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Weird Loophole in the rules.

The Engineers Room

First Grade
Messages
8,945
And no one has picked it up yet.

All those plays where an attacking player jumps past the dead ball line and bats it back in are by the rules a knock on.

From the rulebook, "KNOCK-ON means to knock the ball towards the opponents’ dead
ball line with hand or arm, while playing at the ball".

If they jump past that line at bat it back into the field of play they are knocking the ball towards the opponents dead ball line.

I am not saying that it should be called that way but that is the rule.
 

ellskimore

Juniors
Messages
1,924
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Good observation. That's actually quite funny.
 

Front-Rower

First Grade
Messages
5,297
But the player is knocking the ball back toward their own in goal. Also the player isn't propelling the ball toward the opposition in goal but yet back to it.
 

The Engineers Room

First Grade
Messages
8,945
The rule just says opponents dead ball line. It's the same for forward pass also.

The reason is that beyond the dead ball line is meant to be out of play.
 

Front-Rower

First Grade
Messages
5,297
The rule just says opponents dead ball line. It's the same for forward pass also.

The reason is that beyond the dead ball line is meant to be out of play.

Only if the ball bounces is it out (or player is grounded outside the field of play when touching the ball). That was made quite clear on Friday night when Melbourne had to kick a line drop out.
 

no name

Coach
Messages
19,212
The rule just says opponents dead ball line. It's the same for forward pass also.

The reason is that beyond the dead ball line is meant to be out of play.

So if you're in goal and being held up, you can chuck it forward for someone else to ground? (As long as they are onside)
 

ellskimore

Juniors
Messages
1,924
Roy Masters wrote something earlier in the year that technically within the rules, you should imagine the deadball line as an invisible wall. He said under the rules refs are supposed to call the play dead if it crosses this 'wall' and it used to be interpreted in this fashion but has slowly eased out. Something along those lines. If I can be f**ked to post the article, i'll find it.
 

ellskimore

Juniors
Messages
1,924
For those that care

-----------


The NRL referees' "pane of glass" has become the NRL players' pain in the arse. Thirteen years ago, referees were given an instructional video which said that if a ball crossed the dead-ball line, they should think of it as smashing through an imaginary pane of glass.
Therefore, if it broke the window via the actions of the kicker, it resulted in a 20-metre tap to the defending team. If the defenders forced it over the dead-ball line, it became a line drop-out.

It's a key difference, as was demonstrated on Friday night in the Broncos' win over the Panthers. The referee ruled Penrith should restart play with a line drop-out, following an in-goal grubber by Broncos fullback Darius Boyd, even though Penrith's Matt Moylan, with both feet on the ground, made contact with the ball only after it smashed the imaginary pane of glass. It's obvious referees have now abandoned this commonsense rule and decided that because the ball had not bounced on the ground after it crossed the dead-ball line, Moylan had denied the Broncos the miraculous opportunity of tapping the ball back and scoring a try.
This would explain why recently (and technically incorrectly) they allowed Kevin Naiqama's athletic dive across the dead-ball line to tap the ball back for the Wests Tigers fullback to score a brilliant try. Ditto Greg Inglis' knock-back of the ball to Mark Gasnier for a try to Australia at the SCG in 2008. We wouldn't want to deny these tries yet, technically, Naiqama and Inglis knocked the ball towards their opponent's dead-ball line.
Advertisement

Referees had an opportunity to rewrite the rule book in simple language when they introduced what was called the "Mick Potter" rule in response to the actions of fullbacks standing over the dead-ball line and reaching in to touch a ball that had been superbly grubber-kicked to stop within a metre of the line. So in came the "straddle rule" which says, "Should a kick be made dead by a defending player straddling the dead-ball line or touch in-goal line, play will restart with a goal line drop-out."
Moylan wasn't "straddling" the dead-ball line He didn't reach across the dead-ball line and pull the ball across. He had both feet on the ground. Maybe the referees are confused with the different laws regarding the ball crossing the touch line, compared to the dead-ball line. In the former, a ball in the air is not in touch until it hits the ground on or beyond the touch line as "The ball is in touch when it or a player in contact with it touches the touch line or the ground beyond the touch line".
In accordance with this, a 'Note' in the Section 9 of the rules explains "Jumping player knocks ball back", stating "The ball is not in touch if during flight it crosses the touch line but is knocked back by a player who is off the ground after jumping from the field of play."
Yet in regard to the dead-ball line there is no equivalent to the above rules. There was another incident on Friday night in the Tigers' loss to the Roosters which the lawmakers could rewrite if they don't want rugby league to resemble Australian rules. Referee Jared Maxwell denied Tigers centre Chris Lawrence a try, ruling a Roosters player caught the ball on the full in his own in-goal, even though Lawrence stripped the ball before the Roosters player's feet reached the ground.

The rule was introduced to reward defending players for their bravery in defusing a bomb, one of the few laws of the game biased to the defence. But the poorly worded section 8, 2 (c) rule does not reflect this. It states the ball is dead and a 20m tap is awarded when "a defending player, in his in-goal, takes a kick in general play from an opponent on the full." Note that "takes a kick" doesn't even mention the ball! Perhaps "NRL takes a kick in the behind!", if we want to use AFL language.

Under boss Dave Smith, the NRL has preached transparency, yet has abandoned the pane of glass rule! The current interpretations of the Laws by the present cadre of Referees/Assistant Referees/Touch Judges/Video Referees/Assistant Video Referees is the product of committee meetings. Determining correct rulings by consensus isn't necessarily conducive to good consistent decision-making. Players want certainty, not rules made of perspex, bending with the wind.

The rule explained
In order to reduce kicks in goal (and save themselves the agony of adjudicating who forced the ball dead), referees last year ruled that if an attacking kick went dead, the defending team would restart play with a 20-metre tap on zero tackle.
This is why Penrith coach Ivan Cleary blew up on Friday night after his team should have been awarded a tap. He said: "Ridiculous. And a massive, massive change in a very tight game. Instead of getting seven tackles, you get to defend your own line again."
One incentive of the rule change was to encourage teams to run the ball on the last tackle, rather than risk a kick over the dead-ball line. It has been successful.
Prozone reports there has been 40 tries in the first eight rounds from running the ball through the hands on the last tackle, compared to 30 for the same period last year. ​


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...ne-broncos-20150510-ggy85l.html#ixzz3lc1xnQjo
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook
 

insert.pause

First Grade
Messages
6,446
the rule is stupid, it only advantages the attacking team, if a defender is standing dead and catches it before it bounces it should be deemed dead, it doesn't stop attacking players beating the defender to the ball and batting it back in. How is it technically any different to catching a kickoff over the deadball line, which is deemed out on the full?
 

kdalymc

Bench
Messages
4,314
Ha that imaginary wall crap is bullshit stupid. Inglis bat back and the naiqama is perfect- it didn't hit the ground...
 

Tinkler

Juniors
Messages
430
For those that care

-----------


The NRL referees' "pane of glass" has become the NRL players' pain in the arse. Thirteen years ago, referees were given an instructional video which said that if a ball crossed the dead-ball line, they should think of it as smashing through an imaginary pane of glass.
Therefore, if it broke the window via the actions of the kicker, it resulted in a 20-metre tap to the defending team. If the defenders forced it over the dead-ball line, it became a line drop-out.

It's a key difference, as was demonstrated on Friday night in the Broncos' win over the Panthers. The referee ruled Penrith should restart play with a line drop-out, following an in-goal grubber by Broncos fullback Darius Boyd, even though Penrith's Matt Moylan, with both feet on the ground, made contact with the ball only after it smashed the imaginary pane of glass. It's obvious referees have now abandoned this commonsense rule and decided that because the ball had not bounced on the ground after it crossed the dead-ball line, Moylan had denied the Broncos the miraculous opportunity of tapping the ball back and scoring a try.
This would explain why recently (and technically incorrectly) they allowed Kevin Naiqama's athletic dive across the dead-ball line to tap the ball back for the Wests Tigers fullback to score a brilliant try. Ditto Greg Inglis' knock-back of the ball to Mark Gasnier for a try to Australia at the SCG in 2008. We wouldn't want to deny these tries yet, technically, Naiqama and Inglis knocked the ball towards their opponent's dead-ball line.
Advertisement

Referees had an opportunity to rewrite the rule book in simple language when they introduced what was called the "Mick Potter" rule in response to the actions of fullbacks standing over the dead-ball line and reaching in to touch a ball that had been superbly grubber-kicked to stop within a metre of the line. So in came the "straddle rule" which says, "Should a kick be made dead by a defending player straddling the dead-ball line or touch in-goal line, play will restart with a goal line drop-out."
Moylan wasn't "straddling" the dead-ball line He didn't reach across the dead-ball line and pull the ball across. He had both feet on the ground. Maybe the referees are confused with the different laws regarding the ball crossing the touch line, compared to the dead-ball line. In the former, a ball in the air is not in touch until it hits the ground on or beyond the touch line as "The ball is in touch when it or a player in contact with it touches the touch line or the ground beyond the touch line".
In accordance with this, a 'Note' in the Section 9 of the rules explains "Jumping player knocks ball back", stating "The ball is not in touch if during flight it crosses the touch line but is knocked back by a player who is off the ground after jumping from the field of play."
Yet in regard to the dead-ball line there is no equivalent to the above rules. There was another incident on Friday night in the Tigers' loss to the Roosters which the lawmakers could rewrite if they don't want rugby league to resemble Australian rules. Referee Jared Maxwell denied Tigers centre Chris Lawrence a try, ruling a Roosters player caught the ball on the full in his own in-goal, even though Lawrence stripped the ball before the Roosters player's feet reached the ground.

The rule was introduced to reward defending players for their bravery in defusing a bomb, one of the few laws of the game biased to the defence. But the poorly worded section 8, 2 (c) rule does not reflect this. It states the ball is dead and a 20m tap is awarded when "a defending player, in his in-goal, takes a kick in general play from an opponent on the full." Note that "takes a kick" doesn't even mention the ball! Perhaps "NRL takes a kick in the behind!", if we want to use AFL language.

Under boss Dave Smith, the NRL has preached transparency, yet has abandoned the pane of glass rule! The current interpretations of the Laws by the present cadre of Referees/Assistant Referees/Touch Judges/Video Referees/Assistant Video Referees is the product of committee meetings. Determining correct rulings by consensus isn't necessarily conducive to good consistent decision-making. Players want certainty, not rules made of perspex, bending with the wind.

The rule explained
In order to reduce kicks in goal (and save themselves the agony of adjudicating who forced the ball dead), referees last year ruled that if an attacking kick went dead, the defending team would restart play with a 20-metre tap on zero tackle.
This is why Penrith coach Ivan Cleary blew up on Friday night after his team should have been awarded a tap. He said: "Ridiculous. And a massive, massive change in a very tight game. Instead of getting seven tackles, you get to defend your own line again."
One incentive of the rule change was to encourage teams to run the ball on the last tackle, rather than risk a kick over the dead-ball line. It has been successful.
Prozone reports there has been 40 tries in the first eight rounds from running the ball through the hands on the last tackle, compared to 30 for the same period last year. ​


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...ne-broncos-20150510-ggy85l.html#ixzz3lc1xnQjo
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook


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