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The Hayne debate - both sides

Parra Guru

Coach
Messages
14,645
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/the-hayne-debate-both-sides/story-e6frext9-1225780183341


THE decision by the NRL match review committee over the Jarryd Hayne tackle has sparked fierce debate. Here is the case for, and the case against.


THE CASE AGAINST
By Adam Walters
IF ANYONE is in any doubt about whether the rugby league law is an ass, just ask Wests Tigers' Bryce Gibbs. He copped a three-week suspension for dropping his knees into the backside of Parramatta's Luke Burt. To say Gibbs' suspension was a pain in the butt for the Tigers' finals hopes is a massive understatement.
Fast forward to last Friday night, and Jarryd Hayne's knees are slamming into Bulldogs flyer Bryson Goodwin as he crossed for the opening try. In all the debate about Hayne's guilt, the argument about the impact of Goodwin's concussion on the result hasn't even been heard, let alone won or lost.
The fact is Goodwin lost the ball at a crucial time when the Dogs were trying to run out of trouble in their red zone. With 18 minutes remaining and Parramatta leading by just four points, Goodwin made a promising 20-metre dash down the left flank only to lose the ball in a mistake hardly characteristic of his proven security under bombs, or indeed his tryscoring ability.

It's called a turning point, at least in the view of this Bulldogs fan and about 35,000 others at Homebush on Friday night. In the ensuing play, Parramatta crossed the line. Although the try was disallowed after Krisnan Inu knocked on, there could be no mistaking that the Eels had won the second-half arm wrestle, if only on a chicken wing and a prayer.
The gravity of Hayne's offence was recognised immediately by the match officials. A possible eight-point try is not a parking ticket. It's more like a rap for negligent driving. When Hayne was driving his knees into Goodwin, the infatuated supporters of the Prince Charming in the Eels fairytale were quick to point out it was more "careless than malicious. It's ugly when you slow it down''.
They are the same love-struck commentators who wax about the speed of Hayne's devastating attacking play, but it seems the split-second decisions he makes in defence are suddenly more to do with reflexes than brilliance. That's called a bob each way.
There's also a big difference between carelessness and reckless indifference. Put all the bromances to one side and history will show Hayne couldn't cover his line in time to prevent the try and his late note was a very sour one for rugby league.
Bryce Gibbs, Tim Sheens, Cameron Smith, Kevin Moore, Goodwin and legions of Tigers and Dogs fans are fully entitled to question why foul play should be so handsomely rewarded. After a long season, the pickings don't come much richer than a semi-final win, a Grand Final and an unlikely chance to star in it.

THE CASE FOR
By Andrew Webster
JARRYD Hayne is hard to read at the best of times, and we're not necessarily talking about his freakish ability on the football field that seems to ratchet up a notch every single time he touches the ball.
At the media conference after last Friday night's preliminary final win over the Bulldogs, Hayne wore the same old poker face he often puts on with the press, oozing Windies-like cool.
When he was asked whether he thought he would escape censure from the match-review committee for his clumsy fourth-minute challenge on Bulldogs winger Bryson Goodwin, he just shrugged it off.
He could've been bluffing - he could've been quaking in his red boots for all we know - but yesterday Greg McCallum and his offsiders made the common-sense call and slapped him with a grade-one charge, setting him free to play in the Grand Final.
Of course, it was the right result, but what has come out of this slight dramatic twist in the lead-up to what should be an epic decider is that when it comes down to handing out gradings, the match review committee may as well use the paper-rock-scissors method.

There have been 10 players charged for dangerous contact with their legs or feet this season, including Johnathan Thurston's wayward boot in the in-goal during Origin III.
The clampdown was put on at the start of the year in response to Melbourne Storm fullback Billy Slater's penchant for sliding in with his feet in a last-ditch attempt to prevent a try. Ironically, Slater hasn't been charged with the offence this season.
It's a justified call from the game's suits, yet there was sufficient concern over the weekend that the vagaries of the judiciary system might rob the Grand Final of the best thing the game has going for it right now. Luckily, it has not, because Hayne is in form rarely witnessed.
It's fair to suggest that we haven't seen someone consistently perform supernatural feats on the football field since Andrew Johns was overwhelming the competition at the start of the millennium. The hyperbole comes thick and fast when a player is dominating matches like this, but it will only be put in true context if Parramatta win the competition.
Champion individuals deliver premierships. Johns delivered two of them. For all the trickery, for all the exhilarating moments that Hayne has brought us this season, his greatness will be ultimately judged in whether he can seal the deal.
Of course, he's only 21. There's a whole career there to be played out. And you suspect this won't be his last Grand Final.
Thankfully, commonsense has prevailed and for the time being we are blessed to see what he can do in this one.
 

Parra Guru

Coach
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14,645
Walters response is hilarious. Trying to blame Hayne for Bryce's errors. I didn't know Goodwin was so flawless. Considering he was willing to go into bat for Jarryd at the judiciary, I'm sure he would be embarrassed by those comments.
 
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forward pass

Coach
Messages
10,209
How come everyone wants to compare to Bryce Gibbs tackle? They are so different it's not funny.

Burt ran a distance before putting the ball down in the Gibbs incident - this was a scramble and happened incredibly quickly.

The problem here is that everyone keeps watching the slow motion replay which is ludicrous. Watch it in real time and tell me what Hayne was supposed to do.
 
Messages
3,122
I wish people/journalists/idiots would stop comparing Gibb's act to Hayne's. There is nothing similar between them as explained perfectly by a host of people more highly qualified people than me.
 

strider

Post Whore
Messages
78,834
How come everyone wants to compare to Bryce Gibbs tackle? They are so different it's not funny.

Burt ran a distance before putting the ball down in the Gibbs incident - this was a scramble and happened incredibly quickly.

The problem here is that everyone keeps watching the slow motion replay which is ludicrous. Watch it in real time and tell me what Hayne was supposed to do.

we rest our case your honour


also keep in mind, gibbs only ended up with the max weeks out because they contested it and lost - no early plea discount
 
Messages
3,609
I have made 3 posts to the crap that Dean Ritchie wrote, and not one of them has been posted in the comments.

Something is not right - looks like they are only posting comments that say the decision is a joke.

Dean Ritchie needs to lose his bulldogs scarf & beanie, and accept his team were beat on their merits...
 

mickdo

Coach
Messages
17,355
So Hayne was responsible for every mistake Goodwin would have made after the incident? :lol:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the ball knocked out by a Parra player hitting him?
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
What a terrible article. Both writers just play to emotions rather than the facts on hand, which is how the judiciary decides.
 

strider

Post Whore
Messages
78,834
i'm also sick of people trying to use the cameron smith thing as a comparison

smith tried to f**kin' ram a guy into the ground by grabbing hold of his head - undeniably a diliberate act - and an exact copybook example of what the NRL was hell bent on trying to remove from teh game for 12 months .... smith was a f'n idiot
 

Parra Guru

Coach
Messages
14,645
So Hayne was responsible for every mistake Goodwin would have made after the incident? :lol:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the ball knocked out by a Parra player hitting him?

:lol: You'd think he was ET the way he's talking him up.
 

mickdo

Coach
Messages
17,355
i'm also sick of people trying to use the cameron smith thing as a comparison

smith tried to f**kin' ram a guy into the ground by grabbing hold of his head - undeniably a diliberate act - and an exact copybook example of what the NRL was hell bent on trying to remove from teh game for 12 months .... smith was a f'n idiot

Smith was undone by having a 50% loading. If he wasn't such a dirty player he wouldn't have missed the GF.
 

parra pete

Referee
Messages
20,608
I have made 3 posts to the crap that Dean Ritchie wrote, and not one of them has been posted in the comments.

Something is not right - looks like they are only posting comments that say the decision is a joke.

Dean Ritchie needs to lose his bulldogs scarf & beanie, and accept his team were beat on their merits...

Actually he is called Bulldog because he looks like a bulldog....
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
28,814
Smith was undone by having a 50% loading. If he wasn't such a dirty player he wouldn't have missed the GF.
Exactly! I'm sick of people trying to make the comparison. Smith missed out because he's dirty, he had intention and his attack was much worse than Hayne's
 

Bigfella

Coach
Messages
10,102
The biggest point of difference between Gibbs and Hayne is that Luke Burt had the ball for fifty metres while Gibbs chased. There was no excuse to be contesting with feet or knees.

In the Hayne incident, the ball was kicked through and was on the ground being contested for a try. Players had split seconds to react. No one knew Goodwin had the ball until he got his hand to it.

Grothe and Hayne both dived to contest the footy. Both tried to smother it with their bodies and both had knees ' legs extended to some extent.

If this was a regular season chance you wouold consider contesting to avoid.

As for keating, the attacking player's monmentum was never slowed. He was breaking the tackle and both tacklers grabbed what they could. The incident looks worse because it appears Keating uses two hands to wrench Hannant's arms. On slow mo you can see one hand is Keatings and one is Hindmarsh's. Keatings other hand is on his lower body. It was just an unfortunate set of circumstances that led to the injury. Shouldn't have been charged at all IMO.
 

Mickyd39

Juniors
Messages
1,547
What is there to debate.

it was classed as a grade 1 offence. if he takes an early guilty plea he can play.

he has taken the early guilty plea and is playing.

End of debate.

GO PARRA
 

parrachilean31

Juniors
Messages
232
Reading through the daily telegraph i was outraged at the comments. Dean ritchie obviously a bulldogs fan i guess there are just sore loosers out there using every excuse in the world to make the eels look like the bad guys of the nrl .
 

parra pete

Referee
Messages
20,608
Reading through the daily telegraph i was outraged at the comments. Dean ritchie obviously a bulldogs fan i guess there are just sore loosers out there using every excuse in the world to make the eels look like the bad guys of the nrl .


Does that make them 'scab pickers'? -
 

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
101,209
Hayne was charged fairly...he did everything he could to avoid collecting Goodwin but he was still careless. The difference between him and Gibbs is pretty much their records; Gibbs is a thug who cops 4-5 weeks every year, Hayne had one minor charge carrying over. If Hayne was a thug like Gibbs he'd be missing three weeks as well...he's not, so the system favours him and rightly so
 
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