Welcome to the comp, Redcliffe.

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Because we know only 15k came from outside WA meaning 45k were locals.
Just like the 40k locals that attended both double headers and the multiple sold out so called one off crowds. A 16k averags for games played there in a stadium that only held 16k when games were first taken there and now at 20k capacity.

You say one off games don't count for a season long average but they are the only evidence there is and that evidence is positive and shows the support is there. They can only attend the games they get and they do.

You and I can not say if they will or won't work out, but only guess.
My guess taking into account the recent history is that they will and I doubt I will be wrong. No skin off my back either way.

Fact is perth is a big wealthy market with serious government support and proven history of playing the game and attending matches.
A group of monkeys could run a successful perth club with all that behind them.

Why are there only 8k TV viewers watching NRL regular season games in Perth?

Why does WA have just 4.1k players?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

You hate the Perth bid so everything you say is self serving. You still haven’t accepted the Storm. You have constantly downplayed their growth and success. You Sydney centric folk truly are cowards when it comes to truly growing the game.

You haven't backed up your claim about the Storm's junior teams being littered with locals, you lying fat sack of shit.

 

[shewi6]

Why are there only 8k TV viewers watching NRL regular season games in Perth?

Why does WA have just 4.1k players?

Well because the game and the broadcasters have treated that market and any other outside of nsw/qld like shit for its entire existence.

And yet there is still a great base of support that will only build with a team of its own.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Poor old Shewi has taken on the peanut gallery. Good luck.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

And what sport do they play in an origin game? Here is a hint, it's not the nbl.

Plus origin is not the only game that i cited if u can read.

All one off games are played between neutral teams so yes they aren't indicative of the support a local team will get, a local team would draw more as donkey pointed out in his research, perth teams draw well in perth.

Two of the three highest attended games at the WACA involved neutral clubs several years before the Reds were admitted into the competition. Only one Western Reds game -- their firstever game on 12 March 1995 -- drew a higher attendance. Seven of the top ten highest attended games at the WACA involved neutral clubs.

All 19 of the lowest attended matches features the Reds.

Rugby League Tables / Attendances /W.A.C.A.

Rugby League Tables - NRL Stats & Tables

afltables.com

The crowd for Origin was 59k.

A Bledisloe Cup game drew 60k.

Thr 60k who attended the Bledisloe Cup games aren't watching the Force at PRS.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

perth has continually shown for any rugby league event held there that they show up in great numbers and have proven it now for over 10 years.

Souths vs Melbourne
Date:Sun 21-May-2017
Venue:Perth Oval
Crowd:11,433

Rugby League Tables / Souths 6 v Melbourne 14 / Round 11, 2017

Rugby League Tables - NRL Stats & Tables

afltables.com

Manly vs New Zealand
Date:Sat 01-Jul-2017
Venue:Perth Oval
Crowd:6,258

Rugby League Tables / Manly 26 v New Zealand 22 / Round 17, 2017

Rugby League Tables - NRL Stats & Tables

afltables.com

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Well because the game and the broadcasters have treated that market and any other outside of nsw/qld like shit for its entire existence.

And yet there is still a great base of support that will only build with a team of its own.

It's the broadcasters fault for not sending a thug into every household to force people to watch NRL?

The games are broadcast live into Perth on 9Gem. People just don't want to watch them.

AwFuL games in Perth are often broadcast on 7mate.

AwFuL games are broadcast into Brisbane and Sydney on 7mate.

You cannot blame the broadcasters for people choosing not to watch live NRL games on 9Gem.

 

[shewi6]

Yawn!
All this time and energy researching, debating with such conviction and for what?

When a perth team is admitted you're still going to be wrong about it's sustainability.

I don't have a dog in this fight I just believe a perth team is the right thing to do and is the best out of all the options to come in next. Now is the best time to do it whilst the government is pushing this hard for it.

If it doesn't happen, so be it. But it would be a massive missed opportunity.

And I don't really care to keep going over the same old tired points with you any longer that has infested every corner of the expansion forum forever.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Yawn!
All this time and energy researching, debating with such conviction and for what?

When a perth team is admitted you're still going to be wrong about it's sustainability.

I don't have a dog in this fight I just believe a perth team is the right thing to do and is the best out of all the options to come in next. Now is the best time to do it whilst the government is pushing this hard for it.

If it doesn't happen, so be it. But it would be a massive missed opportunity.

And I don't really care to keep going over the same old tired points with you any longer that has infested every corner of the expansion forum forever.

What will you do if Perth doesn't meet the high expectations you've set for it?

I'd rather set my expectations low and be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Matt_CBY]

Western Australians support local clubs when they're as dominant as the Storm. When they struggle like the Suns they turn away in droves.

I wonder how much does the fact that all sports leagues are scheduled around what is best for TV on the east coast plays a part in this.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I wonder how much does the fact that all sports leagues are scheduled around what is best for TV on the east coast plays a part in this.

It doesn't help with ratings in Perth.

AwFuL is a religion in Perth. The West Coast Eagles and Fremantle Dockers drew woefully low ratings in Perth last year.

In Perth, West Coast matches averaged 74,000 – down 22% – while Fremantle games fared worse – down 28% YoY and averaged 69,000. The Western Derby rated 155,000 and 154,000. Games involving neither Perth side averaged 45,000.​

​

State of the Game 2023: AFL Attendance, Social Media, Support, Participation, Memberships and TV Ratings - Sports Industry AU

After a record breaking season and a huge grand final, its time to wrap up the season with a nice big bow, with new records set in Membership, Attendance and tv ratings. Social Media Collingwood leads all comers in the social media stakes with 390,000 followers on facebook, 368,000 followers on...

www.footyindustry.com

On the other hand, TV ratings in Brisbane for the Queensland NRL teams are massive.

In Brisbane, the Broncos average 170,000, the Dolphins average 126,000. Other Queensland regional teams average 131,000 on Nine, while matches involving no Queensland sides average 98,000.​

​

State of the Game 2023: NRL & NRLW TV Ratings, Attendances, Social Media, Memberships and Finance - Sports Industry AU

Well after one of the best grand finals seen in many a year, its time to say goodbye to the NRL season and hello to the forthcoming internationals, but first we take a good look at the metrics from what was a record breaking season for the National Rugby League. Attendance its all good news...

www.footyindustry.com

AwFuL games in Brisbane not contested by a Queensland team average 26k. NRL games in Perth average 8k.

The West Coast Eagles vs Fremantle game drew a lower rating in Perth than the Broncos' average in Brisbane. The average for NRL in Brisbane is higher than the average for the West Coast Eagles in Perth.

Perth is a dud market for the broadcasters.

 

[shewi6]

What will you do if Perth doesn't meet the high expectations you've set for it?

I'd rather set my expectations low and be pleasantly surprised.

I guess I would just go on living my life completely as normal, not like i would have a breakdown about it.

High expectations? That the team is warranted and will be sustainable are not wildly optimistic. Nothing over the last 15 years or anything you have tried to argue has convinced me otherwise.

Even my lowest expectations would have them as more successful than a number of clubs currently in the comp.

Only time will tell, they still have to get a team yet. I think it's worth pursuing and the people paying for it do too.
I won't lose anything if it fails.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I guess I would just go on living my life completely as normal, not like i would have a breakdown about it.

High expectations? That the team is warranted and will be sustainable are not wildly optimistic. Nothing over the last 15 years or anything you have tried to argue has convinced me otherwise.

Even my lowest expectations would have them as more successful than a number of clubs currently in the comp.

Only time will tell, they still have to get a team yet. I think it's worth pursuing and the people paying for it do too.
I won't lose anything if it fails.

If it fails then a more deserving candidate will have been denied a place in the NRL. On top of that, the NRL will be stuck with a deadbeat club that needs to be propped up.

Nothing I say will change your mind. You are emotionally invested in a Perth team and won't be swayed by informarion that doesn't support its inclusion.

The fact you used a State of Origin attendance to support your position shows you haven't thought this through very well and are clutching at straws. Especially when you incorrectly cited the attendance for a Bledisloe Cup game and assigned it to a State of Origin game.

You basically argued that a Perth-based NRL team is guaranteed to draw an average of 20k at PRS because a State of Origin game at Perth Stadium drew 59k.

Wouldn't that mean the Western Force should be averaging 20k at PRS because a Bledisloe Cup game drew 60k at Perth Stadium?

Or is this the point where you and the other supporters of Perth say "that's different"?

 

[Pj,Rj,Hj]

Are sports teams in Perth well supported?

The Scorchers and Wildcats draw massive crowds. They've also been the most successful teams in the BBL and NBL.

On the other hand, the Force and Glory draw woeful crowds. They've also struggled over the last 20 years. Perth Glory drew better attendances in the NSL when they were the dominant team in the late 1990s and early 2000s.

The Eagles and Dockers are the oy teams that draw huge attendances, regardless of form. However, support for both clubs dropped somewhat when their onfield form hit rock bottom.

What we can take from this is form will impact how many Western Australians support a Perth-based NRL team. If it's a dud over several seasons then it will more likely than not struggle to draw 10-12k to its games.

Since 1997, at least five AwFuL clubs have drawn higher attendances than the Eagles.

View attachment 89800

The key detail is over that time the three lowest drawing clubs have been the Brisbane Lions, Gold Coast Suns and GWS Giants. Despite the money thrown at development in Brisbane and Sydney, it's produced mediocre gains.

AFL Tables - Crowds 1921-2024

But again you are missing the wider context. The Force and The Glory play in failing leagues, where Perth's crowds are not at all outliers in the whole fall from grace of those leagues. I never said Perth crowds a strong no matter what, and defy the fortunes of their respective leagues.

The time frame snapshot of the AFL crowds seems odd. Anyway, it's not clear if those averages are total or for home matches, which can vary greatly. The stats at face value don't show that the 2 WA AFL sides were playing at the antiquated Subiaco Oval till 2017. That West Coast had thousands on a waiting list that they pay to be on, and still do.
That an apples to apples comparison of home attendance is best done by comparing home team vs interstate opponent, as opposed to those featuring opponents from the same city, with easy and affordable access for both sets of fans, which Melbourne's "Big 4" greatly benefit from.
That's why I said West Coast may have the best MEDIAN average in the AFL, particularly since moving to Optus and not having to compete with one arm tied behind their back.
While picking up the wooden spoon last year, West Coast made $16 million in net membership revenue, the next best was Collingwood at $10.4 million.

So again as I previously said, I do believe a COMPETITIVE Perth NRL team will average 20-22000 in the medium and long term.

*Apologies all for accidentally derailing this Redcliffe thread. I lost track of similar conversations across multiple threads

 

[shewi6]

If it fails then a more deserving candidate will have been denied a place in the NRL. On top of that, the NRL will be stuck with a deadbeat club that needs to be propped up.

Nothing I say will change your mind. You are emotionally invested in a Perth team and won't be swayed by informarion that doesn't support its inclusion.

The fact you used a State of Origin attendance to support your position shows you haven't thought this through very well and are clutching at straws. Especially when you incorrectly cited the attendance for a Bledisloe Cup game and assigned it to a State of Origin game.

You basically argued that a Perth-based NRL team is guaranteed to draw an average of 20k at PRS because a State of Origin game at Perth Stadium drew 59k.

Wouldn't that mean the Western Force should be averaging 20k at PRS because a Bledisloe Cup game drew 60k at Perth Stadium?

Or is this the point where you and the other supporters of Perth say "that's different"?

I know your just being deliberately obtuse but that is only because your a dumb merkin who loves to argue over a perth team that even blind Freddy can see won't have the issues u try to claim.

You really think my whole argument is destroyed because I stated a crowd that was 59.7k as 60k?
The fact you chose to try and reject the validity of my argument over semantics speaks to the stupidity of your position.

Do i have to quote every crowd number down to the individual to satisfy you? No, every sane person would recognise the point being made about a full house at a 60k stadium.

 

[Perth Red]

love the donkey salty tears,
perth faves, Logan nowhere to be seen.
more salt from donkey than in the lakes at Rottnest lol

perth will be fine as long as they arent a basket case for years on end.

brisbane3? well they’ve fallen over before they even started lol
dolphins losing 20% of their crowds in just the second season isnt helping their cause for a future third club

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

But again you are missing the wider context. The Force and The Glory play in failing leagues, where Perth's crowds are not at all outliers in the whole fall from grace of those leagues.

The Perth Glory drew bigger crowds in the NSL, which was a dying league. The A-League is still drawing higher attendances than the NSL.

@Colk reckons NBL is as niche as the Australian Baseball League. According to the GEMBA report, NBL has a higher profile than NRL amongst Western Australians.

I never said Perth crowds a strong no matter what, and defy the fortunes of their respective leagues.

It's been implied by other pro-Perth posters that Western Australians always support their teams in large numbers.

The time frame snapshot of the AFL crowds seems odd. Anyway, it's not clear if those averages are total or for home matches, which can vary greatly.

They were for home matches only.

The stats at face value don't show that the 2 WA AFL sides were playing at the antiquated Subiaco Oval till 2017. That West Coast had thousands on a waiting list that they pay to be on, and still do.
That an apples to apples comparison of home attendance is best done by comparing home team vs interstate opponent, as opposed to those featuring opponents from the same city, with easy and affordable access for both sets of fans, which Melbourne's "Big 4" greatly benefit from.
That's why I said West Coast may have the best MEDIAN average in the AFL, particularly since moving to Optus and not having to compete with one arm tied behind their back.

Adelaide Crows were higher on the list.

While picking up the wooden spoon last year, West Coast made $16 million in net membership revenue, the next best was Collingwood at $10.4 million.

Which shows how dominant fumbleball is in Perth. Using the Eagles' support to argue an NRL team in Perth will be huge would be like saying the Lions must be well supported because the Broncos are the biggest and richest rugby league club in the world. Lions have the largest debt in AwFuL and receive more assistance from the governing body than most of their opponents.

The Brisbane Lions, who have the competition’s largest debt, will retain a similar level of funding to 2022, a total of more than $18 million, and will rank third on the funding table, narrowly ahead of North Melbourne.

AFL 2023: Funding for every AFL club revealed

amp.theage.com.au

So again as I previously said, I do believe a COMPETITIVE Perth NRL team will average 20-22000 in the medium and long term.

We will have to wait and see if your prediction becomes true. If it does then Perth will be the third to fifth largest club in the world.

*Apologies all for accidentally derailing this Redcliffe thread. I lost track of similar conversations across multiple threads

We're all guilty of it.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I know your just being deliberately obtuse but that is only because your a dumb merkin who loves to argue over a perth team that even blind Freddy can see won't have the issues u try to claim.

It's "you're". Not "your".

If Blind Freeddy doesn't think there's any issues with Perth then why does the ARLC have concerns about accepting a standalone Perth consortium?

You really think my whole argument is destroyed because I stated a crowd that was 59.7k as 60k?
The fact you chose to try and reject the validity of my argument over semantics speaks to the stupidity of your position.

I think your argument is stupid because you're conflating State of Origin with NRL. Everyone knows State of Origin is the highest pinnacle for rugby league.

Melbourne drew 94k to an Origin game in 1994. Storm averaged about 11k to their home games across their first decade.

Bledisloe Cup game at Perth Stadium drew a bigger crowd than the State of Origin match. It hasn't translated into huge attendances for the Western Force.

Do i have to quote every crowd number down to the individual to satisfy you? No, every sane person would recognise the point being made about a full house at a 60k stadium.

You sound triggered.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

love the donkey salty tears,
perth faves, Logan nowhere to be seen.
more salt from donkey than in the lakes at Rottnest lol

perth will be fine as long as they arent a basket case for years on end.

brisbane3? well they’ve fallen over before they even started lol
dolphins losing 20% of their crowds in just the second season isnt helping their cause for a future third club

Learn the difference between a common noun and a proper noun.

 

[mongoose]

What will you do if Perth doesn't meet the high expectations you've set for it?

I'd rather set my expectations low and be pleasantly surprised.

why doesn't Abdo and Vlandys want Brisbane 3 to come in yet? better call NRL HQ and them how stupid they are!