The truth about 1 -5

[Old Timer]

It is interesting to see all the different opinions about our backline.
Posters are often quite polarised in their opinions of who should start, who should be dropped, who is better than who etc etc.
In amongst all of it I think a couple of things happen.

1. Some of the youngsters get talked up a bit too quickly because we are so pissed off with the gross inefficiencies in our back line. If we had some real quality mature players at the club I honestly think some of the juniors would be seen to have potential rather than form part of the "they must be picked now" philosophy. If we had the likes of a Gagai, Roberts, Ross, Rapanna I think the discussion would be very different. The reality is some players we have make our juniors greater prospect at a younger age than what they really are.
2. Some of the incumbents are talked up on the strength of 1 aspect of their play whilst other quite obvious faults are somewhat over looked or swept under the carpet. Some of this goes back to very mediocre purchasing and retention over the last few years (Lafai, Mc Donald, KFFL etc)
3. Some posters get far too welded onto some players and refuse to acknowledge that they are in reality quite poor compared to many opposition players. Somehow there is a belief because they wear a Dragons jumper and play 1st grade they are automatically OK. Some times ridiculous assertions are made about the real ability of our players.

Dufty is going to cop a fair bit of flack this year but he has enormous attacking potential but must learn quickly those things that good FB;s have to be able to do.
Nene always supposedly going to deliver on what people thought was a good form line at Titans. The fact is his best work is when he gets to dummy half (not that great anyway) and that is not what he was purchased for and now he is big enough to play in the forwards
Aitken a very hard running back who cannot defend or pass but loved because he is a junior.
Lafai supposedly going to turn into a world beater because he had a good 2014 and has trained the house down twice. Glimpses of solid form in amongst a lot of erratic rubbish and is very slow.
Nighty slow as a wet weak but still talked up because of "reliability" and 2010 GF. The truth is you need to remove the re in reliability if you are honest,
Mann continually miss labelled as a utility instead of being recognised as person that could start in many sides in any position 1 - 5.
A sorry sorry sight IMO and not nearly a good enough back line if we are 100% honest about our chances and Mc Fookknuckle says this is the squad he wants
FMD IMO a long season coming up and will be totally waisted unless some proper plan of blooding youth and seeking quality replacements for what must surely be recognised as players that need to be moved on.

 

[BigBoss]

Well said champ.

 

[RufusRex]

yep .. we don't have a bloke like Vunivalo or Addo Carr on the books so don't look threatening.
Even Lomax for all his promise in size etc doesn't look to have sizzling pace.

The worst thing about a lack of pace in 2,3,4,5 is the inevitable compressed defensive line that comes at you as a result and that makes it harder to find gaps in the middle and channel between the mid and outside thirds.

Nene to me looks more comfortable on the left especially in the air but needs to understand how lafai plays. Otherwise that combination will totally fail. We haven't seen him in open space at full speed since he played against us. Does he still even have that?
Lafai is rocks and diamonds .. You don't want to change him as he will be neither rocks or diamonds but you really want the balance to be positive.
Dufty needs to work on defence for sure - he made ground to get to cook but couldn't shut that play down.
Agree totally on Mann ... Doesn't let you down and did win the game for us against Hull.
Aitken ... wow ... so poor in the defensive line. Was good to see him release nighty on the weekend but Lomax did that too and it looked more natural and easier for him.

Every one of these blokes needs a coach or at the very least someone who can communicate game plan.

Very few of them (if any) would be a first choice three quarter in a top 4 side.

 

[Coffs dragon]

OT you are 100% honest with that analysis and I agree. So basically we have:-
1. A top 4 forward pack
2. A halves pairing that is up there with the best
3. A three quarter line (Back 5) that is bottom 4
4. A coach that is wooden spoon standard
5. A bench that has no impact & under utilised by the above idiot whom has no idea how to construct it.
Based on that I'm accessing a middle of the table finish for 2018.....yet again!

 

[2010]

It is interesting to see all the different opinions about our backline.
Posters are often quite polarised in their opinions of who should start, who should be dropped, who is better than who etc etc.
In amongst all of it I think a couple of things happen.

1. Some of the youngsters get talked up a bit too quickly because we are so pissed off with the gross inefficiencies in our back line. If we had some real quality mature players at the club I honestly think some of the juniors would be seen to have potential rather than form part of the "they must be picked now" philosophy. If we had the likes of a Gagai, Roberts, Ross, Rapanna I think the discussion would be very different. The reality is some players we have make our juniors greater prospect at a younger age than what they really are.
2. Some of the incumbents are talked up on the strength of 1 aspect of their play whilst other quite obvious faults are somewhat over looked or swept under the carpet. Some of this goes back to very mediocre purchasing and retention over the last few years (Lafai, Mc Donald, KFFL etc)
3. Some posters get far too welded onto some players and refuse to acknowledge that they are in reality quite poor compared to many opposition players. Somehow there is a belief because they wear a Dragons jumper and play 1st grade they are automatically OK. Some times ridiculous assertions are made about the real ability of our players.

Dufty is going to cop a fair bit of flack this year but he has enormous attacking potential but must learn quickly those things that good FB;s have to be able to do.
Nene always supposedly going to deliver on what people thought was a good form line at Titans. The fact is his best work is when he gets to dummy half (not that great anyway) and that is not what he was purchased for and now he is big enough to play in the forwards
Aitken a very hard running back who cannot defend or pass but loved because he is a junior.
Lafai supposedly going to turn into a world beater because he had a good 2014 and has trained the house down twice. Glimpses of solid form in amongst a lot of erratic rubbish and is very slow.
Nighty slow as a wet weak but still talked up because of "reliability" and 2010 GF. The truth is you need to remove the re in reliability if you are honest,
Mann continually miss labelled as a utility instead of being recognised as person that could start in many sides in any position 1 - 5.
A sorry sorry sight IMO and not nearly a good enough back line if we are 100% honest about our chances and Mc Fookknuckle says this is the squad he wants
FMD IMO a long season coming up and will be totally waisted unless some proper plan of blooding youth and seeking quality replacements for what must surely be recognised as players that need to be moved on.

 

[Dragonslayer]

The issue for me is that our backline, and I will include our halves here, all returned to pre-season training in Jan.
Widdop, Hunt, Nene, Lafai and Nighty were all on World Cup duty. Aitken and Mann had surgeries.
Dufty is the only one with a full pre-season under his belt, and it shows.
We have a new halves pairing, swapping positions, uncertainty of who will play centre or for that matter left edge forward.
This is not offered as an excuse, more so as to where we sit both fitness wise and structural wise. It will take time for the new combos to gel, more than the 6 weeks they've had together.
The weakest link here is Right Center. I think the swapping is a good thing but Aiken it's just being like he always is and has not improved. If McGregor gives him the right center spot he has to learn to move up with nighty and not go charging out of the line.
Apparently Aitkin played lock in his Junior days and the way he defends seems to be very similar to a lock forward.

 

[RufusRex]

He might be a good lock .. but he wont be better than JDB or Sele there ... Aitken is surplus to requirement and taking up good coin better spent elsewhere.

 

[Old Timer]

The issue for me is that our backline, and I will include our halves here, all returned to pre-season training in Jan.
Widdop, Hunt, Nene, Lafai and Nighty were all on World Cup duty. Aitken and Mann had surgeries.
Dufty is the only one with a full pre-season under his belt, and it shows.
We have a new halves pairing, swapping positions, uncertainty of who will play centre or for that matter left edge forward.
This is not offered as an excuse, more so as to where we sit both fitness wise and structural wise. It will take time for the new combos to gel, more than the 6 weeks they've had together.
The weakest link here is Right Center. I think the swapping is a good thing but Aiken it's just being like he always is and has not improved. If McGregor gives him the right center spot he has to learn to move up with nighty and not go charging out of the line.
Apparently Aitkin played lock in his Junior days and the way he defends seems to be very similar to a lock forward.

DS
The simple reality is what we have and persist with is obviously inadequate.
We don't have 1 weak link we have multiples and no amount of finding ways to make it sound better will do so.

 

[giboz71]

It amazes me that all and sundry in this forum can see our glaring weaknesses out wide, but Mary is somehow oblivious?

Been saying from a day 1 that Lafai, Nighty, Aitken and Nene are nowhere near good enough (or quick enough) to worry the top sides. Sure we may beat the Tigers or the Titans and the Warriors like we always do with those shit slow backs but no one else. The Storm, Roosters and Eels will murder us out wide.

Whether on attack or defence, I cringe every time the ball goes wide. In defence, I just shut my eyes and hope Aitken actually covers the right guy. In attack, I hold my breath just waiting for Lafai to shimmy, shimmy then flick pass out the touch line. It’s fecking amateur hour FFS.

When we weren’t gonna sign Dugan to his 800k contract, how we didn’t swoop on someone like Gagai or Johnstone is beyond me??

We must hope one of the young guns will eventually come through but even that is just blind faith.

 

[RufusRex]

It amazes me that all and sundry in this forum can see our glaring weaknesses out wide, but Mary is somehow oblivious?

Been saying from a day 1 that Lafai, Nighty, Aitken and Nene are nowhere near good enough (or quick enough) to worry the top sides. Sure we may beat the Tigers or the Titans and the Warriors like we always do with those shit slow backs but no one else. The Storm, Roosters and Eels will murder us out wide.

Whether on attack or defence, I cringe every time the ball goes wide. In defence, I just shut my eyes and hope Aitken actually covers the right guy. In attack, I hold my breath just waiting for Lafai to shimmy, shimmy then flick pass out the touch line. It’s fecking amateur hour FFS.

When we weren’t gonna sign Dugan to his 800k contract, how we didn’t swoop on someone like Gagai or Johnstone is beyond me??

We must hope one of the young guns will eventually come through but even that is just blind faith.

Agree .. and in order of out the door the list should be

1. Aitken
2. Nightingale
3. Nene
4. Lafai

At the moment 1 and 2 have ready made replacements in Mann/Lomax ... We really needed to go hard at a Johnston or Gagai type and maybe even a Vunivalo when off contract. He is 21 and has a shit tonne of footy in front of him.

No problem replacing all four if better is found.

 

[BennyV]

*wet week

 

[SaintPeter]

Great post Old Timer.

Agree with nearly everything you said.

Got me thinking , why ?? and the reason I think is $$.
The club (STGI) is not a club (despite the purchase of Hunt) with loads of $$ and all these guys you mentioned', 1-5 , for us, would I expect, not be on great $$.
I'm lucky to be here - at Saints playing first grade so, I'll play for whatever the club gives me and hang on to my spot.
It's got to be saving us a quid.

Trouble is for the fans our back line is comparatively very/pretty ordinary.

Hopefully the young guys like Lomax and Dufty will get a go and develop quickly. They need to!

 

[possm]

Once the young guns prove themselves, they will want market price and will no longer be cheap.

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

Good honest post OT .....Yes also been saying it for quite a while now myself...our 1 to 5 really is very very weak.....all our negative comments are coming out after 2 trials before the season proper because we all know deep down these blokes just arnt good enough to threaten even the weakess teams in this comp.....we keep hoping that a miracle will happen but sadly it isnt gonna happen.....theres probably 2 keeps in our backline, Dufty and Mann (and they need a lot of work as well) and the other 4 need to be moved on......I seriously believe Lafai, Aitken and Nene wouldnt cut the mustard even under Bennett or Bellamy because theres to many errors in their game and quite frankly their not that good imo.....hate bagging our blokes this early in the season but Im a realist.....Im not prepared to sit through another season hoping our backline will come good.....prove me wrong fellas but I doubt you can....end of story