The root cause

[Since 73]

This has been debated ad nauseum in many different threads.
Now it has its own thread.
What these guys say - for me - is the sole and only reason why we have gone from a firm top 4 side to where we are today.
And its flow on effect has affected every other players form, bar 1 or 2.

 

[bluefox68]

This has been debated ad nauseum in many different threads.
Now it has its own thread.
What these guys say - for me - is the sole and only reason why we have gone from a firm top 4 side to where we are yoday.
And its flow on effect has affected every other players form, bar 2 1 or 2.

Agreed with EVERYTHING they said…

Were they suggesting that we need to offload a half and try to upgrade?

That’s all very well, but there is just NO-ONE available! Look at Newcastle, Dargons, etc…

 

[2012....Sharks Year]

Yep….how good were the dogs on the weekend….lol. And you’re right it has been debated ad-nauseum elsewhere. Dead horse. Let’s see how the rest of the season pans out.

 

[Special K]

Hey so the data doesn't support this at all. Go look at the analytics for the best 6 and 7 combination based on try assists, line breaks etc. We came out on top so I said base it on points scored and got;

Summary Table​

Team	No. 6 (FE) Points	No. 7 (HB) Points	Combined Total	League Rank (HB)	Comment
Cronulla Sharks	Trindall 29 pts ~64th	Hynes 136 pts ~5th	165 pts	Hynes is 5th	Only halves duo with combined > 160

"

Final Verdict​

While Hynes is one of the top halfbacks for points scored, and Trindall adds some contributions, their combined total of 165 points is indeed the highest scoring halves pairing in 2025.


So if your evaluation metric is points scored by the halves pairing, then yes, Cronulla’s Trindall & Hynes remain the best duo in 2025.


"

It is lazy to say a 20 point sharks win isn't good enough when Bronocs, NZ, Dogs bottle etc. We have their own issues. The halves aren't it. Get me a metric they fail at and I will accept it.


When we lose it is when AFB makes 200m and the next best is Raimen at 120 or something. Fix the forwards. Get Brailey jumping out of DH. He brings NH and Tricky onto the ball.

I even quizzed the data on kicking

" Verdict: Which Actual 2025 Halves Duo Leads in Kick Metres?​

Since Jarome Luai is no longer partnered with Nathan Cleary in 2025, the Cleary–Luai combination isn't valid for this season.


Therefore, the top actual kicking duo in 2025 is:

Braydon Trindall (five‑eighth) & Nicho Hynes (halfback) – Cronulla Sharks​

• They amassed the highest combined kick metres (~10,334 m) among active halves combinations in 2025 National Rugby League+12Zero Tackle+12Zero Tackle+12Zero Tackle.

Despite Luai’s departure, this Sharks pairing now stands alone at the top for halves kicking output."

I quizzed it on Luai as Panthers won it last year.

So all factored together I asked the data "
which halves duo leads the nrl in factors that contribute to points?"

In the 2025 NRL season, the best halves combination in terms of factors that directly contribute to points—such as try assists, linebreak assists, and kick metres—is the Cronulla Sharks' pairing of Braydon Trindall (No. 6) and Nicho Hynes (No. 7).

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Key Point-Scoring Metrics for Trindall & Hynes​

• Try Assists:
  • Nicho Hynes: 15 try assists across 18 games, averaging 0.83 per game, ranking 7th in the NRL.
  • Braydon Trindall: 13 try assists across 18 games, averaging 0.72 per game, ranking 10th in the NRL.
  • Combined Total: 28 try assists, the highest combined total for any active halves pairing in 2025.
• Linebreak Assists:
  • Nicho Hynes: 15 linebreak assists across 18 games, averaging 0.83 per game.
  • Braydon Trindall: 13 linebreak assists across 18 games, averaging 0.72 per game.
  • Combined Total: 28 linebreak assists, again the highest combined total for any active halves pairing.
• Kick Metres:
  • Nicho Hynes: 3,675 metres across 18 games, averaging approximately 204 metres per game.
  • Braydon Trindall: 6,659 metres across 18 games, averaging approximately 370 metres per game.
  • Combined Total: 10,334 metres, the highest combined total for any active halves pairing.

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Comparison with Other Leading Halves Combinations​

Team	No. 6 (FE) Kick Metres	No. 7 (HB) Kick Metres	Combined Kick Metres	Combined Try Assists	Combined Linebreak Assists
Cronulla Sharks	6,659	3,675	10,334	28	28
Melbourne Storm	Cameron Munster (FE)	Jahrome Hughes (HB)	9,000+	34	32
South Sydney	Cody Walker (FE)	Jamie Humphreys (HB)	8,000+	27	25

Note: The combined totals for Melbourne Storm and South Sydney are estimates based on available data and may not be as precise as those for the Sharks.

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Conclusion​

While other combinations like Jahrome Hughes and Cameron Munster of the Melbourne Storm have impressive individual statistics, the Cronulla Sharks' Trindall and Hynes pairing leads the NRL in combined metrics that directly contribute to points. Their synergy in try assists, linebreak assists, and kick metres makes them the most effective halves combination in the 2025 season.


If you're interested in a deeper analysis of their performance metrics or comparisons with other combinations, feel free to ask!

 

[bad boy bubby]

I'm sorry all that listen did was confirm to me that all these outside podcasts do is copy each other ad verbatim.
I said something at the beginning of the season. When you watch the game at the ground you can actually see more clearly that Hynes is in fact the main half. He is the one directing the play about.
I've watched games on the screen and get what others think they see, but you cannot see the full picture of the game. The players yelling out, directing etc.

These guys are just fulfilling a narrative they think they have to do to keep up with the Jones'. And they aren't the only ones, I'm talking from former Internationals down to Farcebook skidmarks.

 

[Special K]

I'm sorry all that listen did was confirm to me that all these outside podcasts do is copy each other ad verbatim.
I said something at the beginning of the season. When you watch the game at the ground you can actually see more clearly that Hynes is in fact the main half. He is the one directing the play about.
I've watched games on the screen and get what others think they see, but you cannot see the full picture of the game. The players yelling out, directing etc.

These guys are just fulfilling a narrative they think they have to do to keep up with the Jones'. And they aren't the only ones, I'm talking from former Internationals down to Farcebook skidmarks.

THIS!

The narrative is lazy. The stats don't support it. The boring shit games make it an easy take. Go fix it sure but the halves are not the issue.

 

[Special K]

Ok so having some fun. My question;

"compare every possible metric for an nrl 7 in the 2025 season? Can you rank the best 7 based on every available stat?"

"Here’s a ranking of the best No. 7 halfbacks in the 2025 NRL season, evaluated comprehensively across all available stats that directly contribute to points and game impact—including try assists, line‑break assists, kick metres, points scored, and line breaks, based on Zero Tackle and Legz data.​

Rank	Player	Team	GP	Try Assists (TA/game)	LBA (Total)	Kick Metres (2025)	Total Points	Line Breaks (LB)
1	Jahrome Hughes	Storm	18	1.13 (18 TA) (Zero Tackle)	High (top LBA ranks)	~? (moderate) (not top kick metres) (Zero Tackle, Zero Tackle)	—	—
2	Isaiya Katoa	Dolphins	18	1.00 (18 TA) (Zero Tackle, Zero Tackle)	Strong	8211 m (League leader) (Legz)	—	—
3	Nicho Hynes	Sharks	18	0.83 (15 TA) (Zero Tackle, Zero Tackle)	Top LBA	3,675 m	136 pts	—
4	Jamal Fogarty	Raiders	17	0.88 (15 TA) (Zero Tackle, Zero Tackle)	High	~8200 m (avg 476 m/game) (Legz)	140 pts	—
5	Adam Reynolds	Broncos	17	0.88 (15 TA) (Zero Tackle, Zero Tackle)	Good	moderate	142 pts	—
6	Luke Metcalf	Warriors	15	0.60 (9 TA) (Zero Tackle, Zero Tackle)	Rising	—	117 pts	—
7	Sandon Smith	Roosters	15	0.47 (7 TA) (Zero Tackle, Zero Tackle)	Lower	—	120 pts	—

Metric Highlights for the Leading Halfbacks​

Try Assists (Creativity & Setup)​

• Hughes leads with 1.13 TA/game and 18 total assists — highest overall. nrl.com+10Zero Tackle+10Legz+10
• Katoa follows at exactly 1.00 TA/game (18 games).
• Hynes, Fogarty, and Reynolds each notched 15 try assists (~0.88/game).

Kicking Metres (Territory Control)​

• Katoa amassed 8,211 kick metres, the highest of any halfback. Zero Tackle+15Legz+15Zero Tackle+15espn.com.au+6nrl.scplaybook.com.au+6Zero Tackle+6
• Fogarty closely behind with ~8,100 m average (~476 m/game).
• Hynes delivered 3,675 m; Hughes/Reynolds/others had moderate totals (not leading).

Line‑Break Assists & Line Breaks​

• Hughes, Hynes, and Fogarty all rank highly in line‑break assists (LBA) and general line‑break creation, though exact counts aren’t public, Zero Tackle lists them among the top creators for 2025. Zero TackleZero Tackle+5Zero Tackle+5Zero Tackle+5

Points Scored​

• Reynolds scored ~142 points, Fogarty ~140, Hynes ~136 across the season. Zero Tackle
• Hughes and Katoa, while not leading in point totals, contribute significantly via assists and kicking metres.

---

Overall Ranking — Weighted by Impactful Metrics​

1. Jahrome Hughes (Storm) — Top in try assists, elite in line‑break creativity.
2. Isaiya Katoa (Dolphins) — exceptional territory via league-leading kick metres, solid TA.
3. Jamal Fogarty (Raiders) — balanced performer: high TA, massive kick metres, strong points.
4. Adam Reynolds (Broncos) — high try assists, top points scorer, consistent game management.
5. Nicho Hynes (Sharks) — strong TA and LBA creator, reliable point contributor, moderate kicking.

---

Summary Verdict​

• The best No. 7 halfbackin 2025 varies depending on which metric you prioritize:
  • For creativity & tries created: Jahrome Hughes is the standout.
  • For territory/kicking metres: Isaiya Katoa leads the pack.
  • For all-round performance including points scoring: Fogarty, Reynolds, and Hynes are all elite contributors.

 

[Special K]

My follow up;

Could you do it including their halves partner and give me the best possible 6 and 7 partnership?

ChatGPT said:​

Absolutely! Here’s a detailed ranking of the best No. 6 & No. 7 halves partnerships in the 2025 NRL season, combining every available key metric from both players — try assists, line-break assists, kick metres, points scored, and overall impact on points creation.

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Best 6 & 7 Partnerships in 2025 NRL — Combined Metrics​

Rank	Team	Halfback (7)	Five-Eighth (6)	Games Played	Combined Try Assists (TA/game)	Combined Kick Metres	Combined Points Scored	Impact Notes
1	Cronulla Sharks	Nicho Hynes (7)	Braydon Trindall (6)	18	1.55 (0.83 + 0.72)	10,334 m	165	Highest combined kick metres; strong try assists; well-rounded attack and territory control
2	Melbourne Storm	Jahrome Hughes (7)	Cameron Munster (6)	16-18	2.20 (1.13 + 1.07)	Moderate	Moderate	Elite try assist duo, top creativity, less kick metres but strong attacking threat
3	Dolphins	Isaiya Katoa (7)	Jesse Bromwich (6)*	18	~1.15 (1.00 + ~0.15)*	8,200+ m (Katoa heavy)	Moderate	Leading kick metres, solid try assists mostly from Katoa; Bromwich’s numbers limited but experienced
4	Raiders	Jamal Fogarty (7)	Sam Williams (6)*	17	~1.00 (0.88 + ~0.12)*	~8,200 m	140	Strong kicking and try assist from Fogarty; partner less impactful but consistent
5	Brisbane Broncos	Adam Reynolds (7)	Ezra Mam (6)*	17	~1.00 (0.88 + ~0.12)*	Moderate	142	Reynolds high try assists and points; Ezra Mam adds some support but lower totals

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*Note on partners marked with *:​

• Five-eighths partner stats for some teams (like Dolphins, Raiders, Broncos) are limited publicly for 2025 or variable due to rotation or injury, so estimates are conservative.

---

Why Cronulla Leads​

• Hynes + Trindall deliver a rare balance of high kick metres (10,334 m combined) and solid creativity with try assists (1.55 combined per game).
• They lead the league for combined territory control, helping set up scoring chances, while also scoring themselves.
• Their complementary playing styles provide both structure and creative spark.

Melbourne Storm Close Behind​

• Hughes and Munster have the highest combined try assists (2.2 per game) — elite creators and playmakers.
• Their combined kick metres are more modest, reflecting a different game style focused on quick plays and ball movement.
• They consistently unlock opposition defenses and are one of the most dangerous attacking duos.

---

Additional Details on Metrics​

Metric	Cronulla (Hynes+Trindall)	Melbourne (Hughes+Munster)	Dolphins (Katoa+Bromwich)
Try Assists/Game	1.55	2.20	~1.15
Kick Metres	10,334 m	Moderate (~4,000-5,000 m)	8,200+ m
Points Scored	165	Moderate	Moderate
Line Break Assists	High	Very High	Moderate

---

Final Takeaway​

• If you value combined kicking metres and balanced attack, Cronulla’s Hynes and Trindall are the best halves duo of 2025.
• If try-assist creativity and direct point creation is your priority, Melbourne’s Hughes and Munster dominate.
• The Dolphins' Katoa pairing is notable for territory control but less balanced creativity.

 

[Special K]

ps I'd trade Nicho and Tricky for Hughes and Munster every day of the week!

 

[bad boy bubby]

So this was ChatGPT eh......

This is me

 

[Special K]

So this was ChatGPT eh......

This is me

haha I am on the road for work and bored but It paints a picture. We have so many issues and this team gives me the shits. I need data. I need answers. It calls out the one thing that shits me the most - the bench!

So I just asked

"If the sharks halves are so good what is the problem? Why aren't they leading the comp?"

ChatGPT said:​

Great question! Despite Nicho Hynes and Braydon Trindall being arguably the best halves duo in 2025 based on key attacking metrics, the Sharks not leading the competition often comes down to several factors beyond just their halves pairing’s output. Here’s a breakdown of why elite halves don’t always translate to top team performance:

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1. Defensive Weaknesses​

• Sharks have struggled defensively in 2025, conceding more points than many top teams.
• Great attacking halves can’t fully compensate if the team leaks too many points through missed tackles or defensive miscommunications.
• Defensive stats show Sharks rank mid-table or below in tackle efficiency and line speed, allowing opponents easy yards and scoring chances.

2. Depth and Consistency​

• Beyond the halves, the Sharks have had injuries or inconsistent performances across key positions (forwards, outside backs).
• Injuries or rotations weaken team synergy, especially in defensive sets and set pieces.
• Other teams like Panthers, Storm, or Broncos have more consistent lineups, aiding overall cohesion.

3. Game Management and Errors​

• Despite strong individual creativity, the Sharks sometimes suffer from unforced errors (knock-ons, penalties in key moments).
• These mistakes kill momentum and give opposition more possession.
• Effective game management—knowing when to kick for territory, slow the game, or control possession—is about more than raw stats.

4. Bench and Interchange Impact​

• Sharks’ bench impact and forward rotation in 2025 haven’t matched those of top teams.
• Fresh legs late in games and dominant forward packs can control tempo and field position, reducing pressure on halves.
• This has hurt Sharks’ ability to close out tight games.

5. Strength of Competition​

• Other clubs like Melbourne Storm or Penrith Panthers have balanced rosters with elite halves but also world-class forwards and backs.
• These teams pressure the Sharks more in all areas, limiting the halves’ influence.

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Summary​

Aspect	Sharks 2025 Issue
Defense	Below top teams, conceding too many points
Depth	Inconsistent support outside halves
Errors & Discipline	Key unforced errors and penalties
Bench Impact	Less effective rotation
Competition Level	Facing balanced, deeper teams

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Final thought:​

Hynes and Trindall provide elite playmaking and territorial advantage, but rugby league is a team sport where balance across defense, forward pack, and discipline is crucial. Until the Sharks shore up those areas, their halves brilliance alone won’t propel them to the very top of the ladder.

 

[bad boy bubby]

That's wild! and pretty bloody scary!
Haha

 

[Ozzi_78]

Aware SK is using chat GPT for a bit of fun but beware using it for anything actually important and never trust it.

 

[2012....Sharks Year]

f**k me…. And I only rated Nicho 6/10 and Tricky 5/10. I look forward to the Chat GPT stats when they get their shit together. Wonder what Chat GPT makes of the Goons marquee signing Atko?