Weight loss not successful.

[Cliffhanger]

Frailty is spot on, I would also reccomend less starchy carbs man, there isn't enough vitamins and minerals in your diet either. Cruskits, cereal, sushi and cruskits. Man you're buying into that high grain diet bullshit. Eat more fat less grains, or no grains, you want the best results go primal.

In terms of intensity, do a few sessions with a pt then you will be able to know the difference between what you're doing and what's an appropriate intensity level to achieve your goal.

 

[Hooch]

Should I post pics of the troublesome love handles I am trying to lose?

Do you think it would be help?


You're training for all the wrong reasons - your hearts not in it - go and build self belief and stop worrying about what others think of you.

 

[Raidersrawesome]

Scales are only a small factor , use them as a guide but dont beat yourself up over what they say.

Measurements are a better guide.

Diet is the main contributor to weight loss.

For example I used to bust my ass off training but had a poor diet and my weight and body fat did not drop , it maintained.

I cleaned my diet up and wasnt exercising initially and the weight and fat reduced quickly.

 

[andrrivall]

Vitamins are very helpful to dissolve extra body fats and ultimately to loss your weight.I personally experienced this and I was very successful.Anyhow thanks to all here for nice input.








Click Here

 

[GB!]

me too, i've recently taken clenbuterol and an ECA stack, the weight fell off (and still is)

 

[Kurt Angle]

Man, never start off recommending clen, and not on a RL board. If he is in a stage he needs clen he'll migrate to the appropriate forum.

Firstly, the order of importance for managing weight is

Diet
Sleep
Exercise

Cliffhanger has is right, the high grain myth is killing us all. Also, regarding snacking, fruit has a lot of sugars and with most of us having a past of carb rich diets, we confuse carbohydrate cravings with hunger. Just stomach it.

Now sleep, how much do you need without an alarm? Aim for that every night and for work,
/school that means going to bed around 9-10pm.

Lastly, exercise. We've been sold myths there too. Firstly cardio is not that good for weight loss, it's for conditioning your cardiovascular system (which isn't crucial for weight loss) and managing cholesterol, which can be a problem with diets rich in meat and animal fats. Otherwise there is no reason to be doing cardio more than once per week. It's favoured by PT's because it gets billable time.

weights, or HIT on your big muscles are best and the reason why is this...

The most important factor in managing your weight is not what you do when you exercise, but what your body does when you're not exercising.

Lifting weights are best because putting your muscles in an anabolic state forces your metabolism to act faster.

So OP, looking at your select exercises (dips, OHP, push ups), they work small muscles, put 16kgin each hand and squat or lunge. Your quadricep is your biggest muscle and makes the most demands.

Add in gluts and pecs through deadlifts and benches and yourbig muscles are firing, even when seated in class or in your office cubicle

 

[Danish]

Considering the general weight of people who run 5-6 times per week compared to those that lift the same amount of days, I find the whole "lifting is more important that cardo for weight loss" notion to be a fair amount of bullshit.

The premise behind it may be true, but in practice most people that run everyday tend have less fat on them than people who hit the gym all the time.

Probably has something to do with people that go to the gym a lot often getting suckered into all the protein powder and supplement nonsense and start eating ridiculous high calorie diets and adding on a bunch of fat, while runners just tend to eat enough to fuel their exercise regime.

 

[Kurt Angle]

OK, so what happens then if you lift and don't have a surplus caloric intake?

You're conflating people who lifts weights, and make it their goals to be bigger, hence consume excess calories, particularly with protein and carbs, with the mechanics of weightlifting. So when you say 'the premise may be true' and your goals are to lose weight, then make that premise true.

if you want to lose weight, you aren't going to do that eatting caloric surplus, no matter your activity.

You can point to anecdotes and body comparisons, but you can't fight the law of thermodynamics. Calories out > calories in.

High intensity exertion of your quadricep (and other big muscles) will burn more energy (i.e. more calories out) than any other activity that takes the same amount of time. it was also be prone to burn more energy when you're inert due to its impact this prior exercise has on your metabolic state (i.e. when you're not exercising, you'll be prone to expend more energy, or more calories out).

it's not about weight lifting being more 'important', it's about it being more effective with both your exertion time, and impact on metabolism when you're relatively inert.

 

[Snoochies]

Started doing Cyclic Keto and I love it. I was/am in a calorie deficit prior to this but losing anything seemed impossible. My maintenance was around 3000, dropped to 2500 and combined weights, my weight still increased. Dropped to 2250 and I maintained and eventually dropped to 2000 and only then did the scales go down and my workouts were very weak and just felt fatigued.

I am someone who carries body fat very easy but can gain very easy too. If I ever had a cheat meal, that seemed like a weeks worth of effort wasted.

Anyway, looked at CKD and have gone back to 2500 cals and the weight is dropping and I get to enjoy the weekends and a bunch of greasy foods. See where I'm at in 12 weeks before I give it the final verdict. Only way to know if it works is by trying I guess.

 

[Danish]

OK, so what happens then if you lift and don't have a surplus caloric intake?

You're conflating people who lifts weights, and make it their goals to be bigger, hence consume excess calories, particularly with protein and carbs, with the mechanics of weightlifting. So when you say 'the premise may be true' and your goals are to lose weight, then make that premise true.

My point is not that lifting is not a good way to lose weight in theory. Its that in practice most people who lift don't tend to shift weight as much as people who focus more on cardio.

Your average 5 day per week gym junkie's body fat % is likely to be higher than that of a 5 day per week runner.

if you want to lose weight, you aren't going to do that eatting caloric surplus, no matter your activity.

You can point to anecdotes and body comparisons, but you can't fight the law of thermodynamics. Calories out > calories in.

Absolutely true.

Problem is most people that decide to start lifting to lose weight do so at a gym, and with that comes advice from other gym members and PTs. That advice tends to fill them with nonsense that they need to start eating extra protein and supplements and someone who is just starting out winds up overcompensating for the relatively small amount of calories they are burning in their workout.

How many people do you see drink down a protein shake after 30-40 minutes at the gym? That single shake probable has as many calories in it as they managed to burn off during the entire work out.

Then its off home for a nice big helping of chicken and veggies, and maybe a handful of nuts as a late snack because they were told they are good snack foods (except for the fact that most people tend to eat about 3-4 times as many as they are supposed to).

High intensity exertion of your quadricep (and other big muscles) will burn more energy (i.e. more calories out) than any other activity that takes the same amount of time. it was also be prone to burn more energy when you're inert due to its impact this prior exercise has on your metabolic state (i.e. when you're not exercising, you'll be prone to expend more energy, or more calories out).

High intensity exertion of the quads? Like from, oh I dunno, hillsprints and interval runs?

it's not about weight lifting being more 'important', it's about it being more effective with both your exertion time, and impact on metabolism when you're relatively inert.

For fat and weight loss I would contend that a solid running program that includes 2 x sprint sessions, 1 x long run, and 2 x easy runs per week would be equal to any weight program for shifting fat.

You'll also end up a hell of a lot healthier too given the cardiovascular benefits you mentioned earlier

 

[Kurt Angle]

My point is not that lifting is not a good way to lose weight in theory. Its that in practice most people who lift don't tend to shift weight as much as people who focus more on cardio.

Then you've got a poor interpretation of the theory.

Lifting weights doesn't have to be accompanied by excess caloric intake, and definately shouldn't be if your goal is weight loss.

You're trying to conflate "cardio vs weight lifting" with "cardio and calorie sustainence/deficit vs weightlifting and caloric surplus".

Your average 5 day per week gym junkie's body fat % is likely to be higher than that of a 5 day per week runner.

Except when said weight lifter is cutting ehh?

A lot of body builders will have excess fat because they are in caloric surplus. When they compete, they then lose weight, such as ketogenic diets.

Absolutely true.

Problem is most people that decide to start lifting to lose weight do so at a gym, and with that comes advice from other gym members and PTs. That advice tends to fill them with nonsense that they need to start eating extra protein and supplements and someone who is just starting out winds up overcompensating for the relatively small amount of calories they are burning in their workout.

NO, they get told to eat excess, so they get bigger.

They are advising opposite outcomes to weight loss, because their clients want differetn outcomes.

For example here is one of the most famous body builders on the planet, jay cutler

With low body fat. The next one is high(er) body fat

In the first photo, he has lost weight and body fat compared to the second. Lifting iron and bulking are not always the same goals.

I am saying lifting weights, whilst on an acutely caloric deficit diet is both possible, and a highly effective way of losing weight. I would assert its a more effective method of losing weight thancardio and a caloric deficit diet.

How many people do you see drink down a protein shake after 30-40 minutes at the gym? That single shake probable has as many calories in it as they managed to burn off during the entire work out.

I think anyone who chooses protein powder/supplements (in Australia) over pasteursied liquid egg whites is a goose, and fallen for one of the most prolific marketing campaigns.

As I said, and keep saying, you do not have to have a caloric surplus diet to lift. Protein is extra calorie, and nutrients, to BUILD muscle mass. You do not have to build muscles whilst lifting iron.

Then its off home for a nice big helping of chicken and veggies, and maybe a handful of nuts as a late snack because they were told they are good snack foods (except for the fact that most people tend to eat about 3-4 times as many as they are supposed to).

yes, because they are told to have a caloric surplus diet to put on muscle mass, which is probably their goals.

High intensity exertion of the quads? Like from, oh I dunno, hillsprints and interval runs?

Yup, they are also good exercises. in fact my cardio is interval runs at sprinting (as much as I can at 39). Some people however don't classify them in the same vein as jogging for 5-10km, such as treadmills replicate, or cycling.

That said, they aren't going to get your muscles in the same anabolic state as lifting does, which is the second benefit for managing weight.

For fat and weight loss I would contend that a solid running program that includes 2 x sprint sessions, 1 x long run, and 2 x easy runs per week would be equal to any weight program for shifting fat.

OK. Then it's clear our assertions are different, and i will do for two reasons. (genetics, weight and size being equal)

I will burn more energy in 90 minutes of lifting than you will in 90 minutes of running.

The metabolic state of my muscles with burn more energy that yours when we're sitting on ours arses in a cubicle.

You'll also end up a hell of a lot healthier too given the cardiovascular benefits you mentioned earlier

My heart rate gets pretty high, and my breathing pretty intense, when I have my body weight on my shoulders during a squat, or over my body weight pushing through my glutes in a deadlift. I also mentioned the benefits can easily be obtained with once a week cardio.

For those with high(er) cholesterol, such as over 40's eatting a lot of meat, or even on androgenic hormone boosters, then cardio has greater importance sure.

Also, I will easily settle for increased metabolic rate, as well as other (health) benefits such as greater propensity to increase natural testosterone production, as equally important markers of health.

 

[Snoochies]

I think it should be noted losing fat and losing weight are 2 different things. The body needs energy and will use both fat and muscle to get it. Running will help lose weight at the expense of muscle, hence why people use weights to maintain that muscle the best they can.

 

[Kurt Angle]

Well that's the difference between a catabolic and an anabolic state

 

[Danish]

Then you've got a poor interpretation of the theory.

Lifting weights doesn't have to be accompanied by excess caloric intake, and definately shouldn't be if your goal is weight loss.

You're trying to conflate "cardio vs weight lifting" with "cardio and calorie sustainence/deficit vs weightlifting and caloric surplus".

I understand that they get bigger because they are eating in surplus.

My point is that many people actually think that you can't lift weights without also getting on the supplements and other junk because they constantly have it rammed down their throats by ill informed trainers, leading to poor results.

Except when said weight lifter is cutting ehh?

A lot of body builders will have excess fat because they are in caloric surplus. When they compete, they then lose weight, such as ketogenic diets.

Elite runners eat the same diet all year round and don't bother with cutting phases.

The aussie champion for the 10k is in my running group and he'd maintain about 5-6% body fat pretty much all year round through running. Does 200+km per week though so obviously that isn't sustainable for everyone :lol:

NO, they get told to eat excess, so they get bigger.

They are advising opposite outcomes to weight loss, because their clients want differetn outcomes.

By good trainers, yes. By the majority of trainers, no.

When you consider most PTs have little more than a basic 10 week course worth of training its not hard to see why plenty of them dish out a buttload of terrible advice.

For example here is one of the most famous body builders on the planet, jay cutler

With low body fat. The next one is high(er) body fat

In the first photo, he has lost weight and body fat compared to the second. Lifting iron and bulking are not always the same goals.

And the bloke will likely be dead 20 years early from the tremendously abusive and unhealthy lifestyle many bodybuilders maintain to get their physiques.

I wouldn't hold up any roid raging bodybuilder as an example of the health benefits of lifting.

I am saying lifting weights, whilst on an acutely caloric deficit diet is both possible, and a highly effective way of losing weight. I would assert its a more effective method of losing weight thancardio and a caloric deficit diet.

I agree that it is a good method to lose weight when done correctly. I disagree that is is superior to cardio (assuming cardio includes a 2-3 high intensity sessions, of course).

I think anyone who chooses protein powder/supplements (in Australia) over pasteursied liquid egg whites is a goose, and fallen for one of the most prolific marketing campaigns.

As I said, and keep saying, you do not have to have a caloric surplus diet to lift. Protein is extra calorie, and nutrients, to BUILD muscle mass. You do not have to build muscles whilst lifting iron.

Again, completely agree. Supplements are completely unnecessary for the vast majority of people who are just working out for health/recreation. Whats more they are incorrectly used for the most part and from what I've seen only achieve in adding unnecessary calories to a person's diet.

The main issue is that people tend to assume that as soon as they start lifting they need to get stuck into the cans of tuna, chicken, and protein shakes.

Yup, they are also good exercises. in fact my cardio is interval runs at sprinting (as much as I can at 39). Some people however don't classify them in the same vein as jogging for 5-10km, such as treadmills replicate, or cycling.

That said, they aren't going to get your muscles in the same anabolic state as lifting does, which is the second benefit for managing weight.

What sort of intervals are you doing? timed or distance?

At the moment mine range between 10x400m (60s rest), 5 x 800m (60s), 5 x 1km (90s), and 4 x 1600m (90s).

My hill sprint session is 3km of incline, run either as 10 x 300m, 15 x 200m, or 30 x 100m. Jog back down, no rest between reps.

All of the above a bookended by a 2km warm up and cool down jog at around 5:00/km or so, so usually around a 45-50 min session or thereabouts.

Can't see myself getting the heart rate up and keeping it there for that long with weights, although I would obviously not be as conditioned to lift as well as I can run.

OK. Then it's clear our assertions are different, and i will do for two reasons. (genetics, weight and size being equal)

Certainnly, although I don't think we are necessarily arguing on the same point.

My assertion is simply that deciding to use lifting as a weightloss method can often be unreliable if you aren't careful given the poor attitude and advice that is floating around plenty of gyms and from PTs

I will burn more energy in 90 minutes of lifting than you will in 90 minutes of running.

The metabolic state of my muscles with burn more energy that yours when we're sitting on ours arses in a cubicle.

Maybe, maybe not. Would largely depend on how much effort each of us put in during that 90 minutes wouldn't it?

I'd expect to run around 18-20km on a 90 min training run. Would have to look up the calories but somewhere around the 1500 mark I would guess?

My heart rate gets pretty high, and my breathing pretty intense, when I have my body weight on my shoulders during a squat, or over my body weight pushing through my glutes in a deadlift. I also mentioned the benefits can easily be obtained with once a week cardio.

For those with high(er) cholesterol, such as over 40's eatting a lot of meat, or even on androgenic hormone boosters, then cardio has greater importance sure.

Also, I will easily settle for increased metabolic rate, as well as other (health) benefits such as greater propensity to increase natural testosterone production, as equally important markers of health.

Some benefits can be obtained through once per week cardio. But nowhere near the benefits of running every day.

Just from personal experience I got hospitalised back in January this year after going to hospital with chest pain on Australia day. Turned out to just be indigestion, but because my heart rate measured super low the docs thought something was wrong and decided to keep me overnight. My HR dropped into the 30s while I slept which freaked the nurses the hell out :lol:

Come the next day when the cardiologist was there he took one look at all my scans, told the docs who admitted me they were idiots, then asked me how many kms I run per week.

Resting heart rate is one of the key signs for life longevity so the benefits of cardio are pretty important IMO


But anyway, I'm not really arguing against weightlifting for weightloss providing it is done correctly in the manner you have laid out. My only warning to the OP is to make sure to avoid the regular pitfalls that so many people fall into when they decide to start lifting

 

[Pete Cash]

Only like one former Olympia winner has died and he got to age 71.