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time for a change

gurstar

Juniors
Messages
223
Posted by Gobbso on another forum:

As we know, the mission Statement of this Football club changed some years ago when the club chose to pro-long and secure its future in the NRL by forming a Joint-Venture with Balmain. Since that time, the Football club's structre and vision changed seeing it's potential as a feeder support system to it's NRL entity, establishing itself as a direct pathway for its talent juniors to NRL First Grade.

Since that time, the club has seen the graduation of players in;
-Anthony Laffranchi
-Daniel Fitzhenry
-Luke Covell
-Bryce Gibbs
-Liam Fulton
-Shannon McDonnell
-Dean Collis
-Michael Crocket
-Issac DeGois
-Rocky Trimarchi
-Stuart Flanagan
-Shannon Gallant
-Beau Ryan
-Chris Lawrence
-Peni Tagive
-Daine Laurie

16 NRL Players (minus the exceptions of local juniors inherited or signed after initial debuts for the Western Suburbs Magpies in Ciriaco Mescia, McGuinness Bros. Ken and Kevin, John Skandalis, Brett Hodgson)

Now, 3 years on after winning the Premiership, Wests Tigers find themselves in a spot on bother. A Continual dip in form with the team losing it's way leading into the finals when they have been in a position to consolidate a Finals position yet have come up short time and time again. At any other club, this would not have been tolerated and the broom would have already been through the joint.

It's been stated that a review at Seasons end will come regarding the recruitment, football operations department, Coaching structure and player cleanout with Coach Sheens stating that players will be tapped on the shoulder at that some of the juniors that the club chose to invest in have not fulfilled their expectations, have failed to "grow and mature" in the NRL.

Combine that with a lack of a well established, creative organing Halfback, and there is your reason why failure has occured. It's there in 'Black and White', (pardon the pun). Coach Sheens has been persistent and loyal to many players, most of who have been juniors from this club and the Balmain club. However, whilst he has been persistent, stubbon and loyal, he has failed to recognise other talent worthy of an opportunity, overlooking other talent champing at the bit to prove their worth.

With the off-season not far away, it now gives Coach Sheens the opportunity to rid the deadwood, dismiss the juniors who have not lived up to expectations and re-build yet again for the future. He did it in 2005 and it worked wonders. The handful of experienced old heads with an array of enthusiastic youngsters that just wanted to play football was the perfect ingredient to a elusive Premiership in 2005.

The talent in the NSW Cup and U/20's Squads for Western Suburbs and Wests Tigers respectively are flourishing with Western Suburbs juniors that are waiting for the opportunity and a chance to prove their worth, just like the Laffranchi's, Fulton's, Gibbs' once had to chance to do and never looked back. It's time Coach Sheens and Recruitment Manager McDonnell unearthed some new blood into the Wests Tigers NRL Squad.

Those that are worthy and deserve an opportunity to be apart of the Full-time Squad and to feature in to the top 17 would surely have to include;

-Shannon Gallant
-Nathan Waters
-Wade Dunley
-Nu Akeripa
-Corey Vlaciky
-Robert Lui
-Will Mataka
-Michael Stolk
-Holo Tonga

Gallant is leaps and bounds the best option to fill the vacated Fullback role left by Magpie and Wests Tigers club legend, Brett Hodgson. He has proved he can handle the task and provides Wests Tigers with reliability, great positional play, speed to burn backed up with tremendous support play, ala Hodgo.

Waters, Dunley and Lui. All halves and all better options than John Morris wearing the No.7 Jersey. All 3 players deserve a chance and shot to make the No.7 their own. With no established Halfback in the ranks nor look like attracting one to the club in the near or long-term future, the only option i can see is to give these 3 men a shot. We've seen what Chris Sandow has done to Souths, his enthusiasm has been infectious and really turned around the Bunnies seasons and fortunes. What has Coach Sheens got to lose?

Nu Akeripa is solid consistent and at the moment along with utility Dene Halatau wopuld provide alot more in both attack and defence the Dean Collis. Collis is one of those players and juniors who Sheens has referred to as not living up to expectation nor grown and matured after a few seasons in the NRL. Akeripa should be given a chance.

Vlaciky, Mataka, Stolk and Tonga have been impressive. All big units who bring about size and strength to what has been criticised and labelled as a weak and small pack. With Bronson Harrison being shopped around to UK and NRL clubs, Ben Te'o off to Brisbane, O'Hara off to Celtic in Super League, Metuisela and Danny Galea rumoured to be released, it gives this young crop of forwards the chance to rip and tear and be apart of a re-structuring of a forward pack to support the likes of Gibbs, Galloway, Payten, Laurie, Heighington.

Wests Tigers have stuck by the youth policy for sometime now, believing that the kids coming through from the local junior nursery espeically in the Western Suburbs district will bear success for the future. Well let's see it before it's too late and it wastes away and fades or moves on to green pasturers and has us all seeing red ask the question "why?".

Bring on the next installment of juniors who are ready to put Wests Tigers back into the contenders category and out of the pretenders circle. Bring on the kids that want to play football who have the ability and can bring back that much needed enthusiasm. Something that hasn't been seen since 2005.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

super_coach

First Grade
Messages
5,061
I agree with your post 100% but I think their is not much between being in the penthouse or being in the cellar. A quality no7 and 4 quality frontrowers in our 17 and we would be mixing it with the best. Benji Collis and others really struggle at time playing behind a pack that dosnt go forward. Address the forwards and the no7 and we are in for a good year come 2009. My main concern is, this has been the case for three years and Sheens keeps trying bandaide solutions that backfire in his face
 

baddog

Juniors
Messages
245
you forgot glenn air, jackson kaufusi, chris paterson, steve crouch, lincoln withers, willie manu, ahmad bajouri, adam tippett, gray viane, warren carney, ben jeffries, clint hill, luke duffy, keiran kerr, razor ray cashmere,

and the one and only the great luke covell!
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,384
As we know, the mission Statement of this Football club changed some years ago when the club chose to pro-long and secure its future in the NRL by forming a Joint-Venture with Balmain. Since that time, the Football club's structre and vision changed seeing it's potential as a feeder support system to it's NRL entity, establishing itself as a direct pathway for its talent juniors to NRL First Grade.

Since that time, the club has seen the graduation of players in;
-Anthony Laffranchi
-Daniel Fitzhenry
-Luke Covell
-Bryce Gibbs
-Liam Fulton
-Shannon McDonnell
-Dean Collis
-Michael Crocket
-Issac DeGois
-Rocky Trimarchi
-Stuart Flanagan
-Shannon Gallant
-Beau Ryan
-Chris Lawrence
-Peni Tagive
-Daine Laurie


16 NRL Players (minus the exceptions of local juniors inherited or signed after initial debuts for the Western Suburbs Magpies in Ciriaco Mescia, McGuinness Bros. Ken and Kevin, John Skandalis, Brett Hodgson)

Now, 3 years on after winning the Premiership, Wests Tigers find themselves in a spot on bother. A Continual dip in form with the team losing it's way leading into the finals when they have been in a position to consolidate a Finals position yet have come up short time and time again. At any other club, this would not have been tolerated and the broom would have already been through the joint.

It's been stated that a review at Seasons end will come regarding the recruitment, football operations department, Coaching structure and player cleanout with Coach Sheens stating that players will be tapped on the shoulder at that some of the juniors that the club chose to invest in have not fulfilled their expectations, have failed to "grow and mature" in the NRL.

Combine that with a lack of a well established, creative organing Halfback, and there is your reason why failure has occured. It's there in 'Black and White', (pardon the pun). Coach Sheens has been persistent and loyal to many players, most of who have been juniors from this club and the Balmain club. However, whilst he has been persistent, stubbon and loyal, he has failed to recognise other talent worthy of an opportunity, overlooking other talent champing at the bit to prove their worth.

With the off-season not far away, it now gives Coach Sheens the opportunity to rid the deadwood, dismiss the juniors who have not lived up to expectations and re-build yet again for the future. He did it in 2005 and it worked wonders. The handful of experienced old heads with an array of enthusiastic youngsters that just wanted to play football was the perfect ingredient to a elusive Premiership in 2005.

The talent in the NSW Cup and U/20's Squads for Western Suburbs and Wests Tigers respectively are flourishing with Western Suburbs juniors that are waiting for the opportunity and a chance to prove their worth, just like the Laffranchi's, Fulton's, Gibbs' once had to chance to do and never looked back. It's time Coach Sheens and Recruitment Manager McDonnell unearthed some new blood into the Wests Tigers NRL Squad.

Those that are worthy and deserve an opportunity to be apart of the Full-time Squad and to feature in to the top 17 would surely have to include;

-Shannon Gallant
-Nathan Waters
-Wade Dunley
-Nu Akeripa
-Corey Vlaciky
-Robert Lui
-Will Mataka
-Michael Stolk
-Holo Tonga

Gallant is leaps and bounds the best option to fill the vacated Fullback role left by Magpie and Wests Tigers club legend, Brett Hodgson. He has proved he can handle the task and provides Wests Tigers with reliability, great positional play, speed to burn backed up with tremendous support play, ala Hodgo.

Waters, Dunley and Lui. All halves and all better options than John Morris wearing the No.7 Jersey. All 3 players deserve a chance and shot to make the No.7 their own. With no established Halfback in the ranks nor look like attracting one to the club in the near or long-term future, the only option i can see is to give these 3 men a shot. We've seen what Chris Sandow has done to Souths, his enthusiasm has been infectious and really turned around the Bunnies seasons and fortunes. What has Coach Sheens got to lose?

Nu Akeripa is solid consistent and at the moment along with utility Dene Halatau wopuld provide alot more in both attack and defence the Dean Collis. Collis is one of those players and juniors who Sheens has referred to as not living up to expectation nor grown and matured after a few seasons in the NRL. Akeripa should be given a chance.

Vlaciky, Mataka, Stolk and Tonga have been impressive. All big units who bring about size and strength to what has been criticised and labelled as a weak and small pack. With Bronson Harrison being shopped around to UK and NRL clubs, Ben Te'o off to Brisbane, O'Hara off to Celtic in Super League, Metuisela and Danny Galea rumoured to be released, it gives this young crop of forwards the chance to rip and tear and be apart of a re-structuring of a forward pack to support the likes of Gibbs, Galloway, Payten, Laurie, Heighington.

Wests Tigers have stuck by the youth policy for sometime now, believing that the kids coming through from the local junior nursery espeically in the Western Suburbs district will bear success for the future. Well let's see it before it's too late and it wastes away and fades or moves on to green pasturers and has us all seeing red ask the question "why?".

Bring on the next installment of juniors who are ready to put Wests Tigers back into the contenders category and out of the pretenders circle. Bring on the kids that want to play football who have the ability and can bring back that much needed enthusiasm. Something that hasn't been seen since 2005.

Great post gurstar, very in depth & thought provoking.
It is indeed a time for change.....and while i agree on your sentiments re the juniors, a balance between growing your own and purchasing class needs to be achieved imo.

With Hodgo going it leaves us an even younger team than we currently are, seniority and experience is crucial in any team and these traits we should be looking for when the front row and halfback positions are looked at.
 

The Gambler

Juniors
Messages
2,316
Whilst I am all for bring through young talent, I think the Tigers really need to bring in a couple of experienced players from elsewhere - especially in the front row. We can't rely on the juniors to get us to the top. Our U20's can't even make the finals, so there is nothing really to suggest that our juniors are worldbeaters on their own.
 

macnaz

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,506
Great post, The only change Sheens can offer is BENJI TO HALF:crazy: ..
 

ucantseeme

Juniors
Messages
1,729
Since there is very little personel changes (ie. Out: Hodgson, T'eo In: Ellis), I say for every game of 2009 Sheens goes with 4 forwards on the bench. And when I say forward I don't mean someone like Liam Fulton. I mean someone capable of at least being a prop if required (eg. Todd Payten, not our first choice prop but can play there if needed).

This betters the odds getting good metres, betters the odds of not getting trampled when defending, and still allows Benji + Farah to work their magic.
 

Magpies Forever

Juniors
Messages
2,208
Good post but the perennial story is we cant afford to recruit anyone (or so we are told). Yes, some experienced hands would be very useful to lead the lads. Maybe we can pick up one or two at a reasonable price from the "leftovers"- but we have to be strategic.

To be honest, I dont think our backs are a problem, running behind a good pack and a 1/2 and 5/8 that can provide direction and lead a team around the park we would be fine- not world beaters but "up there".

Havent we been saying for literally years our problems are 1/2 and front rowers (and the coaching staff)?
 

Spank

Juniors
Messages
497
Great post !!

People like Dunly & Waters should be considered for the #7 !

I dont buy the whole we cant afford top line players bullsh*t, we have the same cap as everybody else... if we chose to fill it with overpaid under performing blokes then we got nobody to blame but ourselves however they shouldnt bandy around the oh we cant afford it we dont make enough money crap cause like i said, every team has the same cap... difference is do you use it correctly.

Though when you see teams like the Storm or Roosters with 10 rep players yet the Tigers can only manage what 2 or 3 (mostly NZ) it makes you wonder how well watched some clubs are on this cap.

I dont think there is an answer for 2009, we gonna have to count on the boys getting their sh*t together and actually playing to potential while in 2010 we can start buying some talent.
 

macnaz

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,506
Great post !!

People like Dunly & Waters should be considered for the #7 !

I dont buy the whole we cant afford top line players bullsh*t, we have the same cap as everybody else... if we chose to fill it with overpaid under performing blokes then we got nobody to blame but ourselves however they shouldnt bandy around the oh we cant afford it we dont make enough money crap cause like i said, every team has the same cap... difference is do you use it correctly.

Though when you see teams like the Storm or Roosters with 10 rep players yet the Tigers can only manage what 2 or 3 (mostly NZ) it makes you wonder how well watched some clubs are on this cap.

I dont think there is an answer for 2009, we gonna have to count on the boys getting their sh*t together and actually playing to potential while in 2010 we can start buying some talent.
When you look at or salary cap position we seem to be losing way more more players then we have bought so like you i cant understand how they can use this exuse.
 

super_coach

First Grade
Messages
5,061
We are suffering from back loaded contract syndrome. Yes we are loosing players but people like Payne are on double coin come 2009. The bloke who has been doing the buying and selling over the past three years needs a bullet because we are in quick sands with no hope of getting out of it to 2010
 
Messages
2,808
Stupid coaching, plain and simple.

To be honest though, we have a fairly well rounded side, lacking a bit of muscle up front. It is Sh!t coaching, plain and simple. How can you name Bryce Gibbs in a side after giving away about 87184689364739263 penalties the week before and having 10 hit ups for about 20 meters. I don't get it. Then Naming players out of position and so on, only driving the team further into the bad.
 

Gobbso

Juniors
Messages
732
As we know, the mission Statement of this Football club changed some years ago when the club chose to pro-long and secure its future in the NRL by forming a Joint-Venture with Balmain. Since that time, the Football club's structre and vision changed seeing it's potential as a feeder support system to it's NRL entity, establishing itself as a direct pathway for its talent juniors to NRL First Grade.

Since that time, the club has seen the graduation of players in;
-Anthony Laffranchi
-Daniel Fitzhenry
-Luke Covell
-Bryce Gibbs
-Liam Fulton
-Shannon McDonnell
-Dean Collis
-Michael Crocket
-Issac DeGois
-Rocky Trimarchi
-Stuart Flanagan
-Shannon Gallant
-Beau Ryan
-Chris Lawrence
-Peni Tagive
-Daine Laurie

16 NRL Players (minus the exceptions of local juniors inherited or signed after initial debuts for the Western Suburbs Magpies in Ciriaco Mescia, McGuinness Bros. Ken and Kevin, John Skandalis, Brett Hodgson)

Now, 3 years on after winning the Premiership, Wests Tigers find themselves in a spot on bother. A Continual dip in form with the team losing it's way leading into the finals when they have been in a position to consolidate a Finals position yet have come up short time and time again. At any other club, this would not have been tolerated and the broom would have already been through the joint.

It's been stated that a review at Seasons end will come regarding the recruitment, football operations department, Coaching structure and player cleanout with Coach Sheens stating that players will be tapped on the shoulder at that some of the juniors that the club chose to invest in have not fulfilled their expectations, have failed to "grow and mature" in the NRL.

Combine that with a lack of a well established, creative organing Halfback, and there is your reason why failure has occured. It's there in 'Black and White', (pardon the pun). Coach Sheens has been persistent and loyal to many players, most of who have been juniors from this club and the Balmain club. However, whilst he has been persistent, stubbon and loyal, he has failed to recognise other talent worthy of an opportunity, overlooking other talent champing at the bit to prove their worth.

With the off-season not far away, it now gives Coach Sheens the opportunity to rid the deadwood, dismiss the juniors who have not lived up to expectations and re-build yet again for the future. He did it in 2005 and it worked wonders. The handful of experienced old heads with an array of enthusiastic youngsters that just wanted to play football was the perfect ingredient to a elusive Premiership in 2005.

The talent in the NSW Cup and U/20's Squads for Western Suburbs and Wests Tigers respectively are flourishing with Western Suburbs juniors that are waiting for the opportunity and a chance to prove their worth, just like the Laffranchi's, Fulton's, Gibbs' once had to chance to do and never looked back. It's time Coach Sheens and Recruitment Manager McDonnell unearthed some new blood into the Wests Tigers NRL Squad.

Those that are worthy and deserve an opportunity to be apart of the Full-time Squad and to feature in to the top 17 would surely have to include;

-Shannon Gallant
-Nathan Waters
-Wade Dunley
-Nu Akeripa
-Corey Vlaciky
-Robert Lui
-Will Mataka
-Michael Stolk
-Holo Tonga

Gallant is leaps and bounds the best option to fill the vacated Fullback role left by Magpie and Wests Tigers club legend, Brett Hodgson. He has proved he can handle the task and provides Wests Tigers with reliability, great positional play, speed to burn backed up with tremendous support play, ala Hodgo.

Waters, Dunley and Lui. All halves and all better options than John Morris wearing the No.7 Jersey. All 3 players deserve a chance and shot to make the No.7 their own. With no established Halfback in the ranks nor look like attracting one to the club in the near or long-term future, the only option i can see is to give these 3 men a shot. We've seen what Chris Sandow has done to Souths, his enthusiasm has been infectious and really turned around the Bunnies seasons and fortunes. What has Coach Sheens got to lose?

Nu Akeripa is solid consistent and at the moment along with utility Dene Halatau wopuld provide alot more in both attack and defence the Dean Collis. Collis is one of those players and juniors who Sheens has referred to as not living up to expectation nor grown and matured after a few seasons in the NRL. Akeripa should be given a chance.

Vlaciky, Mataka, Stolk and Tonga have been impressive. All big units who bring about size and strength to what has been criticised and labelled as a weak and small pack. With Bronson Harrison being shopped around to UK and NRL clubs, Ben Te'o off to Brisbane, O'Hara off to Celtic in Super League, Metuisela and Danny Galea rumoured to be released, it gives this young crop of forwards the chance to rip and tear and be apart of a re-structuring of a forward pack to support the likes of Gibbs, Galloway, Payten, Laurie, Heighington.

Wests Tigers have stuck by the youth policy for sometime now, believing that the kids coming through from the local junior nursery espeically in the Western Suburbs district will bear success for the future. Well let's see it before it's too late and it wastes away and fades or moves on to green pasturers and has us all seeing red ask the question "why?".

Bring on the next installment of juniors who are ready to put Wests Tigers back into the contenders category and out of the pretenders circle. Bring on the kids that want to play football who have the ability and can bring back that much needed enthusiasm. Something that hasn't been seen since 2005.
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Wests_Magpies_Forum/index.php?showtopic=1226

(Posted: Aug 30 2008, 08:42 PM)

Nice piece of plagerism gurstar. Feel free to quote me in future.
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,384
You should be honoured gobbsy.....not everyone can have such an opinion others would wish to claim it as their own.

Poor form gurstar.
 

gurstar

Juniors
Messages
223
You should be honoured gobbsy.....not everyone can have such an opinion others would wish to claim it as their own.

Poor form gurstar.

i sent gobbso a message and said sorry for not putting his name on it .
so ink dont shoot from the hip pocket first before you know the facts
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
In all respect gurstar, you could've slipped in a simple note in your opening post.

I've done it for you now.

Lets get back to the topic now :arrow:
 
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