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The cleanout

hybrid_tiger

Coach
Messages
11,684
There is a lot of anger about Ryan and Heighington potentially leaving but I think people need to look at this realistically.

There was talk last year that the club tried to move both of these players on, to Penrith. At the time, I suspect a large portion of our fans (myself included) were more than happy to let them go. It didn't end up happening.

Fast forward a year later and it now appears to be happening. The only real difference this time is that Ryan is coming off a very good season, without a doubt his best in first grade, and so the masses have gone into a fit of rage.

Look at it this way. Beau Ryan is not an elite NRL winger. Far from it. He's a good, solid, dependable player on his day but he is not a match winner. Yes, I admire his effort and enthusiasm and he's had a great year but realistically this is as good as he's going to get.

Look at the best wingers in the game right now and they are all big, strong and fast. They return the ball like a steamtrain. They make massive metres and are capable of breaking the line at any time. Look at Jorge Tafua the other night against the Cowboys. Ryan can't make that kind of impact. Yes, he's safe, he will catch most bombs, he won't make too many errors but he's not the style of player who can have that sort of impact. In other words, he's expendable.

Heighington is the same. Been an average player for a long while now. Again, I admire his enthusiasm and he's been a great servant for the club but he makes minimal impact in both attack and defense. He's a poor defender on our own line and he is regularly dominated in tackles when carting the ball up. With Fulton in the side, it is my opinion that a quality NRL team can't afford to carry two small backrowers. Fulton is a MUCH better defender.

Ryan and Heighington are both solid first graders but they are not star players, they are not match winners, they are not players who must be retained at all costs. These players are the likes of Farah, Marshall, Woods, Galloway, Lawrence. Yes, some of our star players aren't in very good form but they remain class acts and should be kept at all costs. Ryan and Heighington don't fall into this category. Nor do the likes of Ayshford, Moltzen or any of our other average, nonperforming first graders.

The club has needed a cleanout for years. It's happening. There may be issues with the way its happened, but so far at least, the players who appear to be off aren't irreplaceable.

The REAL issue with this cleanup is that the coach doesn't appear to be in the same position as many of his players. Teflon Tim has been given the broom, but he should be swept up amongst the mess and f**ked off too.
 

Matchball

Bench
Messages
2,971
Seems that Humph will need to go before we can be rid of Sheens.
Get a ceo with balls because ours has none.
 
Messages
1,175
There is a lot of anger about Ryan and Heighington potentially leaving but I think people need to look at this realistically.

There was talk last year that the club tried to move both of these players on, to Penrith. At the time, I suspect a large portion of our fans (myself included) were more than happy to let them go. It didn't end up happening.

Fast forward a year later and it now appears to be happening. The only real difference this time is that Ryan is coming off a very good season, without a doubt his best in first grade, and so the masses have gone into a fit of rage.

Look at it this way. Beau Ryan is not an elite NRL winger. Far from it. He's a good, solid, dependable player on his day but he is not a match winner. Yes, I admire his effort and enthusiasm and he's had a great year but realistically this is as good as he's going to get.

Look at the best wingers in the game right now and they are all big, strong and fast. They return the ball like a steamtrain. They make massive metres and are capable of breaking the line at any time. Look at Jorge Tafua the other night against the Cowboys. Ryan can't make that kind of impact. Yes, he's safe, he will catch most bombs, he won't make too many errors but he's not the style of player who can have that sort of impact. In other words, he's expendable.

Heighington is the same. Been an average player for a long while now. Again, I admire his enthusiasm and he's been a great servant for the club but he makes minimal impact in both attack and defense. He's a poor defender on our own line and he is regularly dominated in tackles when carting the ball up. With Fulton in the side, it is my opinion that a quality NRL team can't afford to carry two small backrowers. Fulton is a MUCH better defender.

Ryan and Heighington are both solid first graders but they are not star players, they are not match winners, they are not players who must be retained at all costs. These players are the likes of Farah, Marshall, Woods, Galloway, Lawrence. Yes, some of our star players aren't in very good form but they remain class acts and should be kept at all costs. Ryan and Heighington don't fall into this category. Nor do the likes of Ayshford, Moltzen or any of our other average, nonperforming first graders.

The club has needed a cleanout for years. It's happening. There may be issues with the way its happened, but so far at least, the players who appear to be off aren't irreplaceable.

The REAL issue with this cleanup is that the coach doesn't appear to be in the same position as many of his players. Teflon Tim has been given the broom, but he should be swept up amongst the mess and f**ked off too.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

The hysteria needs to stop and people need to look at it all rationally.

The cuts are a positive move.
 

Mr Saab

Referee
Messages
27,762
Seems that Humph will need to go before we can be rid of Sheens.
Get a ceo with balls because ours has none.

You had a CEO with "balls" and they were cut off after he wanted to apply KPI's to Teflon.
Sheens owns the place...lock stock and barrel. Which is very unfortunate for the club as they should be in the top 6 all the time.
 

super_coach

First Grade
Messages
5,061
Agreed its the cleanout we had to have and theirs needs to be about another three, but the bottom line we still have Sheens so will things change much???He had to be first punted. Anyway at least he will have some new ears in the change rooms to hear his great words
 

simmo1

First Grade
Messages
5,571
Agree with OP.

Also sick of people saying we shouldn't have let Fifita go - he couldn't even make the team at the end of 2011.
 

Magpies Forever

Juniors
Messages
2,208
I'm quite happy for the clean out but I question the re-signing of Tuqiri. I'm happy with Utai getting an extnesion and would ahve been happy if Ryan did as well but am OK with his leaving. I hope some others are feeling the heat eg Moltzen and Ayshford etc.

However, the wider issue of WT recruitment, retention and 'disposal' policies remains unresolved. It has not looked good some of the things we have done. We should have been honest with Heighington and afforded him a formal crowd farewell, he deserved that. And for Teflon to be the wielder of the broom sticks in my craw. He should be swept up with the others. How much longer can he deflect blame for poor team performance and results? He recruited these players, extended their contracts and protected them. Now he executes them and seems to avoid blame for the team not performing. Hhhmmmmmm........
 
Messages
3,320
I have no problem with a clean out but it should start with Sheens,that would fix 95% of shit that troubling our club.
 

TYGA

Juniors
Messages
365
There is a lot of anger about Ryan and Heighington potentially leaving but I think people need to look at this realistically.

There was talk last year that the club tried to move both of these players on, to Penrith. At the time, I suspect a large portion of our fans (myself included) were more than happy to let them go. It didn't end up happening.

Fast forward a year later and it now appears to be happening. The only real difference this time is that Ryan is coming off a very good season, without a doubt his best in first grade, and so the masses have gone into a fit of rage.

Look at it this way. Beau Ryan is not an elite NRL winger. Far from it. He's a good, solid, dependable player on his day but he is not a match winner. Yes, I admire his effort and enthusiasm and he's had a great year but realistically this is as good as he's going to get.

Look at the best wingers in the game right now and they are all big, strong and fast. They return the ball like a steamtrain. They make massive metres and are capable of breaking the line at any time. Look at Jorge Tafua the other night against the Cowboys. Ryan can't make that kind of impact. Yes, he's safe, he will catch most bombs, he won't make too many errors but he's not the style of player who can have that sort of impact. In other words, he's expendable.

Heighington is the same. Been an average player for a long while now. Again, I admire his enthusiasm and he's been a great servant for the club but he makes minimal impact in both attack and defense. He's a poor defender on our own line and he is regularly dominated in tackles when carting the ball up. With Fulton in the side, it is my opinion that a quality NRL team can't afford to carry two small backrowers. Fulton is a MUCH better defender.

Ryan and Heighington are both solid first graders but they are not star players, they are not match winners, they are not players who must be retained at all costs. These players are the likes of Farah, Marshall, Woods, Galloway, Lawrence. Yes, some of our star players aren't in very good form but they remain class acts and should be kept at all costs. Ryan and Heighington don't fall into this category. Nor do the likes of Ayshford, Moltzen or any of our other average, nonperforming first graders.

The club has needed a cleanout for years. It's happening. There may be issues with the way its happened, but so far at least, the players who appear to be off aren't irreplaceable.

The REAL issue with this cleanup is that the coach doesn't appear to be in the same position as many of his players. Teflon Tim has been given the broom, but he should be swept up amongst the mess and f**ked off too.

HT well said. I wonder why towards the back end of last season Moltzen and Ayshford were close to the best players in the team.
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,384
Poor trasdesman can change his tools as often as he likes....wont make a difference unless hes willing to admit to & learn from mistakes

An act of desperation.
 

Ron's_Mate

Bench
Messages
4,134
I heard Greg Alexander & John Gibbs talking about the Tigers situation this evening. They pretty much agreed that Sheens is getting rid of players to strengthen his own position. By doing this he can show that he is making change and buy some more time to see if it is successful. If he was doing nothing then he would be a good chance oif being forced out.
 

moller

Juniors
Messages
498
Agree, good post.

In saying that - there are far more deserving backs to be shown the door than Beau Ryan - Ayshford, Moltzen, Reddy and so forth.
I also have a bit of a concern in terms of character, but I spose they'll get over it.

If we're getting rid of these sub-standard players and replacing them with (a) better players or; (b) younger, promising players then I don't have much of an issue.
I'm just worried that we're shuffling the chairs on the titanic a bit at the moment. Punting Ryan and (apparently) re-signing Tuqiri is an example of what I'm worried about.

Of course, all of the above is moot as Sheens is the real issue anyway.
 

Eddie.

Bench
Messages
4,188
I agree to a large extent. What have we lost really? A workmanlike, on the slide backrower. A slow winger that is safe and has a dig every week. So in a talent sense, we haven't loss much.

I think people are just venting their anger because the man who should have been shown the door, is now showing players the door whilst he survives the cut again. I can understand the outcry about Ryan to an extent. I agree he is very easily replaceable and we can do better talent wise. However we have reisgned the old broken bus Tuqiri. Maybe Ryan shafted the club by taking a better deal who knows??). When you see cats like Moltzen. Ashford and Blair still in the joint, and a bloke like Ryan who has a dig each week being seemingly shown the door it makes me angry just because I like going each week to watch players that put in for the jersey. I woukd delighted if they told me it was Moltzen and Ashford out the door.

The problem is Sheens has created such a "boys club" mentality that players like Marshall are now likely to be having a big sook like he did when Moltzen was shopped around. The clean out is over due. However this boys club Sheens has created means that the cleanout won't be without some possible big problems. Team harmony problems and "Tigers in crisis" type headlines won't be far away knowing the cosy atmosphere Sheens has created.

For me it keeps going back to 1 man, Sheens. I would have been more then happy to see how the entire list went without him at the helm.
 
Messages
15,353
The clean out is good and all, but where are we going to get the players to replace these guys? I know our 20s are in the prelim, but we can't realistically expect half a dozen of those guys to play first grade next year. It's September not June, all of the match winners you speak of have been snapped up and the only players left are either hacks or good safe players. The only way we are going to sign some match winners is if they are granted releases, which is unlikely to happen.

If we can't get the quality in do we write off 2013? Remember, come Round 1 2013 Benji will be 28 and Robbie will be 29, if we want another premiership out of these 2 we can't write off too many years, if we miss the 8 in 2013 then this time next year Sheens has to be gone.
 

St Hammer

Coach
Messages
16,430
Absolutely hilarious about tiges supporters and cry-baby...earlier this year all and sundry where laughing that Moltzen re-nigged and stayed with his lover.
Dragons dodged a massive bullet when the conman Humphrey's re-nigged on this release...Karma baby
 

BuffaloRules

Coach
Messages
15,674
Absolutely hilarious about tiges supporters and cry-baby...earlier this year all and sundry where laughing that Moltzen re-nigged and stayed with his lover.
Dragons dodged a massive bullet when the conman Humphrey's re-nigged on this release...Karma baby

Yeah but unfortunately you got to keep Soward...
 

St Hammer

Coach
Messages
16,430
Yep...got us a premiership...but my highlight since 2010 is watching you guys choke..and the moltzen hissy fit makes it so so much funnier.
Just funny how you guys now want his head...
 

BuffaloRules

Coach
Messages
15,674
No team could ever have choked as much as you blokes have over the past 30 years...

My highlight this year was watching Moltzen score 3 tries to end your season....
 

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