Strange new Format thoughts

[IowaRL]

Well, I've been rolling this around in my head for the last week, so I thought I should finally get something down on paper. We see that Super League is looking to reduce down to 12 teams, from 14, and we currently have a 14 team Championship and I believe a 10 team Championship 1 (if we include Coventry). Now, that's a total of 38 teams currently pro, and we will have 2 move out of Super League. If we could add another 2 teams, we could run the following setup.

Super League - 12 teams
Championship - 12 teams
Championship 1 North - 8 teams
Championship 1 South - 8 teams.

This gives us a pyramid of 12, 12 and 16, for a total of 40. With 12 teams, we can see 6 teams go into the playoffs from each, and the top 4 from North and South Champ 1 will go into a joint playoffs.

During the season, both Super League and Championship would play each team Twice, plus another 4 teams a third time. This gives us a total of 26 games for the season. Our 2 Champ 1 leagues play each other three times, and 5 games against the other side of the conference. This gives us a total of 26 games for the season.

For which teams are added, we look to add more teams outside the traditional areas, with the view to potentially add a Scottish team to the Championship 1 N conference. Relegation will occur between each level, with 2 players going up and down, 1 from each of Champ 1 conferences.

Could a system like this work? What do you think?

 

[IowaRL]

A rundown of teams to start with this new format.

Super League
Catalans
Huddersfield
Hull
Hull Kingston
Leeds
Salford
St Helens
Toulouse (Addition from France)
Wakefield Trinity
Warrington
Widnes
Wigan

Championship
Bradford
Castleford
Featherstone
Sheffield
Halifax
Leigh
Doncaster
Workington
Whitehaven
Swinton
Keighley
Batley

Championship 1 North
Scotland Utd (new side)
Barrow
Dewsbury
Rochedale
Hunslet
York City
Oldham
Gateshead

Championship 1 South
North Wales
South Wales
London Skolars
Bramley Broncos (Formerly London)
Hemel Stags
Oxford
Gloustershire
Coventry (new entrant)

 

[WireMan]

A rundown of teams to start with this new format.

Super League
Catalans
Huddersfield
Hull
Hull Kingston
Leeds
Salford
St Helens
Toulouse (Addition from France)
Wakefield Trinity
Warrington
Widnes
Wigan

Ditch Wakey for London and it looks good.

Well, I've been rolling this around in my head for the last week, so I thought I should finally get something down on paper. We see that Super League is looking to reduce down to 12 teams, from 14, and we currently have a 14 team Championship and I believe a 10 team Championship 1 (if we include Coventry). Now, that's a total of 38 teams currently pro, and we will have 2 move out of Super League. If we could add another 2 teams, we could run the following setup.

Super League - 12 teams
Championship - 12 teams
Championship 1 North - 8 teams
Championship 1 South - 8 teams.

This gives us a pyramid of 12, 12 and 16, for a total of 40. With 12 teams, we can see 6 teams go into the playoffs from each, and the top 4 from North and South Champ 1 will go into a joint playoffs.

During the season, both Super League and Championship would play each team Twice, plus another 4 teams a third time. This gives us a total of 26 games for the season. Our 2 Champ 1 leagues play each other three times, and 5 games against the other side of the conference. This gives us a total of 26 games for the season.

For which teams are added, we look to add more teams outside the traditional areas, with the view to potentially add a Scottish team to the Championship 1 N conference. Relegation will occur between each level, with 2 players going up and down, 1 from each of Champ 1 conferences.

Could a system like this work? What do you think?

They may go for a system like this.

Then promotion and relegation between the leagues.

One argument is about Toulouse going straight into the top division. They would have to be exempt from relegation. There is a fair to middling chance London would be for a few years to.

Less home games which clubs need to make money.
An answer is the 4 teams played for a third time could be Millenium magic style. Either an all in scenario which moves to the highest bidder each year or mini versions so the Lancashire clubs have a mini magic somewhere then the next weekend Yorkshire clubs do the same, obv. with the French and London joining in. This would require smaller grounds so could be more flexible where it is played.

The profits of this go to the clubs. You could even throw in a Championship match also, so Leigh join the Lancs and Wakey vs Cas in the Yorks one.


Or you could lose a weeks games and have an international window around Origin time to play the Kiwis. England Knights can join the main squad and play an Islanders team (but that is for a different thread).

 

[IowaRL]

I didn't include London as a top level team as they've been such a basket case over the last decade. I've moved them to championship 1 with the skolars, to get some rivalry going down there.

I like the magic weekend idea, could a range of mini Nines with teams from all 3 levels work?

 

[roughyedspud]

should be 4 leagues of 10 with 1up/1down P&R...

each league would have a magic event or five double headers played "on the road"

each league would also have a "league cup" consisting of 2groups of 5teams with the group stages played on a 4 home & 4away game basis and the top team from each group advancing to a final...

all in all this simple format guarantees each team,in each league, the same number of home games (13) and the same number of total games (27) as last seasons super league season...and most inportantly every club in every league will be playing the same format instead of the absolute c**k up the 3 leagues are at the moment..

but its far too simple a idea to run with...

 

[WireMan]

I didn't include London as a top level team as they've been such a basket case over the last decade. I've moved them to championship 1 with the skolars, to get some rivalry going down there.

I like the magic weekend idea, could a range of mini Nines with teams from all 3 levels work?

Yeah that is fair enough.

The powers want a London team though.


Nines could work, you could play it at a festival of RL with the main draw being Eng vs NZ around origin time...

It would be like a mid winter break in Euro Football..

should be 4 leagues of 10 with 1up/1down P&R...

each league would have a magic event or five double headers played "on the road"

each league would also have a "league cup" consisting of 2groups of 5teams with the group stages played on a 4 home & 4away game basis and the top team from each group advancing to a final...

all in all this simple format guarantees each team,in each league, the same number of home games (13) and the same number of total games (27) as last seasons super league season...and most inportantly every club in every league will be playing the same format instead of the absolute c**k up the 3 leagues are at the moment..

but its far too simple a idea to run with...

Why not just have 8 leagues of 5?

The leagues split by Geography. They play everyone in there group home and away, and everyone else once. Half at home, half away, one at a magic weekend. To be alternated every season.

That should be enough games, Top 2 from each group make the 8 in the playoffs and the playoffs become a worthwhile event that actually proves who the best team in the league is, instead of just making a nonsense of the league like it does now.

The bottom 4 leagues run in a mirror of the top 4 leagues.

Then you have the eventual potential to swap if any of the lower teams get close enough.

 

[roughyedspud]

i stop reading after the 1st line....lol

seriously though...what you've done,like 90% of all league fans,is make a simple idea over complicated...



why do that???

 

[WireMan]

i stop reading after the 1st line....lol

seriously though...what you've done,like 90% of all league fans,is make a simple idea over complicated...



why do that???

Unless you say 4 leagues of 10, each team plays the other teams home and away. The team with the most points wins, the team with the least points gets relegated everything else is just over complicated.

So we should just leave the system like that.

Currently:
We add an 8 team playoff to a simple league of 14.
The top teams can lose and still win.
Clubcall.
The winners of a cup competition are league winners.

RL in Europe is a complicated business.


you think your idea was simple?
You want my team to play in a league, against everyone else home and away and one magic. Then we get another competition inside this league where the additional games come from which doesn't count towards the league, but count towards the league cup.

After finishing the league we play another game to determine who has actually won the league basing entry on the league cup making the actual league games pointless?

Or do we have a league cup winner, a Challenge cup winner and a league winner?

Which means you are basically removing the playoffs and adding an extra cup comp just for revenue purposes?





At least my idea just rips of the NFL. So comes with graphics from CNN...

 

[paulmac]

I may be in the minority but I would prefer a 14 team Super league featuring 12 English teams and 2 Ring fenced French teams.The bottom English side relegated and the second bottom English team into a playoff with the championship runner up.A top Six finals series.So the pyramid would look like 14 - 14 -10.Meaning all leagues would go for 26-27 rounds.

 

[roughyedspud]

Unless you say 4 leagues of 10, each team plays the other teams home and away. The team with the most points wins, the team with the least points gets relegated everything else is just over complicated.

So we should just leave the system like that.

Currently:
We add an 8 team playoff to a simple league of 14.
The top teams can lose and still win.
Clubcall.
The winners of a cup competition are league winners.

RL in Europe is a complicated business.


you think your idea was simple?
You want my team to play in a league, against everyone else home and away and one magic. Then we get another competition inside this league where the additional games come from which doesn't count towards the league, but count towards the league cup.

After finishing the league we play another game to determine who has actually won the league basing entry on the league cup making the actual league games pointless?

Or do we have a league cup winner, a Challenge cup winner and a league winner?

Which means you are basically removing the playoffs and adding an extra cup comp just for revenue purposes?





At least my idea just rips of the NFL. So comes with graphics from CNN...

theres nothing complaicated in having a 10 team league,played home & away,and having play offs (should have made that clear,thought it would be obvious we'd have play offs...we'd still play the challange cup too)....

and theres nothing complicated in having a league cup competition,to pad out the home fixtures ( these would be inclued in season tickets of course)....

its not complicated at all at the moment that ESL,the championship & champ1 all have different formats is it? lol

 

[roughyedspud]

just to add.....cos ive had a few hours to think about it...lol


copying the NFL...and why it won't work here...

the NFL average attendance is around the 70,000 mark and turn over billions of dollars in tv and sponsorship deals..

we are so far away from that its untrue...


take my club oldhams fixtures next season for example,..there times next season where we go a month between home game and cos the NR cup has been scraped we're gonna play some times in our league 3 times....its a absolute shambles and some clubs will go to the wall...more than likely mine.

 

[nadera78]

just to add.....cos ive had a few hours to think about it...lol


copying the NFL...and why it won't work here...

the NFL average attendance is around the 70,000 mark and turn over billions of dollars in tv and sponsorship deals..

we are so far away from that its untrue...


take my club oldhams fixtures next season for example,..there times next season where we go a month between home game and cos the NR cup has been scraped we're gonna play some times in our league 3 times....its a absolute shambles and some clubs will go to the wall...more than likely mine.

To be fair to the RFL, something I rarely say with Nigel in charge, I think it was the clubs who wanted to see the back of the NR Cup.

 

[roughyedspud]

doubt that very much..no championship club,especially championship1 clubs is gonna turn down the extra home games the NRcup guaranteed....


and ive been the RFL biggest fan during the last decade...but since richard lewis left,the RFL have fiddled while rome burns....

 

[WireMan]

just to add.....cos ive had a few hours to think about it...lol


copying the NFL...and why it won't work here...

the NFL average attendance is around the 70,000 mark and turn over billions of dollars in tv and sponsorship deals..

we are so far away from that its untrue...


take my club oldhams fixtures next season for example,..there times next season where we go a month between home game and cos the NR cup has been scraped we're gonna play some times in our league 3 times....its a absolute shambles and some clubs will go to the wall...more than likely mine.

Can we use that argument against any league structure?

Look at the money in the Premiership football, RL is no where near that so lets not bother with a league with promotion/relegation.

NFL has bigger money coming in, but it also has bigger money going out. It is a bigger sport. It works for one comp, it could easily work for another.

theres nothing complaicated in having a 10 team league,played home & away,and having play offs (should have made that clear,thought it would be obvious we'd have play offs...we'd still play the challange cup too)....

and theres nothing complicated in having a league cup competition,to pad out the home fixtures ( these would be inclued in season tickets of course)....

its not complicated at all at the moment that ESL,the championship & champ1 all have different formats is it? lol

Ah i see. So we are going for the 10 team round robin league with a playoff to decide who has just won that league, with a totally random league cup thrown in to make up the number of home games.

The league cup would be seen for what it is, a pointless gimmick for reserve players to get a game. Also given the problems the Challenge cup do we need another cup comp?

 

[roughyedspud]

we need home games....thats all the chairmen are bothered about...and its a extra comp for the RFL to sell sponsorship & tv rights too...i can imagine its something that would interest the bbc for example..

but at the monent all the RFL seemed to be bothered about is super league and the top 3or4 of the championship who might make super league....everyone else is a afterthought and its killing the lower league clubs..

thats why i feel its important that every club plays the same format...fair enough focus on the super league 10,thats where the big money is after all,...but lets give the championship 30 a fighting chance to build a structure that'll invite investment,sponsorship & media interest....

 

[IowaRL]

I think it's vital to look at the overall health of all current 3 tiers, and plan accordingly. I see no reason Hemel shouldn't have the same opportunities to succeed as a club compares to the Leeds and Wigans of the world.

 

[WireMan]

I think it's vital to look at the overall health of all current 3 tiers, and plan accordingly. I see no reason Hemel shouldn't have the same opportunities to succeed as a club compares to the Leeds and Wigans of the world.

I do agree although i think they will never have the same opportunity. The chance of having it should be there.

we need home games....thats all the chairmen are bothered about...and its a extra comp for the RFL to sell sponsorship & tv rights too...i can imagine its something that would interest the bbc for example..

but at the monent all the RFL seemed to be bothered about is super league and the top 3or4 of the championship who might make super league....everyone else is a afterthought and its killing the lower league clubs..

thats why i feel its important that every club plays the same format...fair enough focus on the super league 10,thats where the big money is after all,...but lets give the championship 30 a fighting chance to build a structure that'll invite investment,sponsorship & media interest....

Completely agree their has to be a set structure in place where everyone plays by the same rules in the same structure with the possibility of a lower placed team making it to the top.

I squillionaire may buy Hemel and go for it. They need that pathway to the top.

I personally think 10 teams is to few. To many repetitions of games that will take the edge of it and adding another cup comp is just daft.

We need to make the super league work. If that is going great it makes it easier to sort the lower leagues out.

 

[roughyedspud]

its no different to the NRcup....just instead of 1 final there'll be 4finals.....the bowl comp of the NR cup last season,for championship1 clubs,was a great success.london skolars got to the bowl final,great for them and their fans,tell them its meaningless...and its that type experience thats gonna grow our game....

 

[deluded pom?]

Agreed that all leagues, whatever the format, should be playing to the same rules on and off the pitch. If we have BPs then all leagues have BPs. If we have a five team SL playoff then all divisions have a five team playoff. Consistency throughout the game is all I'm looking for. As said above, teams currently at the bottom of the structure should have the opportunity and the aspiration to reach SL. It might not actually happen but the dream has to be kept alive.

 

[hutch]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/leeds-supremo-urges-super-league-3012455

Leeds supremo urges Super League 'rebels' to back radical new promotion and relegation plan
11 January 2014 10:30 PM By David Burke
Gary Hetherington has urged the five dissenting clubs - Wigan, Warrington, Hull, Hull KR and Huddersfield - to reconsider their stance 'for the good of the game'
Sort it out: Leeds Rhinos chief executive Gary Hetherington
Leeds Rhinos supremo Gary Hetherington is urging the five Super League ‘rebels’ to back plans for a revolutionary promotion and relegation set-up.

Nine top-flight clubs and all the Championship sides support the radical proposal, but at the end of last season champions Wigan, Warrington, Hull, Hull KR and Huddersfield walked out of a meeting before a vote on the scheme could be taken.

Hetherington, who has *transformed Leeds’ fortunes since taking over as chief executive in 2006, said: “We needed a quorum of 10 Super League clubs to take a vote and pass the resolution but only nine stayed.

"There’s another meeting this month and hopefully the issue can be resolved for the good of the game.”

It has already been agreed that the bottom two Super League clubs will be relegated this season, which kicks off on February 7 when Wigan host last year’s table-toppers Huddersfield.

That decision – with London Broncos and *Wakefield Wildcats the current favourites for the drop – will reduce the top flight from 14 to 12 clubs for the first time since 2009.

Hetherington supports a plan for the 12 remaining Super League clubs to play 23 league matches in 2015 – meeting every other club home and away, plus a Magic Weekend fixture.

Then the top eight would go into a play-off system leading to the Old Trafford Grand Final.

The bottom four in Super League would join the top four in the Championship and play an extra seven fixtures against each other – with the leading four among them then promoted to Super League in 2016.

Hetherington added: “It’s obvious that straightforward promotion and relegation doesn’t work and a two-up, two-down format in a 14-club league from 2015 has already been rejected.

“The proposed idea is a halfway house and gives ambitious *Championship clubs the chance to play Super League sides and achieve promotion.”

Super League clubs currently receive £1.2million a year, but the £2.4m earmarked for the 13th and 14th clubs would be used to help Championship clubs have full-time players.

Wigan chairman Ian Lenagan opposes this plan, believing that the Super League clubs should have a greater say in the running of the game and the distribution of television income.

Hetherington had blasted the ‘rebels’ after their *walk-out in October saying: “I have been attending Super League meetings for 17 years and never seen anything like this before.

“It’s appalling that a small number of men can disrupt a proper process by putting a gun to the head of the sport, making selfish, self-interested demands.”

Salford boss Brian Noble also wants decisions made and said: “There is a great momentum in our sport after the fantastic World Cup. It is important that, if we have any problems, we fix the roof whilst the sun is shining.

“I an optimistic about the future because we have a marvellous product. But we need to sort out the domestic strife because we are in limbo at the moment.”