Super 8's

[WireMan]

Sky had nothing to do with the 3 x 8 concept. The clubs wanted more games to generate more money. The clubs voted for it albeit with a bit of blackmail from the RFL.

The rfl hasn't got an idea in them so I reckon sky were in the room somewhere.

Blackmail and bribing teams seems to be how most decisions are passed at the moment.

 

[adamkungl]

I find the cultural difference regarding finals pretty interesting. Most Australians (and Americans i guess but they're on another level with ridiculous 7 game series) don't consider a competition won unless you can do it under the pressure of sudden death finals. Most English prefer first past the post.

 

[adamkungl]

As for the amount of games played, I think you'll find it's at least partially the reason why crowds dipped towards the end. Including the Challenge cup some times can potentially play each other 5 or 6 times in a season by the end. It loses its luster.

Play a home-away season with Magic weekend as the final game rather than an extra.
Play the Challenge Cup final before the halfway point of the season.
Standard top 5 finals for the premiership, and a 4 team round robin for promotion relegation.
That would have teams playing between 23 and 30 games.

 

[emesssea]

I find the cultural difference regarding finals pretty interesting. Most Australians (and Americans i guess but they're on another level with ridiculous 7 game series) don't consider a competition won unless you can do it under the pressure of sudden death finals. Most English prefer first past the post.

Any country whose stick and ball sport's games can last up to 5 days has no right to judge us on our best of 7 series concept.

Joking aside, I believe the cultural differences are down to the vacuum our sports exist in, compared to the one major sports league in England. In our respective countries, regardless of the sport, these competitions are the only ones to compete in, and a round robin competition with to playoffs would get boring quick for most fans as their teams have nothing to play for.

I'm a Baltimore Orioles fan, and it became clear a few weeks ago we weren't going to have the best record in the AL or probably win our division, but it was still intense with the Os competiting against the Blue Jays and Tigers (plus yankees, mariners, and astros) for the 2 wild cards spots all the way till the last day. Under a round robin format all those games would have been meaningless, as there was nothing to play for.

It works for the EPL, because teams aren't just competing for the title, but theyre competing for the CL group spots, the CL playoff spot, and europa league. So even if say ManCity is running away with the title, there are still reasons to watch the other matches, as those races are their version of the playoff race.

Of course, what the 'LLS is the true champion' crowd fail to acknowledge/recognize is for the majority of rugby league's history in england the champion has been decided by playoffs. By all means go back to the era when it wasn't by playoffs, just don't expect the Sky money to follow, and when you're (in the general sense) wondering why your sport is dead at the professional level with all the players abandoning ship for the NRL or Union paychecks, at least you can say the amateur team you support won the round robin league.

 

[WireMan]

There was no round Robin league structure in place back then though. So your argument fails.

Now div 2 has the same salary cap do away with 2 divisions. Have an East and a West conference (with other distant teams in) play each other twice in your league and a few of the others. Playoffs at the end for all.

That would make more sense than an actual league, followed by a cup to determine the league winners. Which is stupid.

The quality tails of but not long ago Warrington were rubbish, Wigan were cheating the cap to avoid relegation and Bradford were dominant. So things go in cycles.

 

[emesssea]

There was no round Robin league structure in place back then though. So your argument fails.

Now div 2 has the same salary cap do away with 2 divisions. Have an East and a West conference (with other distant teams in) play each other twice in your league and a few of the others. Playoffs at the end for all.

That would make more sense than an actual league, followed by a cup to determine the league winners. Which is stupid.

The quality tails of but not long ago Warrington were rubbish, Wigan were cheating the cap to avoid relegation and Bradford were dominant. So things go in cycles.

I'm currently looking at the standings of the 1989-90 Championship where 14 teams played 26 matches each.

 

[siv]

It has been intetesting watchingbthe games for the last few years

Relegation pool of 8 were very interesting this year

But the Top 8 finals were a bore as the top 4 were clear cut. And the 1 week of semis were too short compared to the old 6 team format

 

[deluded pom?]

EPL teams try to avoid winning a Europa Cup place and if they do watch how quickly they get knocked out.

 

[WireMan]

I'm currently looking at the standings of the 1989-90 Championship where 14 teams played 26 matches each.

Did you notice the team that finished top of the league were the champions, or did you skip that part?

 

[WireMan]

It has been intetesting watchingbthe games for the last few years

Relegation pool of 8 were very interesting this year

But the Top 8 finals were a bore as the top 4 were clear cut. And the 1 week of semis were too short compared to the old 6 team format

We should make it top 3.
League champions straight into the final.

 

[emesssea]

Did you notice the team that finished top of the league were the champions, or did you skip that part?

Im not quite sure what your missing, I've already acknowledged that in post 204, but what you failt o acknowledge while posting how the LLS winner is the real champion every chance you get is the fact that the majority of RLs history in england the champion has been decided via playoffs.

Sky and the Superleague didn't bring the concept of playoffs and the Grand Final to English rugby league, they brought it back.

But if the RFL was to buck at Sky and go back to home-away round robin format, it will be the end of the professional game in England, as Sky will cut what it pays, as the number of relevant games will decrease (e.g. round 7 of the Super 8s would have only one relevant match to watch instead of 2).

I wonder is your taking the stance that the LLS winner is the true champion really just a defense mechanism for what you know is the inevitable result of Saturday? You know considering your club has made the grand final twice as the higher seed with point difference of 9 and 6, yet managed to lose by scorelines of 8 and 14.

 

[emesssea]

EPL teams try to avoid winning a Europa Cup place and if they do watch how quickly they get knocked out.

9 out of the 10 clubs the played in the group phase qualifying for the knockout phase over the past 4 seasons would suggest other wise.

 

[WireMan]

Im not quite sure what your missing, I've already acknowledged that in post 204, but what you failt o acknowledge while posting how the LLS winner is the real champion every chance you get is the fact that the majority of RLs history in england the champion has been decided via playoffs.

Sky and the Superleague didn't bring the concept of playoffs and the Grand Final to English rugby league, they brought it back.

But if the RFL was to buck at Sky and go back to home-away round robin format, it will be the end of the professional game in England, as Sky will cut what it pays, as the number of relevant games will decrease (e.g. round 7 of the Super 8s would have only one relevant match to watch instead of 2).

I wonder is your taking the stance that the LLS winner is the true champion really just a defense mechanism for what you know is the inevitable result of Saturday? You know considering your club has made the grand final twice as the higher seed with point difference of 9 and 6, yet managed to lose by scorelines of 8 and 14.

I really have not just started hating on the sky cup. I promise you.
I know the previous results thanks.
It really doesn't alter my thinking.


I am not sure what you are trying to say though. Yes the league champions have been decided by playoffs in the past but not after a round Robin league.

There was another after season cup comp to keep the interest up, but that was never to be crowned champions.

Sky came along and shat on the league to promote the premiership which they re branded the grand final and declared the league winners were not the league winners.

This is not any historical way the league was ran. It was purely to give a sky a big event in October.

The fact you are saying whoever the LLS holder is, (a shield for winning the league)are not league champions just shows the ridiculous set up.
Using a time when there were 30 odd teams in the league as a good example of playoffs working is not really a realistic comparison.

 

[LeedsStorm]

Lack of intensity in any of the games this year hasn't been due to the system, it's because there isn't enough quality across the leagues

I really have not just started hating on the sky cup. I promise you.
I know the previous results thanks.
It really doesn't alter my thinking.


I am not sure what you are trying to say though. Yes the league champions have been decided by playoffs in the past but not after a round Robin league.

There was another after season cup comp to keep the interest up, but that was never to be crowned champions.

Sky came along and shat on the league to promote the premiership which they re branded the grand final and declared the league winners were not the league winners.

This is not any historical way the league was ran. It was purely to give a sky a big event in October.

The fact you are saying whoever the LLS holder is, (a shield for winning the league)are not league champions just shows the ridiculous set up.
Using a time when there were 30 odd teams in the league as a good example of playoffs working is not really a realistic comparison.

You know what? You are absolutely right. It's only fair the team top of the table after playing every other team home and away should be crowned champions.

Wire should give the LLS to Hull.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-league/super-league/table

 

[CC_Roosters]

It has been intetesting watchingbthe games for the last few years

Relegation pool of 8 were very interesting this year

But the Top 8 finals were a bore as the top 4 were clear cut. And the 1 week of semis were too short compared to the old 6 team format

Made a point a few pages back that they could easily tweak the top 8 split to be more sudden death. have each team play 3 games determined by ladder position, after these 3 the 7th and 8th sides seasons are over. the remaining 6 enter a top 6 playoff series

Week 1- 3v6, 4v5
Week 2- 1 v lowest ranked winner, 2 v other side
Week 3- GF

 

[emesssea]

Using a time when there were 30 odd teams in the league as a good example of playoffs working is not really a realistic comparison.

No all just use almost every sport not called soccer as a good example of playoffs working

 

[WireMan]

Lack of intensity in any of the games this year hasn't been due to the system, it's because there isn't enough quality across the leagues


You know what? You are absolutely right. It's only fair the team top of the table after playing every other team home and away should be crowned champions.

Wire should give the LLS to Hull.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-league/super-league/table

Yeah I agree.

The whole super 8s is a silly idea.

If we must do something different then 2 leagues of 12 running parallel with the top teams in a playoff finishing with a super bowl type thing.

 

[WireMan]

No all just use almost every sport not called soccer as a good example of playoffs working

You sound desperate here to make a point that has failed.

Oh and if you want to attract fans in the UK using a system everyone knows would be a start.

What next wire vs Wigan in a best of 7 final? Play over 5 days? What sport would you like emulate?
Sports fans in the UK know football. Introducing a new concept to Northern sports fans sounds like a good plan for growth. No really.

 

[Travitoh]

Yeah I agree.

The whole super 8s is a silly idea.

If we must do something different then 2 leagues of 12 running parallel with the top teams in a playoff finishing with a super bowl type thing.

The issue that i see with that is SL doesn't have the talent to spread across 24 clubs to keep things somewhat even. Either the gap between top and bottom would become excessive or the talent will be diluted to a level of mediocrity, leading to a weaker national team due to a lack of exposure to opposition talent at club level.
I'd go as far as culling the leagues to a 10 or even 8 team competition with standard promotion/relegation and the top 4 playing off to be champions.
All the Super 8 idea does is drag the season out unnecessarily, leaving people to grow bored of the product at around the time that the EPL kicks off and has the most excitement around it.

 

[Travitoh]

I'd consider ending the season earlier (late August/early September) and then hold a 'War of the Roses'. Yorkshire v Lancashire is a huge fixture during the county cricket season and a proper county rivalry could help to spark some interest in the game from neutral and part time supporters. Plus, playing against the best players should lead to better players being produced for the national team, making them stronger which would lead to more interest from the public as they genuinely begin to compete for silverware at an international level.