Waiting....Waiting....Waiting

[mxlegend99]

go watch the reply again mate, he was one of our best in a well beaten and far out classed team. he was far from average, the suggestion of that is proof you dont know squat about league

Stapleton against the Doggies:
15 runs @ 146 metres
17 tackles
1 offload

Tongue Against the Doggies:
7 runs @ 48 metres
1 linebreak
47 tackles
2 offloads

Both games within 1 week of each other. While Tongue has great defense... his attack wasn't that great.

Although i think Joel Clinton does more then Stapleton and was unlucky not to get in. But given he wasn't playing the round before his team was selected, he obviously would've had less chance. Likewise, Tongue didn't play his best match the round before selection, and his chances also decreased.

Waterhouse had a better game in Round 26 against the Dogs then Tongue did in Week 1 finals against them also. Your most recent performance will carry the most weight. And unless we're looking to go for a strong defense side, other locks will get a look in before Tongue. The fact Hayne and Merritt made it suggest that the criteria is attacking skills, not defensive skills. I can name wingers that are far better defensively then both and weren't selected. :crazy:

 

[Raider_69]

Who are these locks who are in great form??

O'donnell: Ordinary since origin.
Simpson: Backrower, doesn't have the size your looking for anyway.
Carroll: Playing ok, but i think his australian days are over.
Ryan: Isn't playing lock anyway, is a second rower, has been good though and deserves to be picked there.
Kennedy: Awesome, but hanging up the boots.
Gallen: Sharks best player, has problems with his hands and hasnt been as good as he was before origin. Form nosedive.
Johnson: Same size as tounge, doesnt work as hard in defence and doesnt have as much spark in attack.

Who are these great lock options, i mean locks.

well said.
No one is suggesting tongue should play for tri nations team (whilst ive said if he had of been picked he would let anyone down), but to expect the form avilable lock of the competition to be picked in the train on squad is a gimmie

 

[GC_Gladiator]

Mx.. you have to remember that this saturdays game was on a heavy track. Also, remember that stapleton is a prop and tongue is a lock. Tongue makes plenty of metres in attack, and his line breaks and try stats this season back that up.

 

[mxlegend99]

Why the hell do Raiders supporters always bitch.

Tongue is a great defensive lock. No one is arguing that. Obviously the team has picked it's form first and foremost on attacking and/or experience.

I'm sure Tongue would do a more then adequate job at lock. But other players are better in attack and have experience.

Saying that someone is robbed is just biased. I think that some players were unlucky not to make, while others were lucky to make it. But they are picking players that best fit their criteria. It does nothing to benefit Australia by selecting the second best player if the best is an option.

 

[Raider_69]

But it makes sense to pick the 2nd best if the best isnt avalible
as is the situation with the lock position

Best - Kennedy: Retired/Retiring
2nd Best - TONGUE

 

[GC_Gladiator]

If you've watched many raiders games this season you'd notice that tongue provides a heap of spark in attack. I think the selectors are wrong in going for a big back row. They did that last tri nations, it really paid dividends. One thing you must understand though is that Tongue deserved the chance to show, in even if it was just the prime ministers team, that he can handle the pressure of playing for an Australian team. The fact that there werent any better options as locks really is a kick in the teeth for him, and of course raiders supporters who like to see there players earn recognition. We've all heard in the past of players leaving there current teams searching for rep honours, and bar the two selections in the Qld team this season the canberra team has had little to cheer about in the last few seasons when it comes to rep season.

 

[DeeGan]

Nathan Merritt was 'rewarded' with a spot in the train on squad and he is a lot further back to getting a rep jersey for mine than Alan Tounge. I think Tounge should of at least made the train on squad for '06.

 

[Nutzcraw]

Should he play for Australia??? - NO

Should he have been recognised for his year with selection in the train on squad??? - YES

 

[Raider_69]

Should he play for Australia??? - NO

Should he have been recognised for his year with selection in the train on squad??? - YES

perfectly summed up
he's been robbed of recognition for the great season he's had
thankfully he knows the raiders fans dont under estimate all he has done for us.

 

[borat]

:lol:
your an idiot, drag a statement made 18 months back up to justify this situation, a statement Elliott himself has retracted and then some since that time.

I'm the idiot? You are a clown. There was a whole artlicle in SMH on the weekend about what a turn around in his game there has been since Elliott told him he wasn't needed which he admitted himself. All I am saying that he was not playing as good last year as this year.

 

[mxlegend99]

Mx.. you have to remember that this saturdays game was on a heavy track. Also, remember that stapleton is a prop and tongue is a lock. Tongue makes plenty of metres in attack, and his line breaks and try stats this season back that up.

Then compare him to Waterhouse (who is in average form this year):
Trent Waterhouse
12 runs @ 78 metres
1 linebreak
25 tackles

I'm not a fan of Waterhouse at all. But he did have a better attacking game then Tongue. Sure, Tongue made a ton of tackles. But he done less in attack then Waterhouse who nearly nobody hear rates at all. Then take into account that his attack looked weak compared to our Kiwi forwards against the exact same team on the exact same day... it becomes obvious that neither Tongue nor Waterhouse are of the same attacking calibre that the Kiwi's are. Look at what the Kiwi forwards for Penrith did in Round 26 (against the Doggies aswell):

Tony Puletua
15 runs @ 136 metres
3 linebreaks
16 tackles
5 offloads
1 try

Frank Pritchard
12 runs @ 153 metres
1 linebreak
15 tackles
2 offloads

Why would Australia settle for Tongue in attack when the NZ team has 2 guys that have attack like that in their forwards? Throw in all the big hard hitting Warriors players, Cayless etc. and Tongue looks a little out of place in that sort of game.

Now i don't think that Waterhouse is a great lock, but he does pick up his game for big matches. Tongue done the opposite. He had a chance to prove himself against the Doggies, but his team and him were unable to dominate.

Don't get me wrong. I'd choose Tongue over Waterhouse for Panthers anyday. Waterhouse is a bit hot and cold of a player. He's put in a few brilliant games and a few tragic games... ontop of missing half the season. But when you look at the guys the team will be facing... you can't honestly expect that Tongue will have something to offer in attack against a Kiwi forward pack?

 

[Raider_69]

mxlegend99 you've done a fine job in justifying why tongue SHOULD be there, as i have a feeling that tongue's defencive capabilities could come in handy if the back row of the kiwi's is a potent in attack as you suggest ;-)


best offence is a good defence, defence wins matches, name your cliche

 

[borat]

Nathan Merritt was 'rewarded' with a spot in the train on squad and he is a lot further back to getting a rep jersey for mine than Alan Tounge. I think Tounge should of at least made the train on squad for '06.

If Grothe gets suspended as expected I beleive either hayne or Merritt will play in the PM game. Amos Roberts is the only other winger in the squad so far and out of the 4 teams playing this weekend I can't see any of the wingers making the train on squad. Maybe if the Dragons or brisbane drop out a centre might be selected but other than that who do you think will play on the wing in the PMXIII game?

 

[GC_Gladiator]

Yeah, the raiders game though on saturday night, was pouring with rain. The ground would have been heavy.. and there would definately have been less side to side movement then the panfers against the dogs.

It was all one up the ruck. Tongue is great when given a little room to move. You then have to factor in possession. The raiders completions were shocking on saturday night, you dont get much ball when your teammates are fumbling alot of ball. Although his great in defence, tongue is also great at finding holes and scoring meat pies. 9 breaks for the season and 11 tries. Not bad for the nrl's leading tackler.

 

[aussies1st]

Tongue has the most tries by a forward, quite a few were from nicely placed kick and chase. Thats what he can add in attack. Hes no hitup machine but thats what the other forwards are for.

 

[GC_Gladiator]

And the prime ministers game usually has a few younger players through there. Some maybe some younger players will fill out the backline, there are no centres there yet either.

 

[Raider_69]

beaten in his position for dally m honours, only by one of the modern day greatss in Ben Kennedy... not bad for just a tackler aye

 

[borat]

And the prime ministers game usually has a few younger players through there. Some maybe some younger players will fill out the backline, there are no centres there yet either.

The team comes from the train on squad, thats a fact. Colin Love announced that when they released the first lot of players.

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=152988

So who then is going to play on the wing if not Merritt or Hayne?

All this talk about who should and shouldn't be selected in the squad, you still got to pick a team.

 

[DeeGan]

If Grothe gets suspended as expected I beleive either hayne or Merritt will play in the PM game. Amos Roberts is the only other winger in the squad so far and out of the 4 teams playing this weekend I can't see any of the wingers making the train on squad. Maybe if the Dragons or brisbane drop out a centre might be selected but other than that who do you think will play on the wing in the PMXIII game?

I think Jarryd Hayne, despite being less experienced, is a better all round player than Merritt and definately one with better long term rep potential. When Grothe is suspended, I would like to think the selectors will stray from the consertative approach and blood the 18 y.o. rookie.

The selectors will select Matt King on one wing, Greg Inglis is also an option on the other wing if he is not selected at fullback. I personally would look at Hazem El Masri who consistently plays at a high level with little reward at rep time and outside of that Brent Tate is another who can move to the wing and has done so with success in the past.

I am not sure on what the criteria is for selection come the PMXIII game though Jarryd Hayne has to be a certainty now he is not playing in the finals.

 

[borat]

Nathan Merritt was 'rewarded' with a spot in the train on squad and he is a lot further back to getting a rep jersey for mine than Alan Tounge. I think Tounge should of at least made the train on squad for '06.

I think Jarryd Hayne, despite being less experienced, is a better all round player than Merritt and definately one with better long term rep potential. When Grothe is suspended, I would like to think the selectors will stray from the consertative approach and blood the 18 y.o. rookie.

First you say Merritt is no chance and then you agree that it is between Merritt and Hayne. With the Storm & Dogs in the prelim finals you can be sure that Inglis, King & El Masri won't play in the PM game.

Nathan Merritt is well in the mix for a PM Aust jersey. Tongue is not, that is the difference.