Union scouts prey on Toyota Cup

[gong_eagle]

Union scouts prey on Toyota Cup

By Josh Massoud | August 16, 2008
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/sport/nrl/story/0,26799,24186190-5006066,00.html

RUGBY union has seized on a new avenue to decimate the NRL, with cross-code scouts preying on scores of Under-20s players who will be ineligible for next season's Toyota Cup. In a chilling statement for league powerbrokers, ARU high performance manager David Nucifora last night revealed rugby is about to exploit the fact 152 of this year's Toyota Cup stars - almost half the field - will be too old to play in the 2009 National Youth League (NYC).
Nucifora confirmed the ARU had anticipated the upcoming flood of unaccommodated junior league stars, and has been watching the talent closely all season.
"We're very aware that they can't house everyone once they are over the age limit," he said.
"If there's not the succession planning to find them a home in league, then they've got to end up somewhere.
"We've been watching lots of talented boys running around in the NYC.
"We've got Michael O'Connor to identify talent - he's always watching the NYC with an eye to who would do well in rugby."
Players who are too old for the NYC and not offered an NRL contract would normally filter through to the NSW Cup.
But that pathway eroded dramatically this week, with news that Manly and Newcastle intend to withdraw their feeder sides from the all-age competition in 2009. Both clubs are expected to link with Queensland Cup sides, meaning more young NSW players will be forced interstate if they wish to continue in rugby league.
"The NYC has some very good advantages in that it allows players to compete at a national level at a very young age," Nucifora said.
"The obvious negative is that they can't all be given contracts in the NRL. Those that don't will look at options, and given what's happened recently, rugby union is definitely an option."
Leading NRL recruitment managers and player agents confirmed sightings of ARU-affiliated scouts at Toyota Cup matches.
Bulldogs recruitment head Peter Mulholland has 13 NYC players who turn 21 next year, but can only graduate eight to the club's NSW Cup side.
"Rugby is taking a big interest in the players that will fall between the cracks - I know for a fact their people are watching all the NYC games," he said.
Player agent Sam Ayoub said today's NYC stars could only expect to earn between $3000 and $8000 in the NSW Cup.
"They have to train four days a week, and play on the weekend," Ayoub said.
"Some are asking whether it would be better off going back to the workforce or giving rugby union a try."
Ayoub slammed the NRL for not implementing "success- ion planning".
"They are making the same mistake everyone in rugby league has accused rugby union of doing for the last 10 years," he said.
"They are taking away a career pathway for more and more players to reach the top level."
Backing Nucifora's warning, Ayoub revealed three Sydney-based rugby clubs had contacted him in the past week to inquire about available league stars.
Nucifora said he had no misgivings about cherrypicking players that the rival code had developed.
"They've had a taste of high-level football in the NYC and it's natural for them to want to be given the opportunity to continue to do that," he said.
"Guys like Berrick Barnes have gone over to league and had a taste and got some development over there.
"Now they are back in rugby, and I'd like to think their success might make a few others think about doing the same."

 

[Day of Rockening]

The articles problem. if you dont know the situation, all you read is "Union is poaching league players - again ".

this is the kind of sh!T you dont want out there, and i think some people at least might read it like that.

you kind of want very old players still playing, clinging onto the dream. they can do that in the qld and nsw cups.

i know everything is done for a reason, and when they came up with this u20 model, they must have had financial savings in mind and a specific group of players. fair enough. I can see all the benefits. However, its not a model for everything (is any) and this model does not lend itself well to player retention....other leagues are there for that.


I dont like it when players leave....even if they can't play at the top level, you hope they still play somewhere....but in reality, who cares...

there is an excess of players in the market, and they must play some game somewhere....and I would think the nrl would still retain the top youth players easily.

They talk about a crap pathway for rl or make it out as that- but have they had a look at Unions pathway in this country? Its much much much worse.

 

[Bezant]

Wow...now we really are in trouble:crazy::sarcasm:.

Union is going to go after blokes who cant make the grade it in the NRL. This from the same mob who just announced Mark McLinden as a major signing for the QLD Reds. Cant they produce any player themselves. Thats ok, union can go right ahead and keep telling juniors to play league through their actions, at least your in demand all over the world if you come through the ranks in the NRL.

We may have something to worry about from the French Union clubs, who are spending cash in what seems to be an unsustainable fashion at present, but I'm cant say I'm too worried about the joke that is Rugby Union in Australia at present.

Mark McLinden...major coup .....:roll::lol:

The question I have with all this scaremongering is how many other French Union clubs will be willing to have to pay $1m a year and a $750 transfer fee to get a player who has no experience playing union and whos best assets (shoulder charge and lose carry for pass around the back) are of detrimental value in Union?

Is all this talk of Union buying up big really sustainable? Only time will tell I guess but the threat is from France, not from the anemic ARU.

 

[NK Arsenal]

i think this proves that the nrl is the best rugby comp in the world

 

[Parra]

If only it was as simple as some people believe.

There is no way that all the top talent is identified in the U20's comp. Even if it is, budget restrictions and the salary cap will mean that not every player will get a contract.

There will be players that are not offered an NRL contract at 20 that go on to be superstars. There will also be players who are given huge contracts (and already have them) that go on to be a waste of space.

The NRL set up this comp, and rugby will also benefit from the talent on display. There is really nothing that can be done about it.

Would have been the same with the ARC - talented rugby players would have been more exposed to the NRL scouts.

 

[brendothejet]

Would have been the same with the ARC - talented rugby players would have been more exposed to the NRL scouts.

Im actually at a loss as to which funny one liner to dish out.

Suffice to say i think we all know there are a helluva lot more in the NYC that could play for the wallabies, than the ARC was ever gonna give us Kangaroos.

LOL @ ARC

1 year wonders.

 

[butchmcdick]

So there are no league scouts at schoolboy union games anymore then ? This cross code poaching sh*t has been going on forever and a day.

I got no problem with players who are not going to make it as proffessional league players exploring their options elsewhere. The bulk of the under 20's were never going to amount to a pile of sh*t anyway and the ones who are too old now have buggar all options open to them as another poster has highlighted.

 

[Edwahu]

Guess this and Mclinden is the best they can do now European Rugby has arrived.

 

[Dr Crane]

Regardless, this is where the lack of a fully integrated open age competition is going to hurt.

 

[krudmonk]

Are they feeding them cheeseburgers, too? Gotta prep for union now.

 

[Eagle_Rocker]

I think they should raise the age level from under 20s to atleast under 22s or 23s. It can't be expected for all players who are capable of being at NRL standard to be ready by the time they reach the age of 20. It will not be hard to entice players away from the NSW and QLD cup competitions if they feel as though they have been demoted from the Toyota Cup and are now out of sight out of mind. Apart from a few exceptions, by the age of 22 and 23 players will either have been promoted to the NRL or atleast know if they are a serious chance of making it in the big time.

 

[griff]

It really shows the need for a second tier open age competition.

 

[ByRd]

Toyota Cup imo should of been u 23's from the start, alot of players, especially forwards dont develop til later on and u 20's is such a small time frame, i think we should look at increasing the age limit over the years.

 

[Eagle_Rocker]

Toyota Cup imo should of been u 23's from the start, alot of players, especially forwards dont develop til later on and u 20's is such a small time frame, i think we should look at increasing the age limit over the years.

Exactly, I don't understand why they thought the 20 year age limit was the magic number. The NRL are trying to build an elite 2nd tier competition yet they only allow school kids to be apart of it. Bumping the age up to under 23s will vastly improve the competition and allow players a longer period, in a true 2nd tier competition, to develop into NRL standard.

 

[Calixte]

Still waiting for the article that goes something like...

"Union powerbrokers today admitted that their lack of depth is at alarming stages and their only real option is to continue to try and poach as make rugby league talent as humanly possible.

John O'Neill commented that rugby league has always done, and continues to do, a superb job at player development - to the extent to which union can only drool at the stituation and its "performance managers" watch weekly Toyota Cup matches over buckets of KFC at Rugby (sic) HQ."

 

[stormtragic]

lol...this is actually a huge compliment to rugby league...and it shows what shambles rah rah is in...

 

[BrisVegas]

I think they should raise the age level from under 20s to atleast under 22s or 23s. It can't be expected for all players who are capable of being at NRL standard to be ready by the time they reach the age of 20. It will not be hard to entice players away from the NSW and QLD cup competitions if they feel as though they have been demoted from the Toyota Cup and are now out of sight out of mind. Apart from a few exceptions, by the age of 22 and 23 players will either have been promoted to the NRL or atleast know if they are a serious chance of making it in the big time.

I don't know what sort of profile the NSW cup has, but in QLD the QLD Cup is seen as a promotion from the under 20's. I would even argue that the QLD Cup has a profile equal to or greater than the NYC, both of which are broadcast, the QLD Cup on FTA.

I know the Broncos, Cowboys and Canberra promote their under 20's players to their respective QLD Cup clubs before giving them a run in the NRL. It's seen as a better preperation for the physical requirements ot the NRL. It obviously has it's merits as Manly will link up with the Sunshine Coast Sea-Eagles next season, and rumors that Newcastle will be linking up with a QLD Cup team as well.

 

[PARRA_FAN]

The writing's on the wall, I mean if players are over 20 next year havent fully developed, do you think they enjoy playing Park footy in front of 100 people if theyre not in first grade.

I dont know if Union are keen to poach players but definately ESL. I mean players are keen to take the massive offer from ESL and possibly Frenc

Yes Toyota Cup is a good idea, but how about another 2nd tier comp for all ages.

 

[Stranger]

I don't get it. Union seem intent on poaching players from league, but its like putting a band-aid on a broken arm. They won't fix their shrinking player pool by buying Leagues leftovers.

 

[Eels Dude]

The writing's on the wall, I mean if players are over 20 next year havent fully developed, do you think they enjoy playing Park footy in front of 100 people if theyre not in first grade.

I dont know if Union are keen to poach players but definately ESL. I mean players are keen to take the massive offer from ESL and possibly Frenc

Yes Toyota Cup is a good idea, but how about another 2nd tier comp for all ages.

The age should be raised. Perhaps to Under 23's. A lot of players, especially forwards take longer to develop and aren't ready for the step up from U20's to NRL at the age of 20 or 21.

I don't think the ESL would be coming after U20's players. I'm sure that players have to have played a certain level of NRL games before being recruited by ESL clubs, and with quota limits they're going to go for proven players.

Similarly, with French rugby, they're not going to waste their time with young unproven players. They've money to spend, but they're going to use it wisely, mainly on big names.