State of the Nation

[Saints Forever]

Ladies and Gentlemen
I am somewhat confused at all the negativity after a loss to a team that is clearly a top four contender.

Our squad is not a top 4 squad.

Last year we nearly won the wooden spoon.

The new coach has done his very best to recruit quality players.

Unfortunately, we have not been competitive in the player market, and will rely heavily on the promotion of juniors for the next two seasons.

Last time I looked at the ladder we have 4 wins and 4 losses.

We have to be realistic when assessing our team’s chances of playing finals footy.

Three games in twelve days.

Suli knocked out in first play of the game.

Then a string of penalties giving the Roosters field position. The signs were ominous. They had lost three of their last four games. They were hungrier but also far more talented.

Our problems are inherently structural.

No joint venture club has succeeded to date, nor will they.

The club needs to make a monumental decision.

One ground.

One base.

One name.

Illawarra Steelers ?

Illawarra Dragons ?

St George Dragons ?

Whatever the decision is, it needs to be made very soon, otherwise the club will be relocated interstate or will eventually fold all together.

 

[Nanadragon]

The only argument I can put forward is that we did win the premiership in 2010 with the joint team. Then Bennett leaves us with recommendations of the worst coach possible in Steve Price.
Truthfully I don't know the answer to our problems but I agree with you that we should be one thing or the other. Won't happen in my lifetime though.

 

[Dragon David]

Ladies and Gentlemen
I am somewhat confused at all the negativity after a loss to a team that is clearly a top four contender.

Our squad is not a top 4 squad.

Last year we nearly won the wooden spoon.

The new coach has done his very best to recruit quality players.

Unfortunately, we have not been competitive in the player market, and will rely heavily on the promotion of juniors for the next two seasons.

Last time I looked at the ladder we have 4 wins and 4 losses.

We have to be realistic when assessing our team’s chances of playing finals footy.

Three games in twelve days.

Suli knocked out in first play of the game.

Then a string of penalties giving the Roosters field position. The signs were ominous. They had lost three of their last four games. They were hungrier but also far more talented.

Our problems are inherently structural.

No joint venture club has succeeded to date, nor will they.

The club needs to make a monumental decision.

One ground.

One base.

One name.

Illawarra Steelers ?

Illawarra Dragons ?

St George Dragons ?

Whatever the decision is, it needs to be made very soon, otherwise the club will be relocated interstate or will eventually fold all together.

The only argument I can put forward is that we did win the premiership in 2010 with the joint team. Then Bennett leaves us with recommendations of the worst coach possible in Steve Price.
Truthfully I don't know the answer to our problems but I agree with you that we should be one thing or the other. Won't happen in my lifetime though.

I am in agreement with the both of you Saints Forever and Nanadragon. There are those who have said that we should not have merged and the St George Dragons be as one club. Fair enough that under Bennett the St George Illawarra Dragons won the premiership in 2010 and the year before and after we did quite well. Also in 1999 when the Steelers and the Dragons merged we made the grand final and imo we should have won it.

Who knows how many grand finals we might have reached from 1999 to now as the St George Dragons - we might have won 3 in that time? The other thing is, if we joined the Super League we could have been great, who knows?

But yes, the way we are currently structured over a great expanse and having two grounds isn't doing us any favours. These past 12 years has been devastating insofar as the end of year results are concerned.

I don't know what the solution is and I don't think that the Board knows as well otherwise I wouldn't be writing this shit. I'm certainly giving Flanno a couple of years to show his worth and I hope that he succeeds. These big losses though have me worried.

 

[Parko1310]

I've been calling for this for ages. It is the clear solution that is impossible to ignore, but that a lot of the fan base, and clearly most of those within the 4 walls of the Dragons do not want to face.

St George traditionalists need to take their rose coloured glasses off and realise that Kogarah is an absolute shit hole. Kogarah is the easier of our two grounds for myself to get to as well, so there's no location bias here, just facts. WIN needs an upgrade terribly badly, but is no where near the level of a shit hole as Kogarah is. The pressing issue is this: they both are in need of upgrades, but the location of Kogarah makes it near impossible to get a meaningful upgrade, whereas the location of WIN makes it very much plausible. At the end of the day though, I don't care which one it is but they need to pick one and commit to achieving an upgrade for the one they choose. If they think they are somehow a chance of getting a meaningful upgrade at Kogarah, great, I just don't see it. WIN looks possible to me. These shitty grounds we currently have are going to be no where near acceptable in 25-30 years time, but the split home ground makes it impossible for upgrades to happen because we only play 5-6 games a year at each venue, so why would the govt spend money on that? The other thing is this: just look at crowd numbers compared to Kogarah v WIN, its not even a competition. Time slots at Kogarah this year are great too, and I am still extremely confident crowd numbers at WIN will be better this year by some margin, so just shutting that spiel down now. Not to mention, does anyone honestly think Kogarah gets over 13,000 to the Friday 6pm game against the Warriors last week? Hmmm...

 

[matPORTS]

I'm not going to comment on the political landscape that is the merger. What's done is done. We are the St George Illawarra Dragons. We have two bases (Kogarah & Wollongong). We have a management team & board of directors that are also split down the middle of the merger (and those same characters and their anointed successors will be there for a some time to come). The only thing we can hope for is that the management team & board are making decisions in the best interest of the club overall, and not their own individual agendas (and yes I agree this is clearly very questionable given what's been happening over the past 12 seasons).

Regardless - the overall footballing operation of the club competes in the same competition(s) and under the same governance as that of all the other 16 clubs. We've lacked a competent head coach for a long time now, who can help us to work through that governance and maximise our potential to be successful. Flanno is probably the best we could have gotten for this job.

Our lack of success over the past 12 years, the mistakes that have been made in retention + recruitment, lack of overall discipline and standards from the bottom to the top of the footballing department, unfortunately aren't going to turn around in one single season. I'm giving Flanno at least 2-3 seasons to just to be able to point this ship back in the right direction.

It's becoming very clear that we aren't going to have much success in the open market. So, we're going to need to promote from within. The most promising juniors we have are probably 2-3 seasons away from making to & then regular first grade. Most of us here already know this. Flanno no doubt knows this as well.

Our loss the the other day is mere proof that we have more work to do in terms of driving standards through the club. It's not acceptable to go from beating one of the most competitive teams of the last couple of years to getting absolutely spanked in the one regular season game where you should DEFINITELY be up and about. Again, Flanno no doubt knows this.

The big losses also have me concerned. But I'm hoping that this is also a consequence of tougher training standards starting to be driven. There are no doubt certain individuals within the camp currently whom just aren't getting the message about what it takes to be consistently successful in a competition, where the standards of those whom show up in the top four most years are consistently high. Hopefully, the penny eventually drops, or Flanno has the tough conversations with these individuals that they aren't meeting the standard of what it takes to wear the Red V.

 

[TheRev]

Winning fixes everything, and we always play our best footy at WIN.. if I was a player, WIN would be an ideal base, minimal traffic and beach life.. and our centre of excellence will be there.... still only 2hrs away if you rly need to visit Sydney..

But politically it is dynamite, and im not sure it would ever get over the line..

 

[Illusion]

For me problem is the Board , bunch of leechers sucking the place dry with what ever they can get out of the joint .......... Young still hanging around , Doust back again sucking more blood , Andrew Gordon , his sister on the board , Millward still there somewhere doing what the F**K he does , a split board one year you run it the next year we run it ........ A CEO that does nothing but a puppet to the Boys Club ......... We are really no chance of moving ahead with this lot calling the shots ........ So they either piss off the St George side of it or the Illawarra side of it and let one club run the joint ..........

 

[twinkletoes]

I'm not going to comment on the political landscape that is the merger. What's done is done. We are the St George Illawarra Dragons. We have two bases (Kogarah & Wollongong). We have a management team & board of directors that are also split down the middle of the merger (and those same characters and their anointed successors will be there for a some time to come). The only thing we can hope for is that the management team & board are making decisions in the best interest of the club overall, and not their own individual agendas (and yes I agree this is clearly very questionable given what's been happening over the past 12 seasons).

Regardless - the overall footballing operation of the club competes in the same competition(s) and under the same governance as that of all the other 16 clubs. We've lacked a competent head coach for a long time now, who can help us to work through that governance and maximise our potential to be successful. Flanno is probably the best we could have gotten for this job.

Our lack of success over the past 12 years, the mistakes that have been made in retention + recruitment, lack of overall discipline and standards from the bottom to the top of the footballing department, unfortunately aren't going to turn around in one single season. I'm giving Flanno at least 2-3 seasons to just to be able to point this ship back in the right direction.

It's becoming very clear that we aren't going to have much success in the open market. So, we're going to need to promote from within. The most promising juniors we have are probably 2-3 seasons away from making to & then regular first grade. Most of us here already know this. Flanno no doubt knows this as well.

Our loss the the other day is mere proof that we have more work to do in terms of driving standards through the club. It's not acceptable to go from beating one of the most competitive teams of the last couple of years to getting absolutely spanked in the one regular season game where you should DEFINITELY be up and about. Again, Flanno no doubt knows this.

The big losses also have me concerned. But I'm hoping that this is also a consequence of tougher training standards starting to be driven. There are no doubt certain individuals within the camp currently whom just aren't getting the message about what it takes to be consistently successful in a competition, where the standards of those whom show up in the top four most years are consistently high. Hopefully, the penny eventually drops, or Flanno has the tough conversations with these individuals that they aren't meeting the standard of what it takes to wear the Red V.

I wish we had a Shane Richardson running the ship instead of …. what’s his name ?? Ryan Webb who seems to go MIA

 

[thebigredv]

The board want us to believe a coach can pull us out of it. If they try enough coaches one will eventually work.
That is their sole contribution.
Not even a review.
Each failure is allowed to roll onto the next.

Meanwhile, our kingdom burns.

Never in the history of rugby league has the Dragons club been treated with such disdain.
We are not a destination club.
We are a last resort for rugby league's most misfit players.

 

[2010Dragons]

Here is the solution.
All player contracts are immediately suspended.
New performance KPI are introduced.
Players are paid match payments only. (Interim measure)
If they win games BIG bonus will be given out after every game.
If they keep losing, players will be drops and match payments will be cut in half.
When the team starts performing successfully like all good teams.
New contracts will be negotiated.
If they can't get their shit together then they will be directed to me for a good baseball bat bashing.

This solution can't fail.

 

[Saints Forever]

Here is the solution.
All player contracts are immediately suspended.
New performance KPI are introduced.
Players are paid match payments only. (Interim measure)
If they win games BIG bonus will be given out after every game.
If they keep losing, players will be drops and match payments will be cut in half.
When the team starts performing successfully like all good teams.
New contracts will be negotiated.
If they can't get their shit together then they will be directed to me for a good baseball bat bashing.

This solution can't fail.

Except that the real problem is we don’t have the cattle

 

[2010Dragons]

Except that the real problem is we don’t have the cattle

Sometimes you need to whip the cattle or cull the useless cattle with a baseball bat to rattle the cages and put the under performing cattle on notice.
send Blake and Ben to me and they will be playing like immortals in 1 session.

 

[matPORTS]

Just have to make comment and thought this was the most appropriate thread.

Parramatta have lost the opportunity to go out and sign Wayne Bennett, when it was revealed that Bennetts 'entourage' were approaching Parramatta as far back as January... go back to the 2022-2023 off season for the when we should have been moving Hook on then and bringing in a new coach to get started. Consequently, we're a year behind where we realistically could have been.

In the meantime - Souths sack their underperforming coach and ruthlessly go out and get the man they want. The impact of Bennett confirmed as coming back to the club will be felt immediately.

Instead of just courting Blaize Talagi for next year and beyond, why not be aggressive and get talking with Parramatta about a swap deal with Lomax now? Strike while the iron is hot.

In the meantime - Isaiah Papali'i is on the market for what appears to be less than 24 hours, and Penrith have locked in the deal (and just for the record David Fifita and his management didn't even want to talk with us during that saga a fortnight ago).

The point I'm trying to make - the consistently good clubs go out and get sh** done. They realise results mean bums on seats at the ground + TV & Radio ratings for their games (this is not just results on the scoreboard either). Whereas clubs like us, the Eels and the Tigers are relying on their clubs being 'asset rich' and enabling high fives behind closed doors in the boardroom, and they don't really care whether the high fives happen out on the football field or not.

I don't know whether I'm just being impatient? But the pace in which our club acts on what should be standard business practices would not be tolerated in any other industry (well at least not where I work).

 

[Lovemedragons]

Just have to make comment and thought this was the most appropriate thread.

Parramatta have lost the opportunity to go out and sign Wayne Bennett, when it was revealed that Bennetts 'entourage' were approaching Parramatta as far back as January... go back to the 2022-2023 off season for the when we should have been moving Hook on then and bringing in a new coach to get started. Consequently, we're a year behind where we realistically could have been.

In the meantime - Souths sack their underperforming coach and ruthlessly go out and get the man they want. The impact of Bennett confirmed as coming back to the club will be felt immediately.

Instead of just courting Blaize Talagi for next year and beyond, why not be aggressive and get talking with Parramatta about a swap deal with Lomax now? Strike while the iron is hot.

In the meantime - Isaiah Papali'i is on the market for what appears to be less than 24 hours, and Penrith have locked in the deal (and just for the record David Fifita and his management didn't even want to talk with us during that saga a fortnight ago).

The point I'm trying to make - the consistently good clubs go out and get sh** done. They realise results mean bums on seats at the ground + TV & Radio ratings for their games (this is not just results on the scoreboard either). Whereas clubs like us, the Eels and the Tigers are relying on their clubs being 'asset rich' and enabling high fives behind closed doors in the boardroom, and they don't really care whether the high fives happen out on the football field or not.

I don't know whether I'm just being impatient? But the pace in which our club acts on what should be standard business practices would not be tolerated in any other industry (well at least not where I work).

there is a loser mindset embedded in the management culture of the organisation, will take something big or it will be a long time before the wheel ever turns.

 

[hewi]

there is a loser mindset embedded in the management culture of the organisation, will take something big or it will be a long time before the wheel ever turns.

Lack of professionalism and an old boys culture.

 

[Dorsai]

I have never been a real fan of the merger deal. It has and continues to divide the club from Board to fan.

It is however what we have and I cannot see a way around that. Instead of continuing to look at how we can divide the board, the club, the grounds, and the fans, it would be best to focus on how we can turn this shite around given the equipment we have at hand and what equipment we can build towards.

Flanagan is a start, so is the signing of Sullivan for recruitment. Nothing however will be done overnight.

Bennett for all his success and coaching techniques, very rarely leaves a club in a better state. Look at how we ended up, as well as newcastle, and Souths. Yes he can get some results, a premiership in our case, but we now, as do the others, live in the aftermarth. I, whilst a fan of his, would not swap the current coach for him.

We have a somewhat roster that can be built upon. We will always loose players to other clubs, as does everyone else. Yes, we are not attracting the players we want either at present but hopefully with some success that will also change. The fact that the media links us with every player off market, regardless of the Dragons actual interest in them, serves no one except the media.

Any new signing should be the right signing and not just because they are off contract elsewhere. I agree that we probably are not as aggressive as we should be, but we do not currently have the gambling chips to get these signings across the board. Success will change that.

We need to focus on success within the means we have and develop.

We would be better off with a wealthy owner who has the cash and wants to spend it on the development of the club, not one who uses it as tax dodge. Someone that can create the third-party payments we all know certain other clubs use to get signings across the board for lower salary cap expenditure. Frankly, I would be happy to see the third-party payments done away with or better accounted for, so the rich clubs do not get all the elite players supposedly signing for less than other clubs have bid. Thats a big reason why we miss some of these signings. Not that the club is bad news.

As far as grounds go, again, its always going to be personal preference between St George fans and Illawarra fans to a degree. I personally prefer Kogarah and would love to see more games there. I really don't think the players play better because its this ground or that ground. Success breeds crowds and that will fill grounds regardless of location.

As I said previously, I am an old St George fan and would love to just see the St George Dragons, but we have to acknowledge the other side of the venture and so its either just the Dragons or the St George Illawarra Dragons. We are too far down the track to loose a proportion of the fan base either way.

I certainly acknowledge that we will have differing opinions and I respect the fact that we can all at least have our say and put our thoughts forward to bring the club closer together, regardless of where which side of the coin they are.

 

[Slippery Morris]

Saints are trying to bring in Peter O'Sullivan for head of recruitment and a gun junior in Blaize Talagi. Sounds like they are starting to make good choices to me. Price, Mary and Hook have done so much damage and the Dragons have tried to bring in a heap of players and failed because of the mediocre years under the 3 dud coaches.

I feel that since Lancaster has come in Saints are making better decisions in who to bring to the club yet it breaks down when it comes to the negotiations. That is where they hit road blocks. Whether that is Haran I am not sure. It could be Flanno as he puts a value on a player and does not budge when they ask for more.

A win tonight against the dogs will really have players starting to take Saints more seriously when they come up against them in negotiations as they have lost out to them or picked up their rejects. If KFlanno and Raymond fire up which I am hoping for it will show Saints future is looking better than what they are being given credit for by journos.

 

[Dragon David]

The State of the Nation as far as the Dragons is concerned is that Flanno is seeking which are the guys currently in the squad who are prepared to put body and soul for the club and want to be at the Dragons. It took some time to eventually re-sign Su'A and as yet we haven't re-signed Sloan nor De Belin but somehow I think their re-signings will happen if they really want to be at the club.

In the meantime, we haven't as yet got Peter O'Sullivan across the line and we need him or someone of his calibre to get some decent external guys to the club particularly for the years ahead.

So re-signings and new signings have been lagging and it comes back to us again having to be patient and another series of waiting games which is hard when you see these other clubs already signing up guys without any significant dramas. Even Lomax was signed by the Eels without much fuss. We have shown an interest in guys like Blaze Talagi but will we get him - another long drawn out saga?

The State we are in has been much the same for a very long time.

 

[denis preston]

When does Harans contract expire? He is the one common denominator over the past 8 years of shit.

 

[AyiosYiorgos]

When does Harans contract expire? He is the one common denominator over the past 8 years of shit.

This year