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Time to scrap the cap

Messages
3,986
After the storm getting caught cheating, the Gasnier fiasco and now this farce with Greg Inglis surely it is now time to get rid of the cap and make clubs become financially viable to survive.

I mean it is obvious that some clubs are cheating the system anyway so why bother with it

It needs to be raised and a draft needs to come in. Especially now with the Under 20's there.

Between 1967 and 1990 in the AFL only 5 sides won the premiership and only 6 played in GF's.

The draft evened it out. We has one but it was taken to court by T Hill and thrown out. If players want to play in the NRL they must sign it as part of there contract or they are not hired.
 
Messages
3,986
eliminate the cap - better standard of rugby league.

but - it would be at the expense of clubs.

2-3 clubs would cease to exist within 2-3 years.

a further 2-3 clubs would be bankrupt within a year or 2 following.

you start removing clubs from the landscape, you start removing supporters from the game.

the television rights argument isn't worth sh*t if disenfranchised fans turn away from the code.

rugby league has a tribal element that the nrl board is only too aware of. otherwise clubs would have been rissoled quite some time ago.

If they want to expand to Perth and central Coast we could do with rissoling or merging sides within Sydney afterall that is where they would disappear from.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
67,083
yep, for all its problems the points system seems to be the only way to keep players, clubs and fans happy.

I'd be a bit annoyed if i was a player and could earn $800k but was forced to earn $500k. I think 3rd party payments will effectively abolish the cap over the next few years anyway. As more and more rich individuals/businessmen get involved with NRL they will want to use their $'s to better their team ala Souths.
 

LESStar58

Referee
Messages
25,496
How do you raise the cap? What with? There are clubs out there now that cant afford the cap as it is now.

It's called the NRL administration finding new and improved ways of bringing money in to the game through things like, I don't know, better TV and sponsorship deals?
 
Messages
14,538
eliminate the cap - better standard of rugby league.

but - it would be at the expense of clubs.

2-3 clubs would cease to exist within 2-3 years.

a further 2-3 clubs would be bankrupt within a year or 2 following.

you start removing clubs from the landscape, you start removing supporters from the game.

the television rights argument isn't worth sh*t if disenfranchised fans turn away from the code.

rugby league has a tribal element that the nrl board is only too aware of. otherwise clubs would have been rissoled quite some time ago.

But....but....but.....if we elimate the cap all the players will get paid 10 times more than they are getting now...:crazy:
 

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,040
Don't get rid of the cap. just keep making concessions. Make it easier for clubs to retain players and let's play ball.

Oh and to keep rival codes from buying our best players, allow the ARL to increase their contracts keeping them in the game.
 

BunniesMan

Immortal
Messages
33,700
But....but....but.....if we elimate the cap all the players will get paid 10 times more than they are getting now...:crazy:
NRL players are dramatically underpaid relative to other sports and other countries. Lebron James makes more money (just from his nba salary) than 3 nrl teams combined. That's 75 professional athletes.
 

CC_Roosters

First Grade
Messages
5,221
You don't replace a flawed system with a terrible system. It simply needs better policing.

Remove the cap and this will happen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ons#Premier_League_.281992.E2.80.93present.29

And once you remove the cap... you won't be able to put it back on once everyone realises what a terrible idea it is.

well said, most football clubs in europe go into a new season knowing they have no realistic chance of challenging for a national title as the finances are skewed towards a few super clubs in each country, which despite my signature is not desirable at all. That being said i hope to god the IC addresses its flaws and increases it if the new TV deal allows
 

thorson1987

Coach
Messages
16,907
well said, most football clubs in europe go into a new season knowing they have no realistic chance of challenging for a national title as the finances are skewed towards a few super clubs in each country, which despite my signature is not desirable at all. That being said i hope to god the IC addresses its flaws and increases it if the new TV deal allows

Dont quite get what you are saying here. Are you saying it because Rangers are one of the richest clubs in Scotland so you guys and Celtic are always at the top, or, the fact that other clubs in Europe have a sh*tload more money to buy the best players therefore you struggle in the Champions/Europa Leagues.







BTW even Liverpool would win the SPL.
 

CC_Roosters

First Grade
Messages
5,221
Dont quite get what you are saying here. Are you saying it because Rangers are one of the richest clubs in Scotland so you guys and Celtic are always at the top, or, the fact that other clubs in Europe have a sh*tload more money to buy the best players therefore you struggle in the Champions/Europa Leagues.

BTW even Liverpool would win the SPL.

Yes, only a few clubs are capable of winning most of the major leagues and even less in Europe, and this is dictated by a who can spend the most culture. The system is flawed and a salary cap would even out the competition, but it will likely never happen in Spain, England and Italy as the mega clubs have to much to lose, but in ailing comps like the SPL it could breath new life into. Germany seems to be the exception in that the clubs don't have the same spending power as England etc.... but the comp is very even and they are competitive in europe.

Liverpool is a bad word in my house

Back to RL, the cap works so i see no reason to remove it.
 

Big Sam

First Grade
Messages
8,976
The system is flawed and a salary cap would even out the competition, but it will likely never happen in Spain, England and Italy as the mega clubs have to much to lose, but in ailing comps like the SPL it could breath new life into.

A salary cap will never happen over there as the EU has already said it would not allow it as it's a restraint of trade.

In fact it's technically illegal here except no club/competition has had the guts to challenge its legality.

Germany seems to be the exception in that the clubs don't have the same spending power as England etc.... but the comp is very even and they are competitive in europe.

All the clubs in Germany are fan-owned as German law doesn't allow private ownership of sporting clubs (I think), which would explain the lack of spending power.
 

chefman21

Juniors
Messages
1,220
No cap? There will be NO clubs left in 10 years. Not even the rich ones. Why on Earth players are comparing their salaries to other codes is beyond me. Sure, they have similar jobs, but they picked the wrong bloody sport to get paid at that kind of level. Rugby league is broke. We need a salary cap and we need to have one for the next 20 years at least.
 

little_aza

Juniors
Messages
690
The new third party situation is absurd. Clubs are no longer on an even playing field. Clubs like Cronulla, for example, will find it harder to sum up the amount of extrinsic money that Brisbane gets from the Thoroughbreds, or what Inglis is getting from Forrest. The current situation only has advantages in that more money is pumped into the game (albeit only for big contracts for a select handful of rich clubs). Its flaws are that it effectively turns the cap into a farce - it's essentially what the Storm were doing: creating an uneven playing field by placing a club at a greater advantage than another; only now it's a few clubs, and it's legal.

A better solution would obviously be to abolish third-party deals above 20% of club payments, but still pay the big stars more:
1. Any rises to the cap should be fully subsidised by the NRL, meaning no club falls short of a cap increase. This should be in part funded out of some form of yearly means-tested admittance fee to the NRL, adding to the NRL's pool.
2. Raise the cap slightly (say by $400k?), but keep the minimum wage the same. Whilst not very equitable, creating a greater disparity by giving the high-earning superstars of the game a payrise (but not the cheaper blokes) will somewhat lessen the difference with what ESL and rival codes are offering to our top players. And obviously it's only the top players that are applying cap pressure to clubs.
3. Substantially increase all rep payments. SoO and International players should be paid $35k in each game they are selected in the squad. Inglis for example would have earned (if he played all games this year) an additional $280k, on top of club payments. And all rep payments should be directly and only by the NRL, and should be cap exempt. This means the big names get the big dollars, but the clubs are not affected by it in terms of lacking funds, or being pushed over the cap by success.
4. Obviously give generous exemptions to club veterans, in line with what has been proposed, fostering club loyalty and encouraging the long-term development of a playing group.

So for example a player such as Inglis may earn: $500k from his club, $100k from 3rd party. Total amount towards the cap of $600k. He then earns $280k in rep payments. His total earnings are $880k. Clubs don't go broke, they aren't even out of pocket...and who would want to go overseas or to AFL or Onion??

Just my two cents.
 
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bobmar28

Bench
Messages
4,304
True, it would end up like the English Premier League but is there anything wrong with that? Wouldn't it be great for the game to have stars like Hayne and Carney playing on the same team each week?

So long as they playing on your team?

Keep the cap. It is better than the alternative.
 
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super_coach

First Grade
Messages
5,061
With the salary cap now playing such a big role in the game it has to be more transparent. At present every punter on this forum thinks clubs are rorting the cap but in fact we will never know because the books are closed and kept behind closed doors. So we have believe in the NRL that Shoebert and his team are on top of things.

Each club should be forced to submit a open salary cap with all deals in it by round one. Okay people will argue that what a player earns is private information. IMO its the only way the cap will work, take all the mystery out and lay your books out on the table for all to see
 

Ulysseus

Bench
Messages
3,610
The EPL is one of the most popular sporting competitions in the world but don't tell Rugby League administrators who like to cite it as the type of competition we don't want.

It is also carrying billions of dollars in debt which is becoming impossible to service.
Man United do alright, but their revenues aren't even covering their debt anymore and their ability to effectively keep it under control is largely reliant on them winning the f**king thing most of the time.

From a business perspective, debt is good, it lets you achieve things.
However, its the level of this debt relative to ones ability to service it in a timely manner that can become a big f**king issue.
I worked for a company (well, still do, for now) that accrued debt to the tune of 31 billion dollars pre GFC, most of this was wracked up buying out one single company.
16 months later and with the world in the sh*tter that company that cost 38 billion dollars to start with was worth just over half that, leaving a 19 billion dollar hole to be filled, and you don't want to know what the f**king interest per week on 19 billion dollars is.
Fortunately they were able to carve it up keeping the bits they wanted and selling off the rest of it in combination with their revenues to nail the debt on the head.
No such luxury exists in rugby league.


To put this into terms for rugby league, and in my humble and qualified opinion:

1) f**king wake up to yourself, a few clubs can't sustain themselves now, encouraging them to spend beyond their means would f**k them and by virtue the longevity of the game.

2) The game itself isn't even big enough from a revenue perspective to contemplate this sh*t.

3) "Lets get a benefactor" - yeah, great, ask a few of the benefactors of some of the English PL teams what they think of the fact it has gone apesh*t, Al Fayed was publicly pissed off and CALLING FOR A SALARY CAP TO BE INTRODUCED!
Also, benefactors come and go, a few teams have been left high and dry by their "financial saviors" over time, it is f**king embarrassing when they don't make with the cash.

The EPL might be popular, good for it, but as a financial business model it is a f**king joke and to insist that we move in the same direction is suicide for the game.

I don't like the fact that the salary cap essentially favors clubs that can't look after their sh*t properly as they get to stay on near level pegging with others that can most of the time BUT be careful what you wish for.

Also, at what point do we disseminate what type of money can be used in a "no cap" environment?
Do we keep it fair and say that only money generated by direct business related activities by the club can be used to procure and retain players?
Or do we throw the gates open and allow the owners and sponsors to foot the bills?, if that's the case lets just give the title to Newcastle now as their backers, and in one case potential owner, Nathan Tinkler (net worth = about $450+ million dollars) and major sponsor Coal and Allied (profit after all taxes, royalties and other costs from the last two years = 1.1 billion dollars) which is a subsidiary of the 100+ billion dollar Rio Tinto global mining giant - will easily be able to afford any player their heart desires, and even some of the ones they don't, just so your team can't have them.

Spare a thought for poor old Illawarra who, pre merger, were sponsored by BHP, the same BHP that went on to merge with the former Sth African mining company known once as Gencor to become BHP Billition.
I am f**king sure that if the worlds biggest mining company with assets, revenues and real estate to the value of over 150+ billion dollars were throwing a few measly million at the Steelers today in an arrangement with no salary cap (BHP make about 15 billion dollars a year) then they'd be a single entity and a league powerhouse with a few trophies in the cabinet.

Allowing revenue generated exclusively by the clubs to be used in an open slather seems fair enough, but clubs like Cronulla barely exist now, and a few others aren't too far behind, the train of thought here is that a club would need to be a successful business first and foremost in order to succeed on the field at some point.
Allowing people like Tinkler, Politis etc to basically pay the way is unfair to teams who don't have a benefactor and f**ks a few clubs who produce most of the juniors already in the arse (lets be realistic here, when was the last time Manly or the Roosters produced a genuine home grown star from the cradle to first grade).

Undermining all of this is that in rugby league no one plays to finish 7th on the table and make a consistent moderate profit year after year, they play to win the f**king thing.
To win you need the players, to get the players you pay the money.
It is that premise alone that requires most of the restraints we have now to stop clubs self destructing by their own doing.
 

shane87

Juniors
Messages
23
I've thought about this few times.
If they drop the cap most seem to think the same teams would win year after year, but would it really work like that?

The locals + businesess would be lining up to support a winnable team, sponsers for losers are harder to get.

Maybe it would make them play harder, cleverer? I understand under the old system the guys were paid bonus's for a win or had to take jobs to survive and played mostly for the love.

I wouldn't want them to take jobs particulary, but a bonus of some sort with a smaller wage doesn't seem too bad an idea.
 

chefman21

Juniors
Messages
1,220
The way for this code to make money is to invest outside the game, rather than relying on internal investments and benefactors. I think a good chunk of the next TV rights deal (35% of the total) should be invested in both foreign and local, high risk and low risk, long term investments. We need to set a stable foundation financially and to create incomes from outside the game that we still own and have control of. Most of it gets invested internally (65%), but I think we need to have a somewhat more diverse source of income.
 

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