The Reason StGeorge Illawarra cant play at Kogarah!

[imported_Saint_Benny1]

The reasons StGeorge Illawarra can't play at Kogarah is three fold.
The first reason is that we don't have lights, an NRL criteria and the council who reckons they are so behind StGeorge will not give us a permit to have lights (permanent or ones we can bring in just for the night). So the problem is that with the NRL's five week scheduling of matches if given a night game would have to find an alternate venue within five weeks. This would be a logistical nightmare trying to re organise season tickets, corporate facilites and all other aspects that go into staging a Rugby League clash of first grade standard.
The second is that one of Kogarah's great aspect is its hill but to play there again permanately and meet NRL criteria this is where we will have to build a new stand and this in itself would be a problem with council approval (good luck consodering local residents) and if you get through that who is goping to pay for it as the council won't, StGeorge or StGeorge Illawarra can't afford it and StGeorge Leagues club who leases the ground have indicated they will not pay for a new grandstand.
The third reason is an economical one. There were rumours circulating that StGeorge would play a handful of games at Kogarah in season 2002 and this was given more than strong consideration but in the end was logistically impossible. The effort and work that would have to go into trying to arrange corporate facilities, season ticketing and other aspects is, logistically impossible and to make it work Kograh would have to host a minium of five games to make it work.
The Kogarah issue is not dead but alot of thinking and work has to go into it to make it work. On a brighter note a big congratulations has to go to Robert Stone and the StGeorge club. When Robert took over as CEO the ground was in a disgusting state with pot holes the order of the day. Now it is a brilliant surface and a lot of money and work has been put into it and would be one of if not the best surface for rugby league in this country

 

[imported_Outlaw]

When Robert took over as CEO the ground was in a disgusting state with pot holes the order of the day. Now it is a brilliant surface and a lot of money and work has been put into it and would be one of if not the best surface for rugby league in this country.

Yeh great! What's the point in mentioning that when no games can be played there? It maybe good for a postcard shot, but not much more else.

 

[Willow]

I think its abundantly important that the debate continues on the Kogarah issue.

It matters not that there is disagreement as long as the debate remains on the agenda.

With respect, that last point says it all.
Kogarah Oval is the best if not one of the Rugby League surfaces in the country.
I think that was the gist of the statement. If this is the opinion of the club, then why aren't they working towards overcoming the reasons against playing at Kogarah?

In regards to lights, I'm not sure about that. The upcoming soccer match starts its program at 5pm.Correct me if I'm wrong but that sounds like there is going to befootball(round ball)under lights next month at Kogarah.
I know there is a chance thatthe lighting (if any) will be temporary and not up to 'NRL' standard but to my way of thinking, this is not an unsurmountable hurdle.

"The second is that one of Kogarah's great aspect is its hill but to play there again permanately and meet NRL criteria this is where we will have to build a new stand..."
I dont think there is a problem with sacrificing the eastern hill side of the ground if it means getting back Kogarah. I'm pretty sure that this idea would be very acceptable to the pro R2K campaign.

In regards to the grandstand...my understanding is that the council is bit dirty on the club for not looking after the existing$20mil western stand which was built in the late 80s using rate payers money. The deal was that the club was supposed to be responsible for maintenance and ultimately didnt hold up their end of the bargain. The stand was allowed to get into a run down stateand now the club is pointing the finger at the council. The council is by no means perfect but they are understandbly shy about throwing more money at a rich rugby league club. Apparently, this is major factor as to why the council will not pay for a second grand stand. Once again, this is not an unsurmountable problem and once again, it is a hurdle which can be solved with a committed approach.

This grandstand issue blends into the third point about corporate boxes and financial viability. Once a second grandstand is built, the ground will meet the criteria in all quarters.
While you say the Leagues Club will not put up thecollateral, I ask why? The 'clubhouse' isprofitable because of the team and the supporters. It was built on the strength of successes on the football field. In my opinion, the Leagues club owes the Football club a great debt.
Once again, this is a problem which we can overcome as long as there is committment from those at the top.

As long asthere is a lack of will to see us return to Kogarah, then clearly, we will never return to Kogarah. The trick, it seems, is to re-install that will to succeed.
I say 'succeed' because the Dragons have done just that at Kogarah. No other Rugby League team has enjoyed as much success as Saints have enjoyed at Kogarah. In my opinion, it is no coincidence that the club has struggled without Kogarah.

I'm not saying we abandon anyfive year or eight year plans to build up the Illawarra, I think it is very important that this strong association between the two districts continues. 50% to Wollongong, 50% to St George...thats not asking too much but you could be excused for thinking that some officials view this as an unexceptable demand.

What I am saying is that we do not abandon St George. Sadly, we keep hearing form the club the reasons why we CAN'T play at Kogarah. For once, I'd like to hear some the reasons why we CAN play at Kogarah.

Then and only then will I believe that the club is truly committed to the St George district as much as they are to the Illawarra.

 

[Stalin]

Benny Barrett, with all respect, I think I know more about what happens around the club than you do.
It is not a discredited criteria that stops us from going back to Kogarah. It is not the council ( who have it in their interest to get us back to Jubilee) that stop us from playing there. Put simply, it is the club that prevents us from playing at Kogarah, because for whatever reason, they do not want to play there.

 

[imported_Clan McLean]

"the council who reckons they are so behind StGeorge will not give us a permit to have lights (permanent or ones we can bring in just for the night)."

Benny Barrett, when have Kogarah Council ever knocked back a night match at Kogarah Oval? When have Kogarah Council said that we can't hire lights for a night match?

These are recent examples of night matches at Kogarah:

1998 : Auckland, Brisbane & Illawarra.

What about the match against the Sharks in 1999? Kogarah Council didn't have any objections to the Newcastle match going ahead in 1999 either.

Benny, are you actually able to provide examples?

 

[thekellygang]

There can't be any worthwhile discussion about Kogarah, without mentioning:-
a. the drop of pokie revenue on game day (30%)
b. the possibility the directors would be personally sued if there was an injury on the hill
c. State Government contract with Stadium Australia that there would be no developments within a c ertain radius.
d. A man on the board who has put in print his dislike for football.
e. an idealogical commitment to not draw funds from the Leagues Club for something like Stadiums that the Club can never own.
Benny, please ask your sources about these matters. It might be what you are saying is the official reasons but what i am saying is the real ones

 

[Willow]

G'day kellygang.

"b. the possibility the directors would be personally sued if there was an injury on the hill"
This one should be easy enough to put to bed. Public liability insurance (which I think would be mandatory in this case) would make it just about impossible for any director to be sued. The only exceptions being if the directors were found to be deliberately neglecting their responsibilities in a criminal manner. I'm inclined tothink that this isquite unlikely.

A drop in pokie revenue on game day? Is that right? I would have thought any match at Kograh would see more people coming into the area and more making their way across the road before and after the match. I dont really know - thats a new one to me.

 

[TheSaint]

Returning all of St George's Sydney home games to Kogarah will probably never happen. The argument from theClub is , they can at least play some of these lesser games at Kogarah.that Kogarah Oval is not suitable for all our supporters - translated, not enough corperate seating. Well corperates don't want to see Saints vs Auckland, Canberra, Wests, Penrith, North Queensland etc... Now if they aren't going to do anything about finding a real sloution,due to a lack of interest and a general disregard for the supporters

Richmond in the AFL last year realised a certain home game was going to return a loss profit wise (against Fremantle I think). They took the game to Tasmania where it sold out the local ground down there and they made a profit on the game. This is something St George should be doing. Penrith at the SFS might draw 10,000 if your lucky. At Kogarah, you'll see 15,000 just because it's Saints and a t Kogarah. For a start, they can at least give us that.

To improve Kogarah Oval probably isn't as hard as they make it out to be. The club for starters could purchase some of those large portable lights. When they are not being used, they could hire them out. It might even turn out that the things would eventually pay for themselves. Bucket seats could replace the benches.

 

[Stalin]

As far as directors getting sued, even if they could get sued (which I doubt), they do have rather high indemnity, meaning they would not have to pay out any lawsuit if they were sued.
As far as Poker machine revenue is concerned, even if you could prove that poker machine revenue at the Taj goes down on game days, that argument is futile. It is the Leagues Club that bends over backwards for the Football Club, not the other way around.

 

[Take-me-home]

I just joined the legendsforum today and am thrilled that there is soccer at Kogarah Oval. This is a major step in the right direction and the Leagues Club should be congratulated for this initiative.

Wouldn't it be wonderful to see the St.George Saints in the NSL down the track?

Benny, I agree that the grass is looking good at Kogarah, but shouldn't it? Isn't this part of the Club's lease agreement? However, well done to Robert Stone and hopefully he kicked the backside of the clown who was responsible for Kogarah before he was appointed. I'd like to see this man appointed as St.George-Illawarra CEO once his boss goes off to his next post.

So, is anyone else on here going to the night Soccer at Kogarah?

 

[imported_Saint_Benny1]

Despite what people may think i want all games to be played at Kogarah - well at least Sydney games.
And for the lighting - NRL criteria requires permanent light fixtures and in the past has knocked back proposals to establish permanet light dwellings - they are the facts!

 

[imported_Gorilla]

There's a couple of points here.
NRL criteria requires improved grandsatnd seating (and thus corporate boxes), permanent lighting and a warm-up field. All of which could be provided by the development of the hill with carparking within. Whether other grounds getby without meeting criteria is another question.
I'm not going to enter the less straightforward discussions about board members and desires to not play at Kogarah - I don't know them at all.
thekellygang mention the Stadium Australia contract - this shouldn't be an issue as that is for 'competative' stadiums, and they have to be either 35,000 or 50,000 (I can't remember), so that's out.
Insurance for directors isn't a problem as they can have indemnities and public liability, and the directors are exempt from just about anything except neglect and that's easily covered by having a maintenance regime.
I think it's a matter of getting the capital to develop and being prepared to settle for, say a 30 year lease, in return for the investment. Only half the home games need be played in Sydney and Kogarah needs more activity. like soccer and rugby to be commercially valid (and commuinty acepted).
As for lights, the current licence/lease allows lights to be erected for events with Council's permision and I don't think its ever been withheld - its just that the portable lights are so scabby and the TV doesn't like them, honestly Henson Park (GO YOU BLUE OWLS !) has beeter lights (made for TV in 1970s).

And, as Willow said (I won't bother trying to add to it)
As long asthere is a lack of will to see us return to Kogarah, then clearly, we will never return to Kogarah. The trick, it seems, is to re-install that will to succeed.
I say 'succeed' because the Dragons have done just that at Kogarah. No other Rugby League team has enjoyed as much success as Saints have enjoyed at Kogarah. In my opinion, it is no coincidence that the club has struggled without Kogarah.
I'm not saying we abandon anyfive year or eight year plans to build up the Illawarra, I think it is very important that this strong association between the two districts continues. 50% to Wollongong, 50% to St George...thats not asking too much but you could be excused for thinking that some officials view this as an unexceptable demand.
What I am saying is that we do not abandon St George. Sadly, we keep hearing form the club the reasons why we CAN'T play at Kogarah. For once, I'd like to hear some the reasons why we CAN play at Kogarah.
Then and only then will I believe that the club is truly committed to the St George district as much as they are to the Illawarra.
So, get onto the Club and ask 'em what their plans are to return and get over to that R2K site
http://www.r2k.info/
see yuz at the matchuz, cuz, Guz

 

[Macca]

Just to add to the posts in support of a return to kogarah such as Willow, and Gorilla.

NRL CRITERIA = NO SUCH THING / NOT APPLICABLE!!!!!!!!!!!

Souths proved that and the court judgement still remains that way.

 

[imported_Clan McLean]

Benny, I don't think anyone was saying that you were against Kogarah. Your previous statements have never reflected that. I was still after an answer tothis question though:

Benny Barrett, when have Kogarah Council ever knocked back a night match at Kogarah Oval? When have Kogarah Council said that we can't hire lights for a night match?

 

[Willow]

Some interesting points and opinions have been raised and I'd like to extend a few of those points.
Mainly:

1.) The NRL criteria is no longer a binding issue. Souths returning to Redfern Oval is testimony to that.
2.) The council will not knock back Kogarah for lighting although the real test will be if they are in favour of permanent lighting.
3.) The Leagues Club is obliged to assist the Footy club. Not by law but by convention. IMO, the Football club should be putting truckloads of pressure on the Leagues Club to put up some collateral (not money) and underwrite any development at Kogarah. The Leagues Club has cash flow but more importantly, it is asset rich.
This is notgift but a bank loan which the both clubs can repay. The upshot being that the sky will not fall in and Kogarah becomes a more valuable assetto the lease holders, ie Saints.
4.) The development of an eastern stand at Kogarah would not lead to directors being sued orpokie revenue dropping. Moreover, such a development would not be met with opposition from the NRL or Stadium Australia or even the local council.
5.) Not properly raised yet but the local residents are supposed to ready to take the streets over this. The upcoming soccer match seems to make a mockery of that belief.
6.) One final point for now...we all agree that 50/50 is not asking too much. We would even be happy with aone or two'token' games at this point. If we had just one game at Kogarah in 2002,I would be delighted. This shows how muchI want to see Kogarah alive again.
IMO, one game at Kogarah would be packed to the rafters.

Is there a reason why the club wont even commit to one game?

 

[imported_Saint_Benny1]

The League clubs of Illawarra and Stgeorge run the football team - apart from Peter Doust all are either on Leagues club board or work for the leagues club or steelers club - who ever has the money holds the power - FACT
If they don't want to put needed money into Kogarah they'll come up with reasons to keep them away - FACT
In the past no they have not objected to having lights but i know for a fact the local residents spit chips - FACT , so the council may have spat chips
StGeorge Illawarra will do the right thing by the NRL and abide by NRL criteria for fear of punishment so unless something is done to Kogarah we won't play there - FACT
answer all your questions

 

This message has been deleted by the manager or assistant manager.

 

[Willow]

Fair enough Benny. As I said, this is an issue that deserves debate.
I don't thinkanyone here istaking you to task on those points.
The questions are about the acceptability of this situation.

 

[imported_Saint_Benny1]

I don't agree with not playing at Kogarah!
But i am telling you the club's point of view and the facts!
Thats all and they are the facts!
I would love nothing more than playing at Kogarah - i am one of the biggest supporters but realistically i believe it never to be the case!

 

[thekellygang]

Still no-one is talking about the supposed 30% drop in pokie revenue. Arre we not playing at kogarah because of what the general manager of the club decrees????