Tigers In Trouble

[philgood]

Excellent article which was posted on the official forum:


http://www.skynews.com.au/sport/article.aspx?id=259996

NRL Tigers in trouble
Updated: 14:29, Wednesday August 20, 2008

Most of us have endured hangovers that seem to last for days and leave you begging to be put out of your misery.

But is one massive night worth three years of pain?

That's what Wests Tigers fans will be asking themselves this week.

The club that thrilled the rugby league world with its unexpected 2005 premiership success has lost the hunger to do it all over again.

The hangover has refused to lift.

After being thumped 40-12 by bogey side Parramatta on Monday night, the Tigers will surely miss the finals for the third successive year.

How do you go from winning a comp to not being good enough to make the top eight three seasons in a row?

The Tigers will argue their grand final side has been gradually split up due to the salary cap and other forces.

But Robbie Farah is still there, as is Brett Hodgson, Benji Marshall, Chris Heighington, Bryce Gibbs, Todd Payten, Liam Fulton and Dene Halatau.

That's eight out of 17.

Sure they've lost some quality but enough to justify finishing 11th (2006), ninth (2007) and 11th (2008 with three round to go)?

Of course coach Tim Sheens is still there and will be for another two years, bringing his stay to eight consecutive seasons.

And perhaps this is the problem.

While not doubting Sheens' coaching ability for a minute, it's become clear the Tigers are unwilling or unable to follow their chief's orders.

There have been patches of brilliance over the past three years but nothing sustainable.

The players don't look like that want it enough, no matter how many times they tell themselves they still have the hunger.

The greatest coach of them all - Jack Gibson - never stayed more than three seasons at the one club.

He reasoned there was only so much juice you could squeeze from an orange.

And when success comes early in the tenure - as it did with Sheens and the Tigers - the orange can become a lemon very quickly.

There are signs the premiership's longest-serving coach has 'lost the dressing room'.

A good lie down and a few Nurofens won't ease the pain.

This one looks terminal.

 

[The Gambler]

Hmmmmmmm.

Some valid points are made.

There is a distinct differnce between saying that Sheens should be moved on because he has overdone his stint at the Tigers and has become too comfortable and saying Sheens should get the sack because he is a sh*t coach.

This is the issue I have with criticism of Sheens, I dont think he is a sh*t coach by any stretch of the imagination. But yes, perhaps he has grown stale at the club and the players dont respond to him as well as they should.

 

[baddog]

if you can't see that you've stayed too long and instead sign on for three years you're a sh*t coach

 

[The Gambler]

if you can't see that you've stayed too long and instead sign on for three years you're a sh*t coach

If you dont take a contract offered to you for good money for three years then you are dropkick.

 

[N.C.]

That's valid, Gambler, but you have to look at the club's recruitment and retention over the last three years to get the full picture. We might have 8 of 17 2005 grand finalists still kicking on but how many players have we gone through in the meantime? Who have we bought, who have we lost and who have we kept? The fact of it is that we buy up the scraps and occasionally get lucky, as we did with Prince and quite possibly as will be the case with Galloway... But it backfires more often than not and is indicative of a real problem - we either can't attract quality players or else we are not really trying to...

Now whether this is a matter for the coach or not is a good question. He has his role to play like everybody else. Maybe the fact that he's been handed another three years on the back of everything else is the issue. Just another indictment on our poor approach to recruitment and retention.

 

[Magpies Forever]

Well, many of us have said similar things over the last year but Sheens (and Simmons) still seem to be the golden boys for WT management. Unless WT management begin to put them on notice, we will never get change not matter how much the long suffering fans voice their disquiet.

I still find it amazing they re-signed him for another 3 years without testing the field. 06 and 07 must counter-balance the good 05....... Only average performance in those years begs questions to coaching staff, players and the recruitment and retention decisions by Sheens as coach, and McDonnell as the recruiter. BUT, the questions never seem to be asked.

 

[baddog]

If you dont take a contract offered to you for good money for three years then you are dropkick.

bullsh*t. a great coach, or even a good coach would put the interests of his team first. anyone who sticks their maw out for hundreds of thousands a year when they know, or should know they can't deliver what they're agreeing to deliver is a dropkick.

plenty of people move on when they have far more to offer than sheens has delivered this year. balmain wanted to keep wok but he knew he couldn't get them back to the top so he moved on. it wasn't like in the afterglow of 05 sheens couldn't have secured a good contract somewhere else and actually enhanced his rep even further. as it is all he's doing is ensuring this is his last contract. maybe he's old enough not to care anymore, but that's hardly an excuse.

the real culprits are of course the board and management of the tigers who have failed to make the tough call.

 

[baddog]

BUT, the questions never seem to be asked.

the questions have been asked, just not by balmain. i've heard balmain are asking them now though.

 

[Magpies Forever]

the questions have been asked, just not by balmain. i've heard balmain are asking them now though.

I can only hope the noise grows and we make management listen!!! Stupid decision to re-sign him- I bet that (the new contract) will be a reason given for initial resistance to doing anything.

 

[The Gambler]

bullsh*t. a great coach, or even a good coach would put the interests of his team first. anyone who sticks their maw out for hundreds of thousands a year when they know, or should know they can't deliver what they're agreeing to deliver is a dropkick.

plenty of people move on when they have far more to offer than sheens has delivered this year. balmain wanted to keep wok but he knew he couldn't get them back to the top so he moved on. it wasn't like in the afterglow of 05 sheens couldn't have secured a good contract somewhere else and actually enhanced his rep even further. as it is all he's doing is ensuring this is his last contract. maybe he's old enough not to care anymore, but that's hardly an excuse.

the real culprits are of course the board and management of the tigers who have failed to make the tough call.

I'm afraid your living in a dream world. You win a comp a season or two before, you get along with the players, you get along with management, you are on a dam good wicket. You get offered a contract worth lots of cash - you take the dam thing. Regardless whether you think you are a good person for the job or not.

 

[baddog]

take the punt eh gambler?

i don't blame sheens for taking it. i don't know the bloke from adam but i've heard from those who do that he sure hasn't had an ego bi-pass. i'm sure he genuinely believes he can turn it around next year too.

my point is merely that this is a symptom of a bad coach. of course he's not all bad, and has done plenty of good stuff over the years. even ego in itself isn't a bad thing as you need a fair bit self belief to get you through the tough times that eventually come to everyone. it becomes a problem when it blinds you to your own failings and you keep making the same mistakes. after 1 finals appearance since the mid 90's i reckon sheens isn't just going through tough times. the players are different, the clubs are different, the only common denominator is himself. eventually the excuses have to give way to reality and you need to concede sheens just isn't much hope to get the team performing at it's peak. plenty of greats in all walks of life go on too long in the vain hope of regaining the old magic, but usually they just become a liability and drag their team down with them.

 

[Hanscholo]

I think the article assumes the late season 2005 form is something that a coach can conjure at an instant. That was one of the very best veins of form i have ever seen a team hit. It was when Marshall and Prince were dominating behind lightening quick play the balls and the Tigers defensive line was so fast I can recall them cutting people down before the advantage line as common place.

I just think that time was a special one for your club, and the talent just isnt there at this point to do much better than they are doing. Your coach is sitting on top of a large jnr base and I think that he would prefer to foster young players than to buy them. I dont think he is a poor coach, indeed without him i think you guys would be in serious trouble.

 

[super_coach]

Sheens is a control freak and as head coach you need to be one but it also means is your where the buck stops. So you take the slaps on the back in the good times but you also take the kicks in the bad times.

The real pass mark in the comp is a top four finish,the standard is so average yet three years in a row we have not even made the eight and we seem to be slipping further down the ladder each year.

My major worry is we have real salary cap issues with our current under performing playing roster, so to make some major changes for 2009 is not going to happen and the only way things are going to change is with a major change in the playing roster or a new direction in the coaching dept.

Sheens should walk with Noyce and let 2009 be the start of a new direction in tigertown

 

[Bobby Meldrum]

Sheens is alla bout hie ego. His comment last week after the 7th consecutive loss to them about not being too confident if I were them was sad. We ahd just been hammered off the park and he says the other team shouldn't be over-confident. The mastercoach needs to worry about his own backyard before he starts talking about opposition clubs. Unfortuantely for us the likes of Noyce, Sheens, Simmons and McDonnell are so close that nothing was going to change untill one fo them left. Now Noyce has left, heres hoping Longmuir puts lets Sheens know he must start to perform.

 

[rupertpupkin]

My major worry is we have real salary cap issues with our current under performing playing roster, so to make some major changes for 2009 is not going to happen and the only way things are going to change is with a major change in the playing roster or a new direction in the coaching dept.

Even IF what is happening with the team's performances for 3 years is not a direct result of Sheens' and Simmons' coaching and tactics, there is a blatant problem with recruitment, retention, releases and upgrades. The massive blunders in the make up of the team is resulting in chickens coming home to roost. The woeful performances and application can arguably be traced back to the same source. The dropping of Teo is the first regular since 2005. The argument for not promoting from the lower grades, to replace underperformers, is the cap. But this would not be such a problem if WT had not extended, and upgraded the contracts of a bunch of players, who didn't warrant any such thing. The team has a collection of players who are clogging progress due to being overpaid, and over-rated. They "can't be dropped" due to the money problems created by their own mediocrity , in view of their contracts.

 

[super_coach]

Rupertpumkin--you hit the nail on the head. We have a lot of players contracted for the next few years who just are not up to FG standard or a surplus to our requirements. Our recruitment has not been based on what the team needs to fix its weaknesses, its been more he is a good footballer lets sign him (although we ten others for the same position). We are now in for another lean year next year because of this situation with maybe 2010 being the year change might take place if we can lure anyone to our club