The world since BS

[Delboy]

having a reflection moment on the 6 years since BS. What is galringly obvious is the lack of attention to recruitment, from the U20s to NRL, we have simply not seen the transition of the game into big, mobile forwards.

Rockets philosophy of skill is the major drawcard has shown what a failure that was, check the props at other side, and generally they are over 6'3" and 110kg, that makes the space upfront to get the attack going and also when tackling makes them hurt

We need to reassert this over the coming 12-18 months, Lussick is a start, but Tim needs size around him to make his hit ups and quick play the balls effective. BS is a master at noting the changes, and recruiiting accordingly, now his man management can be a bit harsh - but his teams tend to measure up.

Sticky appears to be ina position to rebuild the club, and it really is necessary. Even Fraser and Kelepi are not giants, so hope we see a change in recruitment to addresss this issue.

A couple of grasftinfg back rowers wouldnt go astray , fingers crossed for the new team

 

[hineyrulz]

We are still recovering from the disaster that was Hagan, Fairleigh and Rocket Reddy. Everyone can bag Kearney all they want but Hagan was the worst thing to happen to this club IMO.

 

[Delboy]

My point is that 6 years of poor recruiting (and retention and coaching) from so called experts has put us in this position.

I was making the observation that since BS we have fallen so far that we have not acknowledged the changes to size and speed.

 

[Joshuatheeel]

Do you really need gaints in the forward pack to be successful ? Manly have been pretty successful with a pretty small pack, Anthony, stewart aren't that big and their props are of average side . They do have t-Rex but he was only a back until last year. Dragons won the comp with a powerful pack not a massive pack. While the storm aren't huge even.

One of the best props in the game Matt Scott is not huge and either is gallen

You don't need size you need powerful or smart towards ( e.g. Glen Stewart type players) we have neither.

The two Toyota cups players mention may not be huge but at this time in their career they are very powerful.

What Ricky needs to do is get us playing the ball faster which will go a long way to fixing our forward (whether we have the players to do this is another debate)

I would say the biggest problem since smith is the fact we have only really developed three forwards who are nrl regulars - mannah and keating - then Mateo

 

[Hanscholo]

Id say its been the lack of ability to get the best out of what you have that has been the problem. Look at the mileage Manly, Melbourne etc have gotten out of their garden variety forward packs. You blokes have had ample talent to work with.

 

[Utey]

Yep, mobility is more important than pure bulk IMO.

 

[Ollie Webb]

We are still recovering from the disaster that was Hagan, Fairleigh and Rocket Reddy. Everyone can bag Kearney all they want but Hagan was the worst thing to happen to this club IMO.

I agree 100% on Hagan and the blame should be on the people that appointed him, but Reddy's role was to recruit based on the strategy provided by Hagan. Need to remember that Reddy was also recruiting when BS was Head Coach and young players that progressed...Ben Smith, Hayne, Tim Smith, Inu, Mateo, Mannah, Keatings x 2, Hodkinson and Horo!
He also signed James Maloney from Norths Flegg, Keating K and Hodkinson who were not re-signed by Hagan, Hill and company.

 

[hineyrulz]

When Smith left the whole direction of th club went to shit,poor attitudes, cutting corners at training, players turning up to training drunk, hungover or not at all. It was left to senior players to punish players who got out of line which led to some friction will still exists to this day IMO. The whole club culture went to shit in just 12 months and the responsibility of that falls on Hagan. Add to that terrible recruiting, retention and maintance of the salary cap we find ourselves running dead last.

 

[natheel]

We are still recovering from the disaster that was Hagan, Fairleigh and Rocket Reddy. Everyone can bag Kearney all they want but Hagan was the worst thing to happen to this club IMO.

Agree hagan inherited a team that was capable of making the finals from smith/Taylor. Then he f**ked it up. Although sk wasn't getting the results on the field he has at least put out junior recruitment and retention in a good position that a coach like Ricky Stuart can continue on with.

 

[Delboy]

Do you really need gaints in the forward pack to be successful ? Manly have been pretty successful with a pretty small pack, . -

In answer to this reply, Kite and King are both 6'4'' and over 108kgs, Lussick is similar in size and George Rose is George Rose, hardly powder puffs. Even Vic Mauro is bigger than any of our props. Their backrow, even the smaller ones run with aggression and purpose, look at how the Rabbits line up and compare.

Even Brad Arthur said at the coaches conference that it looked like men against boys at the line up for the anthem.

Hagan/DA/SK and Reddy have sent us into a tailspin, and I wouldnt be surpriosed to see some contracted players on their way before 2013.

 

[The Colonel]

The two biggest players in our under 20's are Toby Key and Will Bugden. Both big units, over 6.3' and 110kgs but Bugden hasn't played heaps and Key has been injured in his last year of Under 20's. We certainly lack size..... our backs are in some cases bigger than our props.

Mind you even under Brian Smith we never had a massive pack. Certanly always skillful with the occassional big bopper thrown in. In 2003 and 2004 his recruiting of blokes like Kaufusi, Leuluai and other 'big' players was pretty much disastrous.

 

[oldmancraigy]

I must say the the three years previous to this one, our pack hasn't been a massive issue for us.
It hasn't been a "worldbeaters" pack, but they didn't get manhandled on a consistent basis, we tended to struggle in the halves.

I would agree that recruitment in the forwards has been lacking, we haven't been looking for worldbeaters, rather just stockpiling 1 dimensional guys, either guys who can tackle or guys who can run or guys who are fast or guys who are big - but not really looking for big strong fast guys who can run....
Because of the lack in recruiting, the 'decent' pack that we had for a few years has pretty well fizzled out.
I think we need to give Kearney a fair amount of credit for the performance of our pack this season. He completely bamboozled them, had them playing all over the shop, and bought or re-signed powder puffs or ball droppers. (eg, playing Fui out wide, opening the cashbook for POH/Lasalo and bringing in Tautai). Poor coaching certainly has an impact on performance.

 

[barney gumble]

When Smith left the whole direction of th club went to shit,poor attitudes, cutting corners at training, players turning up to training drunk, hungover or not at all. It was left to senior players to punish players who got out of line which led to some friction will still exists to this day IMO. The whole club culture went to shit in just 12 months and the responsibility of that falls on Hagan. Add to that terrible recruiting, retention and maintance of the salary cap we find ourselves running dead last.

Hindmarsh touches on this very point in his book.

 

[Jake the snake]

First on my hit list would be Josh Jackson and Dale Finacaune from the dogs they have massive futures. If we can't get then we should bid so high so that the dogs would have to pay top dollar to keep em.

 

[hineyrulz]

First on my hit list would be Josh Jackson and Dale Finacaune from the dogs they have massive futures. If we can't get then we should bid so high so that the dogs would have to pay top dollar to keep em.

How long are these two blokes signed up for???? They already have Graham,Frankie,T Rex,Tolman,Kasino,Tapau and Eastwood, they can't keep them all. Or can they :sarcasm:

 

[Delboy]

What surprised me this year was Nolan was supposed to have contacts at the broncos, Gagai was available and nothing from us. No move for Tapau from the Dogs even, actually feel sorry for Brad Arthur as I know he did speak to SK about needs and was told "not to worry, we can get it done with these lads"

 

[oldmancraigy]

The thing with both Jackson and Finucane are that they're both 'lightweights' (93 and 98kgs respectively) and both inexperienced. Sadly young light guys don't tend to make a massive difference to a poorly performing pack!

We need to get a vet or 2 to turn the ship around next season.

 

[oldmancraigy]

What surprised me this year was Nolan was supposed to have contacts at the broncos, Gagai was available and nothing from us. No move for Tapau from the Dogs even, actually feel sorry for Brad Arthur as I know he did speak to SK about needs and was told "not to worry, we can get it done with these lads"

I wonder how much of that is Nolan's inability to get those players and how much is SK's desire to stick with what he's got?

I know for a fact we could've had J Smith (Sharks) at the end of June if we'd wanted him (would've involved letting Shack go to Manly to free the roster spot). Apparently we stalled on J Smith a week too long, then the Sharks decided they want to keep him. Shack ended up at Penrith at the last moment.

 

[PARRA_FAN]

When Smith left the whole direction of th club went to shit,poor attitudes, cutting corners at training, players turning up to training drunk, hungover or not at all. It was left to senior players to punish players who got out of line which led to some friction will still exists to this day IMO. The whole club culture went to shit in just 12 months and the responsibility of that falls on Hagan. Add to that terrible recruiting, retention and maintance of the salary cap we find ourselves running dead last.

Its a real shame, considering we were always up there in the lower grades. I feel we should never have appointed Hagan, now that I look back at our season in 2008. JT shouldve stayed on.

I just hope we get back that era from 1997-2006, where so many promising youngsters came through the ranks and our recruitment really paid off.

We didnt over spend on players, like in 2001 and 2005.

 

[Gronk]

What surprised me this year was Nolan was supposed to have contacts at the broncos, Gagai was available and nothing from us. No move for Tapau from the Dogs even, actually feel sorry for Brad Arthur as I know he did speak to SK about needs and was told "not to worry, we can get it done with these lads"

](*,)