Toulouse to Super League

[Dogs Of War]

Actually yes they do and that is why there is talk of taking a SOO/ANZAC test to them in the very near future and also the junior ranks are swelling....which is giving rise to reinstating an NRL team there.

Where have you heard this talk? Do you have any links to this talk?

I find it hard to believe that they would give WA a big match like this without laying some groundwork such as getting NRL teams playing over their more regually first.

 

[Sam_the_man]

Where have you heard this talk? Do you have any links to this talk?

I find it hard to believe that they would give WA a big match like this without laying some groundwork such as getting NRL teams playing over their more regually first.

Theres a link on this very web site.....somewhere about news of a west australian league official talking up the chances of getting an ANZAC test there in the near future and also setting up another NRL side there. Exactly where it is i can't recall but i'm sure others like myself that stick mainly to the international section will have read it also.

 

[terracesider]

on a side note why are the crusaders not up to standard , is it simply a financial issue? b/c obviously the player roster will completley change if they made the super league.

It depends what you mean by standard. They were competitive. Starting from scratch, they've had a very good year, much better than might be expected. I'd call it a successful year. However, they would need a completey new player roster to compete in NL1. Even to win NL2 will probably require significant rebuilding.

In part it must be a financial issue since their gates in NL2 have been fairly disappointing at times. Bowes might have the detailed sesaonal figures but only 687 for the biggest game in their history - play offs against Swinton - was poor.

 

[Sam_the_man]

I disagee that they need a completely new playing roster. What they need is one very good prop who can mentor the Crusaders pack. A better than average second rower to teach the young players about work rates and a hard as nails center to lead the backs around the park with that never say die attitude and never take a backward step to anyone.
Obviously a class half back or 5/8 wouldn't go astray either but with the above players in the squad they could really start to prove themselves.

 

[bowes]

I disagee that they need a completely new playing roster. What they need is one very good prop who can mentor the Crusaders pack. A better than average second rower to teach the young players about work rates and a hard as nails center to lead the backs around the park with that never say die attitude and never take a backward step to anyone.
Obviously a class half back or 5/8 wouldn't go astray either but with the above players in the squad they could really start to prove themselves.

What for? To win NL2 maybe just a few choice players, but to compete in NL1 (which is a far higher standard than NL2, no promoted team has ever stayed up) they would need a lot of new players and to play in SL they'd need to replace every player

 

[winnyason]

got to be honest english fans need to stop being so negative, the game needs to move out of the north. the rfl need to show some ambition & rather than go for the conservative choices of sheffield & doncaster go for toulouse & celtic.
a couple of things as to why toulouse should be in:
*crowds around 2 thousand at present and could get simliar averages to catalans in sl.
*money biggest growing city in france & big english population
*the relationship with rugby union powerhouse toulouse 15 & could even get them invovled money wise.
*get genuine national exposure for france with a derby, this will help.
*sure people will say where will talent come from what about quins full of aussies & kiwis, do the same with probably gresssque, cedric gay & slvain houles the french contengent.

 

[langpark]

I wouldn't consider Sheffield or Doncaster conservative choices, but i get wat you're saying.

Even if Toulouse do average 3000 in their first year i don't have a problem with that, Quins, Wakey, Salford and Hudds have been similar for years. Tho i think they'll average close to 6000. I think Toulouse will also attract massive sponsorship deals as the exposure in two sizeable nations is attractive, as well as the TV exposure in decent numbers in four different nations.

 

[winnyason]

see your point lang park, toulouse far from a risk it has a history don't know how the poms are liking it to paris.they should have been before catalans.
is a calculated risk.

 

[terracesider]

It's about realism not being conservative. There is no point throwing good money after bad.

Over the last 50 years, the one brief success story in expansion was Sheffield, where, even though Hetherington did everything right, that couldn't be sustained. Doncaster have struggled for years. Although they are in a decent patch at present, it's largely due to John Wright's money and gates remain disappointing.

If sustainable expansion is gong to happen it will,as Homer said, have to come from establishing a local infrastructure.

 

[bowes]

Even if Toulouse do average 3000 in their first year i don't have a problem with that, Quins, Wakey, Salford and Hudds have been similar for years. Tho i think they'll average close to 6000.

Not in itself but if they budget for 5000 (as they are) and get 3000 in their first year then it is guaranteed to fail.

Salford got about 4500, Quins and Wakey about 5000 and Huddersfield maybe about 6000 last season though admittedly the Broncos got 4000 and it sent them to the wall. So in short 3000 in their first season would be completely unacceptable especially as 1st season crowds are usually higher than normal.

 

[bartman]

I think the league's idea behind the franchises is that they must be sustainable first and foremost. Comes down to if Toulouse can produce a (realistic) business case and preparations as to whether they'd be accepted in the changes/expansion for 2009.

Obviously if they are budgetting on factors better than anything Catalans will have achieved in their first two seasons - or trying to do that with less community or infrastructure - the league should tell Tolouse they are dreaming and to go away and come back with a better plan for 2012.

Too early to tell for mine, but it's an obvious future ambition to have a second french team in the top flite, the only questions is when is it the right time. Ditto for the Celtic Crusaders, will their local development be enough to carry them in the top flight from 2009 or will that be too soon? Again, a bit too early to tell, but their time will come at some point or another.

Hopefully the league will be sensible about it all, and they've already said somewhere that it won't necessarily go to 14 teams in 2009 unless the teams are ready for the expansion.

 

[terracesider]

Hopefully the league will be sensible about it all, and they've already said somewhere that it won't necessarily go to 14 teams in 2009 unless the teams are ready for the expansion.

RFL sensible? That will be a first. I can see it being a disaster if the usual suspects are in charge, but who knows - Richard Lewis might bring some sense to it all, if he's allowed to.

I cannot see the point of a franchise system in which the top five or six clubs are able to spend much more money that the rest. To go down the franchise route, at the very least ESL needs to become a level playing field financially.

 

[terracesider]

Or an Auckland team at the expense of the NZ domestic comp. Or a North Queensland team at the expense of the Foley Shield. The answer is pretty obvious - to allow the best players in these comps a clear path to the next level for the overall benefit of the game, especially locally.

Leigh

Sorry for the late repy, but I've been looking for an RL Journal article (print only, not online), without success, which argued convincingly that Catalan in ESL has had a negative effect on the rest of French RL.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Sorry for the late repy, but I've been looking for an RL Journal article (print only, not online), without success, which argued convincingly that Catalan in ESL has had a negative effect on the rest of French RL.

I think you would admit though that NZ rugby league has done nothing but improve since the introduction of the warriors.

rugby league in NZ needs the australian element to help it compete against union , without it they would be swamped. Even with it though is a struggle.

at this point i cant see anything other than the ESL helping french rugby league get some publicity in france. unless murdoch wants to pump a lazy 500 million in there.

 

[Quidgybo]

Sorry for the late repy, but I've been looking for an RL Journal article (print only, not online), without success, which argued convincingly that Catalan in ESL has had a negative effect on the rest of French RL.

Perhaps it has, just as the Broncos had a negative effect on the local Brisbane Rugby League. That doesn't mean that on balance it hasn't been good for the game in Queensland or beyond. In the case of French clubs in SL, they will inevitably draw attention away from the local domestic leagues. This is because they will become the new first tier of RL in that country and so will be where the new fans and the media spotlight naturally gravitates.

But the positive effects of these teams will also far exceed anything the local competitions are able to deliver by providing regular television exposure that actually returns money to the game and a professional pool of french players from which to select the national team. This will have a flow on effect at all levels of the game in France. It will increase participation at the lower levels as juniors find new heavily marketed heros to emulate, and help turn France into a more competitive power on the international stage (again more publicity). There is no doubt that the change will bring both good and bad consequences but the verdict has to made on balance, not just on the fact that it has had some negative effects.

Leigh.

 

[yankeerugger]

the last poster does have a point... I think that any negative effects would have to be temporary. In time the benofits will filter down to the lower levels and to the grass roots level. In time these will feed the upper levels (two ESL sides, and national side) which will further spur on growth in the lower levels...

I for one would love to see a second french side. Toulouse would be ideal for so many reasons. Catalans, well, they would be the first to say that they are not "really french", and having a Toulouse side would help other regions of france have a team that they could identify with. Not to mention the rivalry that a french derby could drum up. These sorts of things fill venue, make headlines, and attract sponsors.

 

[langpark]

Does anyone know if Toulouse plan to renovate their current ground or will they just play at the 19k seater that already exists?

I'd like to see them play at the 19k venue, coz i honestly think the sky is the limit for Toulouse. But then again, they'd be set for the future if they could own their own stadium, i just hope it's not too small of a capacity.

 

[yankeerugger]

from what I've heard, the RU side in Toulouse, and the city government are much more occomodating to RL then can be said for Perpignon (sp?)...

That said, I think that they could work out a ground share agreement for the existing 19,000 seater RU stadium.

Then if they have some very big matches and are able to fill a larger venue (say for the inter/french derby, play-offs...) they could make plans to book the soccer stadium which seats 37,000 and is a top notch venue. I've seen some RU matches from here...

 

[winnyason]

the big thing that will hold toulouse back is there stadium, with the likes of doncaster, castleford, st helens, salford all building new stadia.
money wise they should be there but the stadium is a drawback union ground is there big hope.
i would say we would have to find out mid 2007 if they are sucessful for 2009 would we, any definite date english fellas.

 

[carlnz]

I think you would admit though that NZ rugby league has done nothing but improve since the introduction of the warriors.

I think the game was close to death, then in 1995 when the Warriors came in playing numbers doubled....