the NSWRL runs itself. Doesn't help our dumbmerkin media love declaring us winners before a ball is even kicked.

Personally I think the best option for Cleary next year is have him at 6 and Moses at 7, I think Moses has shown more in the arena and QLD just mark Cleary out of the game and they tend to do that very well, it's also a lot easier when Luai and Cleary are really the only creative outlets in our spine. I love Edwards but I don't think he can be a NSW fulllback especially with Robson at 9, we need to swap those 2 out first.

When he has a 100% loss rate in deciders the criticism is fair. When a guy owns big games for the club but not origin questions will get asked.

 

[ColdWetPanther]

When he has a 100% loss rate in deciders the criticism is fair. When a guy owns big games for the club but not origin questions will get asked.

But Cleary steps up in other big games; the team he leads around the park have won 12 straight finals games, 9 of which have been knock-out affairs.

So what is different about NSW versus Penrith? Do we really think it is about what colour jersey he wears? Is it a different form of pressure? Or is it a style of game that doesn’t suit him? When the likes of Dearden and Moses are being considered better halves than him it suggests to me the latter, as there is a style to Origin where playing flat and on the front foot is encouraged.

He should adapt to that, but the overall team doesn’t really allow him to too.

 

[The Realist]

The idea Cleary doesnt read the game is the dumbest shit. Some of you are such hot take merchants, get the f**king media and facebook commentors out of your head and do your own thinking.

Cleary absolutely reads the game and is definitely plotting tries 3 or 4 tackles in advance. You can find a breakdown of him doing that to Shawn Blore in the 2024 gf. There were 2 or 3 different RL social media sites who ran with it. Nathan is a different style to Johns and Thurston, that doesnt mean he doesnt read the game, my gosh that is a stupid take.

Just because he does it every so often doesn't mean it's something he does consistently or that it's a big part of his game. Johns wasn't a gifted runner, or have a crazy long boot. Doesn't mean he didn't make some spectacular runs or kicks on occasion - it's just that his game is not built on those qualities. He could construct a set like nobody else I have witnessed and he could also change his tactics 'on the fly'.

By comparison, Nathan is a highly robotic halfback.

So often in the last 2 games I saw Cleary pass to the wrong option.

Remember in Game 2 when he attempted a face ball to Haas who was basically about to get tackled? It was a bad option that lost us the game in the dying minutes. He had plenty of similar moments in other parts of game 2 and littered throughout Game 3.

Listen, I have given Nathan his dues and appreciate what a legend he is for us. At this stage it just doesn't appear that his game translates well outside the Panthers system and in particular Origin. Sure, he has been hampered numerous times by injury and shit coaching - but he has also had plenty of games to prove himself and the fact that after all these games that his performances can be questioned clearly means that he HASN'T proven himself, and he pretty much admits it himself.

Hopefully it is fuel for him to get better which can only help us and NSW into the future.

 

[Munky]

As good as Johns was he absolutely shat the bed at times.

The Knights had the 2000 prelim won and he literally threw the game away.

Broncos Knights would have been better than watching the Roosters roll over like Parra in 2022. Except Luke Philips, best player on the field.