WCW on WWE Network

[Valheru]

Watched GAB 91 and Halloween Havoc 91 recently, train wrecks the pair of them. This was at the exact time that Ric Flair defected to the WWF with the title belt so WCW was in damage control at this point and completely lacked direction.

Both shows have 2 of the worst openers you are ever likely to see. In the case of the bash, they had a tag scaffold match where the scaffold was too thin for them to do anything and at Havoc they had that silly chamber of horrors match where there were 2 teams of 4 in a cage and the objective was to get someone in an electric chair and electrocute them. Minus stars the pair of them.

On the flip side I am pleasantly surprised with the PPV quality from WWF in 1991. I had seen these shows in my youth but didn't remember too much from them and WWF 1991 isn't spoken about too often as quality programming but royal rumble was a very good show and I would say mania and summerslam were both good shows with the warrior/savage retirement match and Hart/Perfect IC title match being key highlights.

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

Not WCW, but certainly network related. I'm deeeeep into 1998 now, just got done watching KOTR, holy hell that HITC match still blows me away with its level of brutality. Obviously the two falls are well documented, but the thumbtacks spot and some of those chair shots Foley copped were f**king brutal.

Other than that, really enjoyed Kaientai's match with Taka and the hEadbangers, and all four Japanese guys got very good reactions (much better than I remember being). Shamrock is losing overness quick...Owen in the Nation is odd and doesnt work. The Rock is copping mega heat, and Triple H isn't as over as the Outlaws. Kane is probably my favorite in this period right now, Between the Rumble and here, everything he's done has been money, and Paul Bearer is f**king magic on that mic.

I love watching this time period, for both companies. Reminds me how good wrestling can be.

 

[Shaun Hewitt]

Not WCW, but certainly network related. I'm deeeeep into 1998 now, just got done watching KOTR, holy hell that HITC match still blows me away with its level of brutality. Obviously the two falls are well documented, but the thumbtacks spot and some of those chair shots Foley copped were f**king brutal.

Other than that, really enjoyed Kaientai's match with Taka and the hEadbangers, and all four Japanese guys got very good reactions (much better than I remember being). Shamrock is losing overness quick...Owen in the Nation is odd and doesnt work. The Rock is copping mega heat, and Triple H isn't as over as the Outlaws. Kane is probably my favorite in this period right now, Between the Rumble and here, everything he's done has been money, and Paul Bearer is f**king magic on that mic.

I love watching this time period, for both companies. Reminds me how good wrestling can be.

Owen in the NOD really didn't feel right, even in 1998 for me.
1996 - 1999 easily my favorite time period in wrestling. Sure there is a tone of garbage, but there is so much gold there too

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

As a week to week serial, it shits all over anything else the industry has ever done. I think it was the perfect storm of the right characters, the right guys playing the characters, the right writers, the right situation, the fact that it was Clinton's carefree 90s, the advent of cable etc. Really was the perfect storm.

Inring wise it probably isnt as strong as today's, but it isn't as bad as some make it out to be. I watched a Bradshaw/Windham match a month ago that was very entertaining...not everything has to be a reverse double flip hurricaranna from the top rope onto the ring apron!

 

[bileduct]

So for some reason I just watched Starrcade 97, then Nitro from the following night which also required me to watch the premiere episode of Thunder over a week later.

So, Hogan vs Sting... like.... what the f**k? Was this WCW's attempt to emulate the Montreal Screwjob or something? The whole storyline was just utterly lame and unbelievable.

 

[Valheru]

So for some reason I just watched Starrcade 97, then Nitro from the following night which also required me to watch the premiere episode of Thunder over a week later.

So, Hogan vs Sting... like.... what the f**k? Was this WCW's attempt to emulate the Montreal Screwjob or something? The whole storyline was just utterly lame and unbelievable.

Yes that is exactly what their intent was but nick Patrick "forgot" to make a quick count so bret hart claiming sting was screwed and restarting the match was an epiic failure.

The whole thing ruined the payoff of the greatest storyline in the history of WCW.

They should have just had sting win cleanly and leave bret out of it but Hogan's ego got in the way.

 

[bileduct]

Yes that is exactly what their intent was but nick Patrick "forgot" to make a quick count so bret hart claiming sting was screwed and restarting the match was an epiic failure.

The whole thing ruined the payoff of the greatest storyline in the history of WCW.

They should have just had sting win cleanly and leave bret out of it but Hogan's ego got in the way.

Starrcade was confusing enough, but then you have the rematch the following night on Nitro where the show ends before the match does, and then the long wait to see the result of the match on Thunder a week and a half later? It was f**king annoying just binge watching through the episodes thanks to the WWE Network. I can only imagine how lame that must have been watching it in real time.

I read that some people considered this farce to be the beginning of the end for WCW. That's quite amusing when people also consider the Montreal Screwjob to be the beginning of WWE's rise to the top.

 

[Valheru]

Starrcade was confusing enough, but then you have the rematch the following night on Nitro where the show ends before the match does, and then the long wait to see the result of the match on Thunder a week and a half later? It was f**king annoying just binge watching through the episodes thanks to the WWE Network. I can only imagine how lame that must have been watching it in real time.

I read that some people considered this farce to be the beginning of the end for WCW. That's quite amusing when people also consider the Montreal Screwjob to be the beginning of WWE's rise to the top.

I've never actually seen the thunder following so will have to check it out but yes the whole thing was a complete mess.

The NWO jumped the shark in about March 97 but the sting storyline still had legs but they f**ked it up.

As for the start of the downfall of WCW, this is definitely one of the moments cited as is the finger poke of doom in 1999.

Those both lead to a downfall in viewership but the TBS sale to WB/time Warner was the real beginning of the end. From that moment the parent company did not want wrestling on the ledger and couldn't wait to sell the company. For all their faults, there were still other interested buyers for WCW in 2001 but without the TV contract it was worthless.

 

[Big Pete]

As the story goes, Sting showed up to Starrcade in questionable condition and Hogan got cold feet to put him over strong. At the last minute they decided to do their own screwjob so Hogan could save face and eventually go off and do his own thing with Savage.

Originally Sting/Hogan was set for Uncensored 1997, but it blew up so big, they kept it until Starrcade 1997 which ended up drawing the biggest buy-rate in company history.

Thunder was a nightmare Bischoff didn't want to deal with, but Turner management forced it on him and that additional three hours each week just added to the burn out.

 

[Valheru]

As the story goes, Sting showed up to Starrcade in questionable condition and Hogan got cold feet to put him over strong. At the last minute they decided to do their own screwjob so Hogan could save face and eventually go off and do his own thing with Savage.

Originally Sting/Hogan was set for Uncensored 1997, but it blew up so big, they kept it until Starrcade 1997 which ended up drawing the biggest buy-rate in company history.

Thunder was a nightmare Bischoff didn't want to deal with, but Turner management forced it on him and that additional three hours each week just added to the burn out.

Yeah the screw job angle was agreed to but Patrick didn't do the fast count. It has never been corroborated but one would have to think Hogan had something to do with that.

 

[Big Pete]

Yeah the screw job angle was agreed to but Patrick didn't do the fast count. It has never been corroborated but one would have to think Hogan had something to do with that.

There's always been a lot of emphasis on Patrick's role in the match, deservedly so, but the decision to get Bret involved in the first place is what sabotaged the match. It's clear Hogan didn't want to put Sting over and gave himself an out to protect his reputation.

The sad thing is, Sting didn't prove him wrong. When they actually went with him, he was a lousy champion. It actually worked in WCW's favour because Hogan got a do-over and did business the right way with Goldberg.

Well, mostly the right way. On paper, putting Goldberg over in the Georgia Dome was a smart call, but the lack of build under-cut Bill and his reign was still treated like a mid-card act. However, bileduct is a good 100 or so hours away from that point.

I'm not sure if you saw it bileduct, but in one of the early 97 Nitros, they had a WCW Championship match between Hogan and the Giant which took place during the ad-breaks of some Robin Hood TV show they were airing. WCW would constantly pull those shady rating stunts all the time and would straight up replay PPV matches only weeks (or in the case of Halloween Havoc '98, a day) after they happened.

 

[Valheru]

Yeah true, Bret should have never been involved at all and his arrival is one of the many story lines he mishandled.

On Hogan, I find it a minor miracle that he put Goldberg over (with no return job done either). Whoever convinced him to do that should become a salesman. I am currently watching 1997 WCW/WWF (up to May) and watched the previous years as well and I also have been reading the observers form the time and I never realised how much control Hogan exerted and his absolute refutation to make anyone look good. The compete burial of Flair in 1994 is a prime example so it will be interesting what the observer says about Hogan putting over Goldberg. Keep in mind, we are talking about the person who only put Luger over in 1997 with the understanding he would win the belt back 6 days later, who refused to put DDP over in 1997/1998 when he was the hottest commodity in WCW and spent 4 years trying to get the likes of Yokozuna and Ultimate warrior to WCW so he could get "his victories" back. He obviously succeeded with the latter.

Hogan put the Rock over at WMX8 but he obviously had way less control int he WWE at that point and it would have been part of his contract. Still, he won the title off HHH and only dropped it to Undertaker. The HBK stuff in 2005 is interesting as HBK famously oversold everything in protest of Hogan. In a recent interview he claims they were meant to trade victories (with HBK winning at summerslam) and then Hogan win the rubber match but Hogan refused on the day to do the job.

Back to Goldberg, him dropping the title to Nash and the subsequent finger poke of doom is another infamous incident. What do you think should have been done as far as Goldberg dropping the title? For me they should have actually put him over the top workers such as Nash, Luger, Sting and dropped it around GAB 1999 to an upper mid carder that would have rocketed that person to the main event. Chris Benoit probably being the best choice in that time frame.

 

[Big Pete]

At the risk of giving a cop-out answer, I would have kept Goldberg as champion as long as possible. Whether that means until the Great American Bash 1999, or until 2000, or until 2003 - if I was still drawing big houses with Goldberg I would have stuck with him.

Even when it came time to drop the championship, I'd be eager to put it on a heel and have Goldberg eventually chase them down. I would let that first loss sink in first, give the heel a good six month reign before Bill returns and you build the program from there.

Honestly, I don't think there was anyone on the roster when Bill won the title I'd have him lose it to. If Scott Steiner didn't keep suffering injuries, maybe he could have been that heel I was referring to, but he just never got that break.

As far as Hogan, I think it helped that he needed something to impress the Turner executives on the biggest Nitro of the year and since plans with the Warrior had initially fallen through, he decided to do the thing with Goldberg since it would go onto break another ratings record (which Hogan had previously set with Savage).

The thing was, putting the belt on Bill hardly changed anything. All the attention was still on Hogan and really Halloween Havoc 1998 would have still panned out the same, except Warrior/Hogan would have been for the WCW Championship and Goldberg/DDP would have been for the US Championship. Bret/Sting would have still been the horribly booked piece of business that it was.

Hogan put Bill over in that moment, but he never stepped aside and allow Bill to move the company forward. In a way he was right about Sting, because a better draw came along, but he still couldn't get out of his own way.

I've heard mixed things about Hogan/HBK. Granted, both guys are renown liars so who even knows where the truth lies, but Hogan claims he was supposed to put HBK over at the next PPV, but then Shawn came out and cut the promo after SummerSlam so he wiped his hands of the situation altogether.

 

[mozza91]

Just finished reading Nitro: The incredible rise and inevitable collapse of Ted Turner’s WCW.

Was a really good read and A thorough recap of what was happening on screen and behind the scenes.

Bischoff sounds incredibly driven but just too arrogant. The book also reinforced my view on Russo being a complete moron and charlatan.

 

[Styles clash]

WCW Monday Nitro September 4 1995

"Where the big boys play"

Ring is tiny and stiff. Flyin' Brian vs Jushin Thunder Liger looks rough. Shopping centre an interesting venue for episode 1. Hulk Hogan has a pasta fast food chain he talks up. Commentators talk over the ring announcer. One commentator is holding a small dog at the end.

 

[Styles clash]

https://www.ringsidenews.com/2020/09/06/wcws-john-riker-ralphus-has-passed-away/

 

[Styles clash]

WCW Monday Nitro September 11 1995

Episode 1 did its job as I've been looking forward to this all week. Alex Wright vs Sabu, Sting vs VK Wallstreet are interesting matches. Wrestling does look physically rough by today's standards. Randy Savage feels dated but its only 1995 so maybe its just me remembering him from even older WWF videos. Lex Luger does look like a star, can see why he was pushed big in WWF prior. Commentator holds a dog at the end of the show.

Not as captivating as the premiere.

 

[Styles clash]

Fall Brawl September 17 1995

It is generally considered fact that professional wrestling in the US was sh*t before WCW's New World Order and WWF's Attitude Era changed it forever. So it was with trepidation that I buckled in for this near 3-hour 1995 PPV.

Badd vs Flyin' Brian is a looong match but pulls it off in the end.

Diamond Dallas Page is physically bigger than in 2001-02 WWF.

Ric Flair looks his age. If he's firmly lodged in the upper card for the next 5 and a half years... we'll see what I think going forward.

Hogan, Savage, Luger and Sting defeat the Dungeon of Doom in the War Games match main event. Caged roof is incredibly short, not far from the wrestlers' heads. No Hardy Boyz flips in this.

 

[mackdadday]

Ravens promos were on fire in WCW days. When he was sacificed to Goldberg i was livid.

I think WWF was gold from 1988-1994.

 

[Styles clash]

I think WWF was gold from 1988-1994.

WWF was never good until 1997. It's almost always nostalgia when people talk up anything before 1997.