Too much faith in local juniors

[Ant]

I tend to think we have placed far too much faith over the years in our own born and bred players. We spend many of our big dollars on the guys we have brought through the ranks. In particular guys who are true local juniors.
I think this is born of two things:
1. The quality of our juniors, they regularly win or go close to winning in all local grades
2. The late 70s and early 80s super group of local juniors.

I'd add we as fans don't help when we jump up and down like a bunch of lunatics the moment there is any possibility of one of our local "potential" stars looks likely to go elsewhere. The Tony Williams outcry was ridiculous, does anyone still want to pay him $180000 to stay.

We should have learnt from the late 80s when the good times dried up, we only got back on top by the recruitment of some quality players.

The simple fact is our local area may produce a lot of quality junior and fringe first grade footballers, but clearly only occasionally does it produce real star talent. I mean 1980 Brett Kenny debuted, our next one was Michael Buettner is 1992.
97-01 we had another stellar batch debut, 10 players who have gone on to play origin or test footy. But only 4 of those were actual locals, the other 6 came from far and wide to finish their time developing with us.

So in the end we have a team that is very home grown. 15 of our 17 tonight came through our lower grades, I doubt any other side has that much local content. Of those 14, I think 12 Hayne, Inu, Tautai, Williams, Keating, Keating, Mateo, Robinson, Cayless, Cordoba, Paulo and Oake came basically from the parra area.
I'd also add our juniors seem to be a little dominated by players of polynesian descent. These players dominate in lower age groups but are not as dominant at the highest level, partly because their lower grade domination is related to size and strength. Of the 44 players used in SOS this year only 5 were of polynesian descent.

We must start thinking rationally, and signing the best players, as sad as it is to say rugby league is a business and its great to brag about our home grown talent. But theres no bragging when home grown talent is just not that talented.

But quite simply in the end what would you prefer, Hayne/Inu or Folau/Inglis.

We have too much faith in our local juniors, we as a club and as fans must start to simply look at who are the best players, because the side currently dominating has no local juniors, perhaps this makes their recruitment less political and less problematic. They just scour the country for the best kids, then don't have to worry about fitting them in with a huge group of local juniors.

 

[Maroubra Eel]

Our local juniors are awesome. Thay have so much heart and soul. They always give 100% and never say die, just look at tonights game...very impressive.

 

[Phillips]

Folau is the most overated player in the comp.

Hayne and Inu over him anyday of the week.

 

[Maroubra Eel]

Love the way Hayne stood there and didn't even try to keep the dragons 2nd tryscorer from coming around behind the points. The game was about 15 minutes in and he had already turned it up. Good work Jarryd. ps he wasn't the only one just standing there.

 

[muznik]

Folau is the most overated player in the comp.

Hayne and Inu over him anyday of the week.

Well based on tonights performance im not so sure.

Give me a fully fit Inu & a Hayne with his head inthe right place maybe...

At the moment i'd swap em both for Folau and bank the difference in salary cap

 

[Delboy]

It is who you surround the local juniors with and who you retain which is the key.

Keeping say Luke Burt and letting David Williams go is part of the issue, as it is not organising the cap properly, particularly under Hagan, to recruit some hard nosed forwards to help lay a platform. It is like a broken record, but I can't think of a coach who has presided over a fall in a club like we have had in the 2 seasons under Hagan.

 

[The Colonel]

It is who you surround the local juniors with and who you retain which is the key.

Keeping say Luke Burt and letting David Williams go is part of the issue, as it is not organising the cap properly, particularly under Hagan, to recruit some hard nosed forwards to help lay a platform. It is like a broken record, but I can't think of a coach who has presided over a fall in a club like we have had in the 2 seasons under Hagan.

It isn't something that should only be put down to the decisions that Hagan has made though Delboy. The same stupid decisions were being made when Brian Smith, Hilditch and Cronin were in charge.

Watching players do well both in the NRL and overseas that were once part of the Parramatta system has been an ongoing problem for years past.

The big thing that is happenning at the moment is the fact that the Premier League squads that helped bolster the depth within the club has thinned because of the emergence of the NYC. I think this season has just highlighted the lack of good recruitment issues that have existed for a long time.

 

[Ant]

It is like a broken record, but I can't think of a coach who has presided over a fall in a club like we have had in the 2 seasons under Hagan.

Look am I not happy with our performance either, but that last quote is ridiculous.
We scraped into the top 8 in 2006 on 28 points.
We just missed the GF in 2007, so Hagan took us nearly to the top last year.
In 2008 we could conceivably finish on the same amount of points as we did in 2006 and worst case only 2 points less.

So if it was shown in graph it would go up in 2007 hagan's first year and then return to the same place it started in his second. If you credit Hagan with the downfall in 2008 you must credit him with the great form of 2007.

Now I don't if Hagan is our major problem, but we sure blamed Brian smith for a lot and things haven't gone any better since he left.

 

[Delboy]

Ant, have you ever spoken to the coach, he has no personality.

Look , I am sure he can coach, but he can't motivate , and we have lacked structure all year. Certainly the players have to bear some blame, but who picks them week in weekout, for no improvement. I am in Newcastle twice a week on business, and let me say that the opinion of those who know their football up there, has been realised in what has happened as Parra.

 

[Kornstar]

Look am I not happy with our performance either, but that last quote is ridiculous.
We scraped into the top 8 in 2006 on 28 points.
We just missed the GF in 2007, so Hagan took us nearly to the top last year.
In 2008 we could conceivably finish on the same amount of points as we did in 2006 and worst case only 2 points less.

So if it was shown in graph it would go up in 2007 hagan's first year and then return to the same place it started in his second. If you credit Hagan with the downfall in 2008 you must credit him with the great form of 2007.

Now I don't if Hagan is our major problem, but we sure blamed Brian smith for a lot and things haven't gone any better since he left.

What a load of rubbish, we were sh*t last year, plain and simple!!!!

We did not string together 3 wins in a row during the regular season, when we finally did it was against an extremely depleted Bronco's side (round 25) who lost Hodges during the match.

Then we got amazingly lucky against the first week of the finals vs the Warriors who bombed a certain try that would have won them the game and then we only just beat a Dogs side that had given up, we were not convincing at all!!!!

Do you remember the Canberra game last year at all???? I do, it was a very depressing drive home!

Hagan got lucky that we made it to the GF qualifier last year and we were never going to win that game and we never looked like winning it, we certainly played better in that game than we had all year imo but given that we played sh*t all year before it we didn't know how to compete with a team as good as the Storm.

Hagan has f*cked our club and even worse is that d*ckhead Fitzy has let him and should take full responsibility for everything!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ant]

Watching players do well both in the NRL and overseas that were once part of the Parramatta system has been an ongoing problem for years past.

The big thing that is happenning at the moment is the fact that the Premier League squads that helped bolster the depth within the club has thinned because of the emergence of the NYC. I think this season has just highlighted the lack of good recruitment issues that have existed for a long time.

I think the the two comments above point out part of our problem as fans, we dwell on eels players who leave to the point where we keep too many.

Because to be honest I think we have lost very few players of great quality over the last 10 years.
Schifcofske, Hodgson, Ryan, Cayless, Lyon, Mogg, Tonga, Tahu and McKinnon. Those would be the only 7 guys who I think would have been better than what we have. Now lets face it 3 are fullbacks, and it simply went Schifcofske - Hodgson - Mckinnon. Each replaced the other, until Mckinnon. We bet on Burt and got it wrong.
Tonga and Mogg left because of Lyon and Vaealiki. Vaealiki just lost it. Lyon went AWOL, and realistically was a big loss. As was Tahu.

But in the end Ryan and Cayless have been our biggest losses because we have had good outside backs continually arrive.

But the notion we have all these ex parra players doing really well in my view is a falacy. But it backs up the idea that we can't be letting current parra players go because "they'll star for other clubs just like those other guys".

I agree on recuitment we have been poor, but as I said I think it is hindered by this notion that we must hold our own players at the club first.

 

[Delboy]

Colonel, I am not saying that Brian Smith did not have issues, but what is happening is I believe more serious than when Brain was here.

You could at least anticipate he was working towards something. and at worst we had structure, this season and most of last year was diabolical, and if you think that the coach shouldn't shoulder most of the blame, then we will agree to disagree. In my opinion, he has done nothing to improve the club, and that is his major responsibility

 

[torpedo]

We are like the NRL now, we have no future plan...This goes for the club and the team.

 

[Phillips]

I think the the two comments above point out part of our problem as fans, we dwell on eels players who leave to the point where we keep too many.

Because to be honest I think we have lost very few players of great quality over the last 10 years.
Schifcofske, Hodgson, Ryan, Cayless, Lyon, Mogg, Tonga, Tahu and McKinnon. Those would be the only 7 guys who I think would have been better than what we have. Now lets face it 3 are fullbacks, and it simply went Schifcofske - Hodgson - Mckinnon. Each replaced the other, until Mckinnon. We bet on Burt and got it wrong.
Tonga and Mogg left because of Lyon and Vaealiki. Vaealiki just lost it. Lyon went AWOL, and realistically was a big loss. As was Tahu.

But in the end Ryan and Cayless have been our biggest losses because we have had good outside backs continually arrive.

But the notion we have all these ex parra players doing really well in my view is a falacy. But it backs up the idea that we can't be letting current parra players go because "they'll star for other clubs just like those other guys".

I agree on recuitment we have been poor, but as I said I think it is hindered by this notion that we must hold our own players at the club first.

Andrew Ryan didnt play that great in 02.. i wasnt really THAT disapointed to see him go.

am i the only person who would have kept Willie Tonga over David Vaealiki, even back then when Vaealiki as an international..

even though he had a run with injuries, would have loved to have kept Pat Richards.

 

[salvy71]

Look am I not happy with our performance either, but that last quote is ridiculous.
We scraped into the top 8 in 2006 on 28 points.
We just missed the GF in 2007, so Hagan took us nearly to the top last year.
In 2008 we could conceivably finish on the same amount of points as we did in 2006 and worst case only 2 points less.

So if it was shown in graph it would go up in 2007 hagan's first year and then return to the same place it started in his second. If you credit Hagan with the downfall in 2008 you must credit him with the great form of 2007.

Now I don't if Hagan is our major problem, but we sure blamed Brian smith for a lot and things haven't gone any better since he left.

What that graph wouldn't show is that Parramatta finished 2006 strongly and with 6 prop fowards sitting on the sideline injured , if it wasn't for that they would have finished 4th or 5th and given the finals series a shake ...as it was they only lost by 6 points to the minor premiers Melbourne in week 1 of the finals . We're looking at 10th or 11th spot this year with things looking very dismal for 2009 so we have gone backwards , maybe not dramatically , but after next year you'll find that graph will probably plummet to wooden spoon contenders .
I'll credit Hagan for 2007 , but one wonders whether that was off the back of 2006 when the Eels won 9 games straight until they ran out of forwards .

 

[The Colonel]

Colonel, I am not saying that Brian Smith did not have issues, but what is happening is I believe more serious than when Brain was here.

You could at least anticipate he was working towards something. and at worst we had structure, this season and most of last year was diabolical, and if you think that the coach shouldn't shoulder most of the blame, then we will agree to disagree. In my opinion, he has done nothing to improve the club, and that is his major responsibility

I don't disagree. The problem though will continue while the CEO and Board in its current form remain. They seem to be the constant. Changes are needed not only at a coaching level but at the head office and board level. Given the recent events of the past two weeks, of which I would guess you would also be aware, I am not surprised in the lack of enthusiasm that was shown tonight and against the Dogs.

 

[torpedo]

whats happened in the last 2 weeks?

 

[Delboy]

What has happened around the club should not impact on the field, look at Cronulla and the way Stuart led the way.
The major problem is that the CEO tends to answer to noone, and the Board should stand up and be counted. But in the end, the coach is responsible for what results we get, and it will get worse next year, Dennis went out and recruited Hagan, what chance do we have of the CEO admitting he made a mistake,not much I would think.

 

[The Colonel]

I think the the two comments above point out part of our problem as fans, we dwell on eels players who leave to the point where we keep too many.

Because to be honest I think we have lost very few players of great quality over the last 10 years.
Schifcofske, Hodgson, Ryan, Cayless, Lyon, Mogg, Tonga, Tahu and McKinnon. Those would be the only 7 guys who I think would have been better than what we have. Now lets face it 3 are fullbacks, and it simply went Schifcofske - Hodgson - Mckinnon. Each replaced the other, until Mckinnon. We bet on Burt and got it wrong.
Tonga and Mogg left because of Lyon and Vaealiki. Vaealiki just lost it. Lyon went AWOL, and realistically was a big loss. As was Tahu.

But in the end Ryan and Cayless have been our biggest losses because we have had good outside backs continually arrive.

But the notion we have all these ex parra players doing really well in my view is a falacy. But it backs up the idea that we can't be letting current parra players go because "they'll star for other clubs just like those other guys".

I agree on recuitment we have been poor, but as I said I think it is hindered by this notion that we must hold our own players at the club first.

They don't all do fantastically but look at some of the younger players we have let go in the last twelve months or so - Zeb Taia, John and David Williams. All three have played consistent football and when you look at the players that have been kept ahead of them you question why. Sure, you can't keep them all but at times you wonder why some are kept at all or the club don't look outside the system that is apparently the envy of the rest of the NRL.

 

[Glenn]

The over reliance on Juniors is nothing new, can go back to the late 80's.