USA - General Question

[BatiFan]

I have been watching a lot of American Football on FOX lately, both NFL and College leagues and gosh is there some real athletes. The issue of rugby league trying to recruit AF players from College ball once they finish their studies and dont make the NFL ranks seems like a good one, but what would the logistics of getting some of these players???

For instance a few years ago we saw the emergence of Nate Smith who was a College Football place kicker. He turned out to be a real star in rugby league. Imagine if we actually had a running back, wide recivier or line backer take up our great game. WOW!!!

So the question is one of - should the AMNRL look to recruit certain players from the College ranks in a hope of turning them into league players? Or should the AMNRL look to develop from the very bottom and get young kids playing rugby league?

I would personally love to see a combination of both, however, both have problems (or should I say obstacles) to overcome. For instance, if the AMNRL were to go and recruit talented College Footballers once they are finished college, they might be outstanding athletes, yet would be in the early to mid twenties when they actually finish and have to learn all the finer points and skill sof our games before actually becoming any real standard of rugby league player. You can find players in Australia, NZ or England who play professionally that have played RL all their lives and they still cant do certain basic skill components. So would we be asking too much from such College recruits to realistically think they would become real stars in rugby league?

On the issue of youth development now and we all agree that this is imperetive that for the game to prosper it needs to be strong at the grassroots level. The issue facing the AMNRL in this regard is the fact that American children grow up watching all the big sports of Baseball, Amercian Football, Basketball, Hockey, Soccer etc. so any development of the code would have to compete with all these other sports. The thing with these other sports is the fact that they all have massive financial backing that allows development of their sports to go to another level beyond which rugby league could even begin to fathom some decades into the future.

I guess the main reason for this post is to gather some feedback from our American posters on ways in which the game should look to move forward in the USA. I watched a piece on TV the other day about the Belguim RU Federation and the success they are having at present and one quote really stuck. The Spokesman said "to ensure that rugby in Belguim continues to thrive, we need to ensure a strong national team, for which our junior players can aspire to be one day" (or words to that effect). So with the USA Tomahawks doing such a great job against the World Champion Australian team last year, I think this motto should echo around AMNRL circles.

 

[Big Bunny]

Football in the US seems like a sport that whilst enjoyed by the masses as entertainment, the participation after high school comes down to either pure talent or the fact that it opens doors via scholarships and a good education. There doesn't appear to be much of an amateur scene, with an official body not even operating until 2002, which would point to there being a lack of interest. I find this rather strange, almost unbelievable considering how important a grass roots scene is to any sport. College sport is an excellent resource for rugby league to tap, considering the vast majority of athletes are spat out before they turn 25. But if those athletes aren't keen to go out and form amateur clubs relating to their primary sport, then it's always going to be an uphill task to get them to take up an alien code instead. There needs to be an incentive and for the majority I can only see money and/or regular rep honours fitting that requirement.

 

[Razor]

For instance a few years ago we saw the emergence of Nate Smith who was a College Football place kicker. He turned out to be a real star in rugby league. Imagine if we actually had a running back, wide recivier or line backer take up our great game. WOW!!!

The reason Nate Smith wasn't great at League was because he wasn't a good footballer. Remember he wasn't good enough to play NFL. Take the star NFL players and a fair few (QBs, HBs, WRs especially) will be good at League.

 

[BatiFan]

I wasnt being sarcastic, I actually thought Nate Smith was a really good league player and if he had of stuck with league could well be playing National League level in the UK easily, if not Super League or NRL.

 

[carlnz]

Does he not play league no more? Pitty USA played no Internationals this year against top nations

 

[Screech]

Nate Smith was highly over rated. He had alot of people pushing his barrow for him and in return threw the towel in. He had that typical American athlete attitude "Im better than anyone, I should be number 1, who is Anthony Minichello, I have played League for 3 months how come Joey Johns is on more than me.........?" Best American player.....Ian Blake daylight 2nd.

 

[sixtynine]

Nate smith was very overrated IMO

 

[Big Bunny]

Wasn't Smith just a goal kicker in college? I thought he did ok, but I wasn't exactly impressed by the guy.

It's hard to tell what kind of player in the NFL would translate to RL well based on their position alone. A cornerback might have the pace, sure hands and possibly the raw defensive skill, but will the guy have the endurance and ability to not only attack, but look to a lateral pass or kick in the same play? What about a quarterback, a man who would in theory have the right mind for playing in the halves, but would that really be any help if the bugger couldn't tackle? It's all up to the individual, not the position.

If I was to scout the NFL or anywhere else for potential recruits I'd go for guys who have played well in defense, and more than likely having slimmed down to play offense and have pace and sure hands. Every bloke so far tried in the NSW/ARL/NRL from the US has been at best a mild flop, including Manfred Moore because they were recruited based on their ability to attack and on their speed, when the success of a team over a full season is built upon a platform of strong defense under sustained pressure. The only bloke who might not have fit that stereotype is Al Kirkland, but he only lasted one season at Parra anyway. The only American that I can think of that may have been a true success is the fellow who played in the leagues early days in the UK (name having escaped me).

 

[roopy]

Here is a picture of Nate Smith at the Orara Valley 7s last year (the guy with the ball).

If you look at the picture, he is a very fit looking winger weighing about 90kg I'd say.

I also saw him in his first ever game of League against Wyong on the 2003 US tour. At that time he was listed as 110kg and played prop.

At the Orara Valley 7s I asked him if he was going to play in England, and he gave a non-commital answer like 'wait and see' or something.

Basically, he went back to school to do his masters after that and hasn't played since (I think).

He put in the time and effort, and as a guy in his early 20s he had a lot of improvement in him yet, but our game didn't give him the opportunity to earn a living, so he went back to school.

That is the problem with attracting any other players from american football - we can't give them a chance to make a living at present.

 

[Sun_Down]

Hmmm I thought he turned down the opportunity to pursue a NY Giants career? Dunno.

I thought his try was awesom V Australia last year...Werent a few NRL clubs talking to him at one stage, or QLD cup sides..I dunno. I thought he was a great athlete though...He plays for the Bulls yer?

 

[Tomahawk]

BatiFan;

As for your question the AMNRL has been working on getting former college football players. However, there are several problems that you do not see and is hard for people to understand.

#1 Even know Rugby League and American Football both have similar aspects in both games, they are two different monsters. As similar they can be they can be completely opposite.

#2 Rugby League is viewed as a very brutal sport in the states, and people think you get injured easily.

#3 After someone has played football at the college level they really do not want to play another contact sport.

#4 Many of these college football players believe they have a change of making the professional level, and keep a hold of that hope. So they do not play Rugby League because they are afraid of getting injured. This going back to reason #2.

As for the AMNRL recruiting these people, yes it is going on. Philadelphia, Media, and other teams in the league have guys who played college football. As for Glen Mills every player but maybe 5 played college football.

The New York Knights and New Jersey Sharks both have been working with Dave Nui developing kids clinics. The youth development is developing but very slowly.

Finally onto Nate Smith, he is just an all around athlete. Nate could have made the pro’s, but chose not to. Presently, Nate is back in college getting his masters degree. Nate is only 21 – 23 years old. Nate also broke all the record set by Philadelphia Eagles kicker David Ackers at Louisville.

 

[eelandia]

I know the Americans place alot of emphasis on College, but surely there are many good players / athletes that don't go through the college system? I mean, not everyone would want to or have the means to go to college and although the 'best' players are placed on scholarships, there would be many more out there learning to become mechanics, carpenters, etc that don't go anywhere near the college scene.

These are the ones that should be looked at imo as I agree the athletes playing American Football are incredible and should be tapped into.

 

[Tomahawk]

One reason the Glen Mills Bulls have been so successful, and have won the title for 6 years, is because most of their players were college athletes. However, we have at least 3 employees who have played in the NFL, and do not play rugby.

Another huge problem we have to deal with is there is no assentives for playing. What is in it for the player? Nothing really. Then are season is during the summer, and most of the matches are on Saturdays. Then on top of that everyone has full time jobs, and it is hard for them to practice.

As for the past two years has seen the most number of players that did not go to college, but did play high sports.

 

[The Tank]

One of the British rugby league magazines said he was close to signing with a Super League club just after the Australia-USA match, but nothing happened.

I do remember reading on here that whilst he went back to school, he is still available for USA test matches. Not sure if it's true though.

 

[***MH***]

In reference to Referees in America, do they run their own accreditation scheme or do they model of Australia's NRAS?

 

[sooperdooper]

simple answer
waste of time

 

[slow frontrower]

The reason Nate Smith wasn't great at League was because he wasn't a good footballer. Remember he wasn't good enough to play NFL. Take the star NFL players and a fair few (QBs, HBs, WRs especially) will be good at League.

Bro don't make things up, like you have any idea about the ability of Nate Smith to play in the NFL.

Nate Smith flat out told the NY Giants he no interest in being a kicker. He was going to be a 3rd or 4rd round draft pick. At that time he was training with Para trying to learn how to play league.

He hated being a kicker cause they are not real althletes, and Nate Smith is. He Ran the 40 yard dash at the NFL combine in 4.3. For the those of you who know who Michael Vick is (Atlanta Falcons QB) he ran the 40 in 4.15(Michael Vick is one of the fastest players in the NFL). He played reciever in college and got hurt so was only allowed to Kick by the coaching staff.

Nate Smith is not cocky just a shy guy from sticks as we call in America or as you would call in OZ "the bush."

As for Contracts...., nothing materialized for him. He was keen as mustard to play in the UK. He got hurt badly when we went on tour to OZ last year and only played in the 7's tourny, and 5 min against Tweed heads. (which he scored a 90m intertcept) so no one even got a look at him.

 

[Cavaliere]

Youth programs would do alot for the game here in the US.It would probably have to be flag rugby though.Most people here would think the game is too rough, and the lack of padding will scare most parents.
Another problem is getting exposure to the game.The only League on TV here is Fox Soccer channel.They replay 1 NRL game every week @ 2:00 AM.

 

[phat cat]

There are alot of issues about developement here in the states. first off rugby union is the fastest growing highschool sport in the Country. For those of us who think any rugby is better than no rugby that is GREAT!

As for recruiting college atheletes. Playing a sport in college is a JOB especially football (at any level). by the time many of these guys get out of college they are so burnt out that they have no desire to learn a new game, especially one that does not offer any incentive. Also many of them are looking to start careers and families by the time they are done with school. So packing your bags for OZ or the UK is out of the question for most of these guys.
As for Nate Smith, He is a good player that has fallen victim to injury and circumstance. It is a huge chance for him to take to leave the states and pursue a career in league. as for his playing ability... how many tries have any of you scored against the Kangaroos?

 

[Tomahawk]

Slower front rower;

Your quote or Nate quote it totally off target.

"He hated being a kicker cause they are not real athletes, and Nate Smith is."

Recently an ESPN commentator and Jeff Feeley (Kicker for the N.Y. Giants) just debated this very issue on ESPN. I would say every person from the kicker to the star running back is an athlete. If they (kickers) were not athletes they would not be playing on that level. Anyone who says that kickers are not athletes are just plain ignorant to the sport of football.

Phat cat you said;

"as for his playing ability... how many tries have any of you scored against the Kangaroos?"

I agree with you 100% in Nate Smith is a great athlete and a very solid and good Rugby League player, then and still now. However we both know that the Australians were not playing up to their standard when the US scored all its points.