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Warren Ryan exposes Sharks 3rd position vulnerability

blacktip-reefy

Immortal
Messages
34,079
Just like how he was right with Kimmorley, he's right about this too.

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Coaching guru Warren Ryan has attacked the NRL's McIntyre finals system as flawed with top four sides facing the prospect of being `punished' for opening week victories.

Cronulla and the Sydney Roosters are in biggest danger of being exposed by the finals format, which sees qualifying finals between the top four sides up against the bottom four this weekend.

"There are some really bad anomalies that can occur, when you can get two top four sides playing against each other in a sudden death encounter in the second week of the finals," said Ryan, a longtime opponent of the McIntyre system.

"The McIntyre system discards rankings after week one - all that you've played for all year long in terms of rankings is discarded once the first week is over."

Despite finishing the regular season tied on 38 competition points with minor premiers Melbourne and Manly, the Sharks are the most vulnerable of the top four sides in the opening week.

And worse still, the NRL says it is reluctant to tamper with a finals format which has come under heavy public scrutiny.

There have been calls for the NRL to adopt the system used by the AFL in which the top four and bottom four are split up on the opening weekend of the finals.

Ryan has also come up with his own formula, which he has forwarded to NRL chief operating officer Graham Annesley, which would actually see an extra game played in the second week.

Ryan is part of the committee which meets to discuss prospective rule changes at the end of every NRL season, but the man who guided Canterbury to premiership success in 1984 and 1985 said alternative finals systems were never given an airing.

"I've never spoken about it at the rules committee meeting - they're too busy worrying about wrestling and grappling," Ryan said.

"I've been in there and seen (chief operating officer Graham) Annesley, he's got a copy of (my system) in his file somewhere.

"They're very reactive rugby league, they only react when something really blows up in their face."

Annesley claimed the finals system was reviewed on an annual basis but denied there was a push to have it changed.

"It gets approved every year, but there's been absolutely no move to change the format," Annesley said.

"The McIntyre system has served the NRL well."

Not only do Cronulla face the remote prospect of being bundled out in the first week of the finals - should the bottom four sides all win - they could also could be `punished' if all results go according to plan in week one.

Should the top four all win this weekend, Cronulla would be rewarded for beating sixth-placed Canberra by facing up against Brisbane in a knockout match in week two.

The Roosters, who finished the regular season in fourth spot six points behind the top three, would get the seemingly easier draw against the Raiders.

Should Brisbane upset the Roosters, Cronulla would get the Roosters in week two, with Brisbane facing Canberra.

If the only upset this weekend was St George Illawarra beating Manly, the Roosters would be `rewarded' for winning in week one with a second week match against the Sea Eagles.

Sharks halfback Brett Kimmorley claimed he hadn't looked too far into the permutations of how Cronulla's finals schedule could pan out.

"You've just got to look at it that you've got to win," Kimmorley said.
 

Generalzod

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But if either Melbourne or Manly lose, Cronulla win against the Raiders we get the week off...
 
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PJ

First Grade
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5,980
Basically if Cronulla can't beat a depleted Canberra at their home ground then they probably don't deserve to be playing too big a part in the finals.
 

blacktip-reefy

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34,079
Its the reward that is the issue PJ. If the system goes according to plan, our reward for coming 3rd & winning the first semi is playing the team that came 5th.
The team below us play the team that came 6th & who we beat the week before.
 

Ausguy

Coach
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14,887
its not so much if we lose to the raiders, he is raising the point that if we win.... we might as well have lost... i mean if the broncos win we get rewarded with playing them... whilst the roosters get to play the raiders after losing to the broncos... i agree it is a flawed system but its wat we got right now so we have to deal with ... go the dragons cos i dont think the warriors can beat melbourne...
 

PJ

First Grade
Messages
5,980
Its the reward that is the issue PJ. If the system goes according to plan, our reward for coming 3rd & winning the first semi is playing the team that came 5th.
The team below us play the team that came 6th & who we beat the week before.

I think the AFL has a better and fairer system (but that the top 5 system is the best as it makes it a real achievement to qualify rather than just being in the top 50%) but the simple fact is that with injuries/suspensions/players unavailable for rep duties it will always be that teams will possiby/probably have easier runs than those who finished the regular season above them.

If they are good enough it won't matter though. Unless they make or win the GF no one will remember where they actually finished.

Remember we have finished the regular season in first place and didn't make the GF, was that the systems fault as well.
 

PJ

First Grade
Messages
5,980
its not so much if we lose to the raiders, he is raising the point that if we win.... we might as well have lost... i mean if the broncos win we get rewarded with playing them... whilst the roosters get to play the raiders after losing to the broncos... i agree it is a flawed system but its wat we got right now so we have to deal with ... go the dragons cos i dont think the warriors can beat melbourne...

If we lose to a team placed 6th, playing at our home ground, we probably won't be going too far anyway. As Kimmorley says if we keep winning it doesn't matter.

The flip side is if we win and the others lose we get a week off and they can bash the tripe out of each other for another week.
 

ollie515

Juniors
Messages
155
Should the top four all win this weekend, Cronulla would be rewarded for beating sixth-placed Canberra by facing up against Brisbane in a knockout match in week two.

The Roosters, who finished the regular season in fourth spot six points behind the top three, would get the seemingly easier draw against the Raiders.

Now I dont like the McIntyre system but seriously what would he have us do?

Play the Raiders at Shark Park again while the Roosters play the Broncos again?? - Now that is stupid
 

Squae

Juniors
Messages
669
I reckon our draw this year looks AWESOME , if the current favourites win (being Brisbane beat Rorters!!!!!)

It means, if we beat Canberra this week we play the rorters next week, which may well be the 2 weakest teams in the top 8 atm, (away from home anyway!)

Do people not agree?
 

spider

Coach
Messages
15,841
just beat who ever you face each week i think

cant see the positive in looking to face a so called 'weaker' or preferred team in semi final football
 

gunnamatta bay

Referee
Messages
21,084
Basically if Cronulla can't beat a depleted Canberra at their home ground then they probably don't deserve to be playing too big a part in the finals.
On the nrl teams show last night they had a list of 16 players out for injuries etc (tod carney) so never a truer word said.
 

coolumsharkie

Referee
Messages
27,114
I reckon our draw this year looks AWESOME , if the current favourites win (being Brisbane beat Rorters!!!!!)

It means, if we beat Canberra this week we play the rorters next week, which may well be the 2 weakest teams in the top 8 atm, (away from home anyway!)

Do people not agree?


Yep, I reckon the Wok's got it wrong there, if we beat Canberra and the Bronco's beat the Rorters we play the rorters the following week. I think :sarcasm:
 

The Dodger

First Grade
Messages
6,065
i like the afl system alot better, but it wouldnt suit us any better than what we have atm.


if we go by the afl system, we would be playing manly this weekend, if we win, we go straight into the semi final,if we lose, we play the winner between stgeorge and canberra.

it would be a little more entertaining to watch.
there isnt much difference but the current system does suit us alot better.
 

blacktip-reefy

Immortal
Messages
34,079
No he has it right. The rorters are looking menacing I reckon with the loss of the out of enthusiasm mason. Nuasafala will be in & I think a paea will be back.
Broncos look sketchy to me. Against Newcastle they looked good but the knights were very flat & were sore & sorry from melbourne. Lockyer is still not right, they aren't settled in the forwards.
I would not be surprised to see them go out the back door pretty quickly.
 
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PHaTMaN

Juniors
Messages
2,411
Either way if we beat raiders we play broncos or roosters and the winner of thier game plays the raiders.

I would rather be playing the raiders in the 2nd week of the finals than the first. There is no reward for finishing 3rd.
 
Messages
21,890
f**k rewards.

just f**king win. Beat the raiders, Chooks. Manly. GF.

or..

win. Manly lose..week ff..Manly lose again st george win again...play the roosters or brisbane.
 

Since 73

First Grade
Messages
7,428
The system needs changing.
Semi finals are the culmination of a tough year and should be reserved for the best teams.

If it must be 8 teams to raise revenue, then...
I like the AFL system where the cream play amongst themselves in the first week and no one can be punted in that first week,
and
the other 4 teams play cut-throat football.

We came equal first - why are we in a position where our season can end on saturday night.
Is that good for the game?

The league will write it up as a 'pressure game' - and so it should be as it's semi finals - but the top 4 teams have earned a 'life'.
 

brokendigit

Juniors
Messages
851
The McIntyre system has it's floors, sure.
So does the AFL system, & so would Wok's if it were ever put in place.

There is no "perfect" semi final system, unless you want a first past the post system, but you'd then have to play a genuinely "even" home & away season.

No system will ever be without it's quirks - just get on with what we've got.
The grass isn't always greener...
Except at Jubilee.
 

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