Union's Loss, Leagues Gain?

[Perth Red]

Like I wrote before though, he’s not going to be able to do that for long. Nothing he has proposed remotely addresses the underlying problems with Rugby in Australia and a Frank Lowy like sugar hit isn’t about to change that. Indeed, at least Lowy had a plan to address some of the problems soccer faced; Twiggy hasn’t done that remotely. At present, the only thing I can see Forrest achieving is diminishing his standing as a billionaire to that of a multimillionaire.

You mean apart from getting the Force back up and running by creating an international comp out of nothing, changing the rules of the game to make it more appealing and committing $50mill to fund Jnr RU programs? You mean he hasnt done anything other than that? Twiggy earnt $1.34billion LAST YEAR!
I dont think whatever he wanted to spend on Union is going to make him poor lol.

Twiggy is interested in one thing ,the Force and it's survival.No Force ,he's got better things to do.

The thought he would act as a charity to underpin RA, is extremely unlikely.The incompetence they have shown over the years, suggests they couldn't run a school canteen.

You're right he wouldn't, but in a scenario like posted where the RA didnt exist because it handed over to NRL I can see him quite gladly relaunch union in this country under his stewardship and financing.

 

[RoosTah]

You mean apart from getting the Force back up and running by creating an international comp out of nothing, changing the rules of the game to make it more appealing and committing $50mill to fund Jnr RU programs? You mean he hasnt done anything other than that? Twiggy earnt $1.34billion LAST YEAR!
I don't think whatever he wanted to spend on Union is going to make him poor lol.

I just think you assume a higher level of capability and interest from the bloke than he's actually got. Part of me would also curious to see what it would look like for him to take over the game, but to date the "rapid rugby" nonsense he came up with doesn't inspire me with much hope.

In truth, what did he really do there? He stitched together a bunch of offcuts of the sport that no one wanted or cared much for and the result was a mickey mouse competition that no one watched, took seriously or cared about in the Rugby world.

He basically created it to keep the Force on life support, and if that's his crowning achievement, then the game's standards need to be higher if it wants to do anything more than limp along like it has for the past decade. If Twiggy wants to really revive Union, he'll need to go to war with the AFL on the east coast, and I just don't see that happening.

 

[taipan]

You mean apart from getting the Force back up and running by creating an international comp out of nothing, changing the rules of the game to make it more appealing and committing $50mill to fund Jnr RU programs? You mean he hasnt done anything other than that? Twiggy earnt $1.34billion LAST YEAR!
I dont think whatever he wanted to spend on Union is going to make him poor lol.



You're right he wouldn't, but in a scenario like posted where the RA didnt exist because it handed over to NRL I can see him quite gladly relaunch union in this country under his stewardship and financing.

If union was incapable of standing on its own two feet ,and was taken over, my view Twiggy would get a WA side into SE Asia or even Africa.
My impression of him, is a guy who is very pro WA, doesn't like sport in WA getting shafted particularly the Force then grassroots .A sort of look at me guy ,like Dick Smith in Sydney.
He'd be very conscious of the fact, there are stacks of wealthy business people on the East Coast with a union bent, who should be underpinning the code.
Anyway it's not going to happen, union will continue to plod along here ,with the Wallabies the only ones able to steady a leaking ship.
If I could be sure rl could get into GPS and Associated schools if union folded,I'd be wrapped.

 

[Perth Red]

All I know is I wish he had grown up playing RL!
I have great fears for all the advancement we have made in the grassroots in WA now he is going to spend $50mil on Union Jnr programs. The NRL wouldn't spend that much here over 30 years!

 

[RoosTah]

All I know is I wish he had grown up playing RL!
I have great fears for all the advancement we have made in the grassroots in WA now he is going to spend $50mil on Union Jnr programs. The NRL wouldn't spend that much here over 30 years!

I wouldn't worry - the great thing about Union juniors is they make a great feeder system for the NRL

 

[reanimate]

twiggy would just take over the whole game and have it back up and running in a few months,

As pointed out- any reason why he’d want anything to do with the east coast Rugby Australia rabble? If anything he’d cut them all adrift and start afresh with everything under his control, which would take a long time to build up again from. Neither position is all that enviable, either you inherit all the idiots and their problems which brought Union to the state it’s in, or you start afresh, which comes with its own set of problems.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I'm surprised Twiggy Forrest hasn't tried to get the Force admitted into the Japanese RU competition. The whole reason for RU existing in Japan is business owners see it as an opportunity to network with other businessmen from England, NZ, South Africa and France. Twiggy would probably benefit more from networking with that group than the ARU, NZRU and SARU.

 

[RoosTah]

I'm surprised Twiggy Forrest hasn't tried to get the Force admitted into the Japanese RU competition. The whole reason for RU existing in Japan is business owners see it as an opportunity to network with other businessmen from England, NZ, South Africa and France. Twiggy would probably benefit more from networking with that group than the ARU, NZRU and SARU.

It's more than that in Japan - Union in Japan is also just an old boys club internally. All the big unis play it, with the Keio and Waseda rivalry being akin to Oxford/Cambridge in terms of rivalry, and so their alumni that go into the corporate world see it as a kind of status thing.

Ironically, that's what's largely made the game kinda backward with its weird corporate set-up.... the sides aren't sponsored by companies; they're literal parts of them and so it's not like they represent towns and can seek additional sponsorship, and that limits their appeal and growth potential. They even contract players as though it's still the amateur days. I remember listening to Craig Wing describe how under his contract with NTT he was technically just a really highly paid clerk for the company and was required to come in and shuffle papers a day a week lol.

What's interesting is that soccer was set up the same way until the '80s and was actually a lesser known and played sport up to that point (baseball is still the biggest though), but they reformed their structure and disentangled their teams from the big zaibatsu and made them standalone entities. Since then they've shot way ahead of Union as a result.

With all that said, I have wondered if there's an opportunity in Japan. I'd love to see the NRL plant some seeds by just recruiting a couple promising players from their domestic competition. It'd become a news item and spread a bit of awareness about the NRL.

 

[reanimate]

With all that said, I have wondered if there's an opportunity in Japan. I'd love to see the NRL plant some seeds by just recruiting a couple promising players from their domestic competition. It'd become a news item and spread a bit of awareness about the NRL.

Our recruitment is terrible, in that sense. That’s why I don’t buy the insufficient talent for expansion argument, until we’re raiding the Union stocks of countries like South Africa, Japan, Argentina etc, you can’t say there isn’t enough talent for expansion, we’re just not looking hard enough. Especially when it comes to South Africa, there’s a stack of decent players that would probably make better League than Union players stuck in lower leagues there that would relish the chance to come and live in Australia and earn some Australian dollars.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

It's more than that in Japan - Union in Japan is also just an old boys club internally. All the big unis play it, with the Keio and Waseda rivalry being akin to Oxford/Cambridge in terms of rivalry, and so their alumni that go into the corporate world see it as a kind of status thing.

Ironically, that's what's largely made the game kinda backward with its weird corporate set-up.... the sides aren't sponsored by companies; they're literal parts of them and so it's not like they represent towns and can seek additional sponsorship, and that limits their appeal and growth potential. They even contract players as though it's still the amateur days. I remember listening to Craig Wing describe how under his contract with NTT he was technically just a really highly paid clerk for the company and was required to come in and shuffle papers a day a week lol.

What's interesting is that soccer was set up the same way until the '80s and was actually a lesser known and played sport up to that point (baseball is still the biggest though), but they reformed their structure and disentangled their teams from the big zaibatsu and made them standalone entities. Since then they've shot way ahead of Union as a result.

With all that said, I have wondered if there's an opportunity in Japan. I'd love to see the NRL plant some seeds by just recruiting a couple promising players from their domestic competition. It'd become a news item and spread a bit of awareness about the NRL.

That is a bizarre system they have in Japanese rugby.

 

[Perth Red]

Our recruitment is terrible, in that sense. That’s why I don’t buy the insufficient talent for expansion argument, until we’re raiding the Union stocks of countries like South Africa, Japan, Argentina etc, you can’t say there isn’t enough talent for expansion, we’re just not looking hard enough. Especially when it comes to South Africa, there’s a stack of decent players that would probably make better League than Union players stuck in lower leagues there that would relish the chance to come and live in Australia and earn some Australian dollars.

No to mention PNG, a whole country playing RL and how many first graders do we have from PNG? Like you said talent spotting and development is very small minded at the moment. There's plenty of talent out there for 4 teams if we develop the systems.

 

[The Great Dane]

No to mention PNG, a whole country playing RL and how many first graders do we have from PNG? Like you said talent spotting and development is very small minded at the moment. There's plenty of talent out there for 4 teams if we develop the systems.

It's because we're the last sport on the planet where basically all junior development and scouting is done internally by the pro-clubs.

I mean look at the AFL, they scout all over the world and regularly hold combines overseas, and they come back with players from all over the place. With the popularity of rugby world wide you'd think that if the NRL put in half the effort that the AFL does that they'd have heaps of success.

It's not just the obvious places either, I'd bet that there're a bunch of e.g. Georgian rugby players just looking for any opportunity to have a crack at going pro that have been overlooked by the RU establishment.

 

[greenBV4]

It's because we're the last sport on the planet where basically all junior development and scouting is done internally by the pro-clubs.

I mean look at the AFL, they scout all over the world and regularly hold combines overseas, and they come back with players from all over the place. With the popularity of rugby world wide you'd think that if the NRL put in half the effort that the AFL does that they'd have heaps of success.

It's not just the obvious places either, I'd bet that there're a bunch of e.g. Georgian rugby players just looking for any opportunity to have a crack at going pro that have been overlooked by the RU establishment.

Imagine the potential talent that could be picked up if the NRL ran a yearly European combine?
Any players picked up by the NRL could be sent to a draft, so you'd have a hybrid system with clubs scouting/developing talent, as well as picking up the NRL scouted talent through a draft system

You could also run a yearly combine for each continent, and well as even country area's of Australia

 

[Perth Red]

Having played RL&AF, US college wide receivers and cornerbacks would be where I would be looking for backline talent!

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

It's because we're the last sport on the planet where basically all junior development and scouting is done internally by the pro-clubs.

I mean look at the AFL, they scout all over the world and regularly hold combines overseas, and they come back with players from all over the place. With the popularity of rugby world wide you'd think that if the NRL put in half the effort that the AFL does that they'd have heaps of success.

It's not just the obvious places either, I'd bet that there're a bunch of e.g. Georgian rugby players just looking for any opportunity to have a crack at going pro that have been overlooked by the RU establishment.

Scouting talent from countries where RU is strong could backfire on us. It would be costly and as soon as they reach stardom the RU clubs in Europe will offer them a big pay day that they will take. It's happened with God knows how many Fijians that were brought into the NRL and even some South Africans.

 

[T-Boon]

League should totally try to win Twiggy over. If he likes Rugby he would love RL. It should be the new mission after Apollo for Vlandy, Pearce and the crew.

 

[reanimate]

Scouting talent from countries where RU is strong could backfire on us. It would be costly and as soon as they reach stardom the RU clubs in Europe will offer them a big pay day that they will take. It's happened with God knows how many Fijians that were brought into the NRL and even some South Africans.

That already happens, both with our RU converts and with players who have played RL their whole life. For example, Sonny Bill Williams, Ben Teo, Semi Radradra have all gone and played RU overseas recently. Some end up coming back, like Sonny Bill and Ben Teo, others leave forever, but they get replaced, e.g. Parra have Sivo now and they're doing just fine. The idea would be you keep scouting for players on the cheap, you let go the ones who start asking for European RU money and you replace them with new blood.

 

[reanimate]

Having played RL&AF, US college wide receivers and cornerbacks would be where I would be looking for backline talent!

That'd be another good source of talent. A lot of Americans who don't make the cut with college, NFL or CFL teams don't have many other options, most end up just not playing football anymore. Some of them would jump at the chance of getting paid to play.

 

[The Great Dane]

Scouting talent from countries where RU is strong could backfire on us. It would be costly and as soon as they reach stardom the RU clubs in Europe will offer them a big pay day that they will take. It's happened with God knows how many Fijians that were brought into the NRL and even some South Africans.

LOL, players are employees not slaves!

I don't see how this is any different to what happens now when a player switches codes or professions. If they want to go home or ply their trade somewhere else then good luck to them, we do what we always do when that happens and move on to someone else.

 

[The Great Dane]

Imagine the potential talent that could be picked up if the NRL ran a yearly European combine?
Any players picked up by the NRL could be sent to a draft, so you'd have a hybrid system with clubs scouting/developing talent, as well as picking up the NRL scouted talent through a draft system

You could also run a yearly combine for each continent, and well as even country area's of Australia

You wouldn't even need to set up a draft system if you didn't want too. You could just allow the clubs to offer the attendees of the combines contracts.