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What has Australia done for Rugby League ?

Te Kaha

First Grade
Messages
5,998
Maybe if the clubs got over their own self interest and released the players to play the Kiwis would win...
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
Oz bro, in my opinion, Sel Pearson is one of the big reasons international league does not have parity in conditions.

Sel has a habit of flying off the deep end on a merry go-round tangent about how he hates this, and he hates that, he's like 70% of posters here, except his conspiracies he foresees are with the ARL and not the Roosters!

Sometimes I think he needs to bring a more mature, level headed, process built approach to the table. Instead of rark up about the inadaquecies - and lets face it, the Puletua instance, the Vainokolo instance of being scrubbed from the Kiwis highlights the audaciousness of the clubs, lets highlight them. Forget trying to get a run in Graeme Lowe's column, or, god bless his poor soul that guy from the NZ Herald Peter Jessup's column, he needs to sit down, and put together stragetic development processes to both the ARL and English version of the ARL. Together the three countries need to join together for the good of the game.

Currently there's a lot of cattiness, pettiness, and downright stupidty thats preventing the game from going forth. In rah-rah, the IRB wouldn't tolerate half the stupid rulings we have in our game. Because its a combined union, that has most importantly, power. Currently international sides have no power over clubs, none whatsoever, and you can't hide from the fact that Australian clubs have two goals, to provide premierships to their fans, and provide players to THEIR rep sides (Kangas, and Origin). Thats a bit selfish, but its true, and given the way the game is set up, unfortunately, who can blame them?

At the end of the day - the inadaquecies are very much out there. But we've brought it all on our selves by weak leadership and the inability to co-operate together towards one common goal.

But overall, I reiterate, we can't really bite the hand that feeds us. The Australians provide the competition for the Kiwis to gain experience at other clubs, and indeed allows a plethora of players to represent their own country with the Warriors. They don't have to do that. That alone has expanded interest in New Zealand, truth be told before the Warriors came along there was not too much live coverage of league in New Zealand, and coming from parochial rugby union powerhouses it didn't rate a mention at the dinner table, regardless of how the Kiwis travelled. Its only since the Warriors have gained exposure through the Australian competion that its opened my eyes, I was very easily turned from the dark side to league very quickly, and I wasn't the only one. That turns into people through the gate pumping money into junior development, it turns into people wanting to sponsor our game pumping money into our junior development, and it makes young kids want to play in the NRL now that they know what its all about.

For all the wrongs - the Puletua debacle, the Logan Swann no try at Aussie Stadium, the Tri-Origin series in what '97 where that touchie completely and utterly cheated (there is no denying he cheated with that last no try against NSW - no debate there), Gus Gould, the biggotry of "thank god the Tasman Sea seperates us", the tripe that was Toni Carroll's perceived loyalty, the idiodicy of Karmichael Hunt's allegiance and the reason behind it - thank christ for the Australian leaguies allowing us in, and thank christ for Australians like Mick Watson and Daniel Anderson who while in retrospect in 2004 have earnt damaging reviews have built staggeringly good development processes in New Zealand league for the future of New Zealand to benefit from.

Lets work together - stop the blame, and move forward. We as the Warriors ran 14th for a reason - not because of the Australians, because we deserved to. We ran last in the Tri Nations for a reason, not because of the Australians, because we deserved to.
 

Sir Clifford GC

Juniors
Messages
1,386
Iafeta said:
Oz bro, in my opinion, Sel Pearson is one of the big reasons international league does not have parity in conditions.

Sel has a habit of flying off the deep end on a merry go-round tangent about how he hates this, and he hates that, he's like 70% of posters here, except his conspiracies he foresees are with the ARL and not the Roosters!

Sometimes I think he needs to bring a more mature, level headed, process built approach to the table. Instead of rark up about the inadaquecies - and lets face it, the Puletua instance, the Vainokolo instance of being scrubbed from the Kiwis highlights the audaciousness of the clubs, lets highlight them. Forget trying to get a run in Graeme Lowe's column, or, god bless his poor soul that guy from the NZ Herald Peter Jessup's column, he needs to sit down, and put together stragetic development processes to both the ARL and English version of the ARL. Together the three countries need to join together for the good of the game.

Currently there's a lot of cattiness, pettiness, and downright stupidty thats preventing the game from going forth. In rah-rah, the IRB wouldn't tolerate half the stupid rulings we have in our game. Because its a combined union, that has most importantly, power. Currently international sides have no power over clubs, none whatsoever, and you can't hide from the fact that Australian clubs have two goals, to provide premierships to their fans, and provide players to THEIR rep sides (Kangas, and Origin). Thats a bit selfish, but its true, and given the way the game is set up, unfortunately, who can blame them?

At the end of the day - the inadaquecies are very much out there. But we've brought it all on our selves by weak leadership and the inability to co-operate together towards one common goal.

But overall, I reiterate, we can't really bite the hand that feeds us. The Australians provide the competition for the Kiwis to gain experience at other clubs, and indeed allows a plethora of players to represent their own country with the Warriors. They don't have to do that. That alone has expanded interest in New Zealand, truth be told before the Warriors came along there was not too much live coverage of league in New Zealand, and coming from parochial rugby union powerhouses it didn't rate a mention at the dinner table, regardless of how the Kiwis travelled. Its only since the Warriors have gained exposure through the Australian competion that its opened my eyes, I was very easily turned from the dark side to league very quickly, and I wasn't the only one. That turns into people through the gate pumping money into junior development, it turns into people wanting to sponsor our game pumping money into our junior development, and it makes young kids want to play in the NRL now that they know what its all about.

For all the wrongs - the Puletua debacle, the Logan Swann no try at Aussie Stadium, the Tri-Origin series in what '97 where that touchie completely and utterly cheated (there is no denying he cheated with that last no try against NSW - no debate there), Gus Gould, the biggotry of "thank god the Tasman Sea seperates us", the tripe that was Toni Carroll's perceived loyalty, the idiodicy of Karmichael Hunt's allegiance and the reason behind it - thank christ for the Australian leaguies allowing us in, and thank christ for Australians like Mick Watson and Daniel Anderson who while in retrospect in 2004 have earnt damaging reviews have built staggeringly good development processes in New Zealand league for the future of New Zealand to benefit from.

Lets work together - stop the blame, and move forward. We as the Warriors ran 14th for a reason - not because of the Australians, because we deserved to. We ran last in the Tri Nations for a reason, not because of the Australians, because we deserved to.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Hit the nail on the head champ Fantastic post.
 

Misty Bee

First Grade
Messages
7,082
Iafeta - another great post!

NZ could do something for international league by being a decent alternative to Yawnion. Get more than 20k to a test - give your boys 40k - they always lift for a good crowd, imagine how they'd lift for a decent one! Not only that, but tap into the Awl Blicksstocks. Get the media happening. Hype it up.

There is one almighty chance for you to make internaional league happen. And that's to fix up your own backyard!
 

AuckMel

Bench
Messages
2,959
Te Kaha said:
Maybe if the clubs got over their own self interest and released the players to play the Kiwis would win...

That's exactly why the ARL and the ESL stand by and support the clubs. They are a bunch of gutless cowards who crap themselves at the very thought of facing a full strength Kiwi team.

Notice how quickly Cliffy GC and Misty Bee have forgotten the score at Nth Harbour while bagging RL in NZ?

The next time the Aussies or English tell us who can and can't play for us, is the day we should simply not play.
 

Sir Clifford GC

Juniors
Messages
1,386
AuckMel said:
Te Kaha said:
Maybe if the clubs got over their own self interest and released the players to play the Kiwis would win...

That's exactly why the ARL and the ESL stand by and support the clubs. They are a bunch of gutless cowards who crap themselves at the very thought of facing a full strength Kiwi team.

Notice how quickly Cliffy GC and Misty Bee have forgotten the score at Nth Harbour while bagging RL in NZ?

The next time the Aussies or English tell us who can and can't play for us, is the day we should simply not play.
i remember mate
but maybe if New Zealand had its own strong domestic comp and didnt rely on its players playing in the NRL and ESL they wouldnt have this problem. Maybe the bartercard cup was 10 years too late.
You gotta question the mentallity of the kiwi side on paper they are a superior side to the poms yet they didnt get close to them.

One thing with some of u kiwis, if aussie bashing or aussie moaning was a sport you would be undisputed world champs.

Why wasnt NZ league in the position to ask an Australian side to join their comp? How weak would a NZ test side be if 60-70% of their players didnt have NRL experience.

You say what has australia done for the international game, heres a pretty straight forward answer Australia has made NZ stronger by giving their players oportunity to play in the most elite Rugby League competition in the world. Yet the whingers want to look at the glass being half empty rather than being half full.
 

ThrashViking

Juniors
Messages
2,272
"One thing with some of u kiwis, if aussie bashing or aussie moaning was a sport you would be undisputed world champs. "
The English still have that trophy secure from the last world championship
 

carlnz

Bench
Messages
3,860
Sir Clifford GC said:
i remember mate
but maybe if New Zealand had its own strong domestic comp and didnt rely on its players playing in the NRL and ESL they wouldnt have this problem. Maybe the bartercard cup was 10 years too late.
You gotta question the mentallity of the kiwi side on paper they are a superior side to the poms yet they didnt get close to them.

One thing with some of u kiwis, if aussie bashing or aussie moaning was a sport you would be undisputed world champs.

Why wasnt NZ league in the position to ask an Australian side to join their comp? How weak would a NZ test side be if 60-70% of their players didnt have NRL experience.

You say what has australia done for the international game, heres a pretty straight forward answer Australia has made NZ stronger by giving their players oportunity to play in the most elite Rugby League competition in the world. Yet the whingers want to look at the glass being half empty rather than being half full.

Mate if NZ could stop all these players going to Australia we would have such a strong Bartercard Cup - Just remember the days Australia use to tour NZ and Auckland beat Australia!! this is the early 90's....

But this ill never happen untill Bartercard Cup is a professional competition...

How ever....just remember we havent lost at home in two years...and we only get one International game a year!!! If the NRL let our players out and say Tongan players...we could play Tonga...or like in 2001, play France...

The Kiwis got sooooo much press during the tri nations..it was unreal.....we need more of it...then we would start to completly fill North Harbour Stadium.....

NRL runs the World Game...and untill that is taken away from them...the game will suffer Internationaly
 

AuckMel

Bench
Messages
2,959
Sir Clifford GC said:
i remember mate
but maybe if New Zealand had its own strong domestic comp and didnt rely on its players playing in the NRL and ESL they wouldnt have this problem.

We have a strong domestic comp. Why do you think so many players get snapped up by the NRL and ESL?

Our problem is money. A lack of it to be precise. That you can't see this only highlights your ignorance.

Sir Clifford GC said:
Maybe the bartercard cup was 10 years too late.

I don't think so. We've been developing players well before the BC Cup came along.

Sir Clifford GC said:
You gotta question the mentallity of the kiwi side on paper they are a superior side to the poms yet they didnt get close to them.

I thought we were superior to both teams, but showed a genuine lack of passion in losing games they should have won.

Sir Clifford GC said:
One thing with some of u kiwis, if aussie bashing or aussie moaning was a sport you would be undisputed world champs.

If our whinging and moaning means that one day your mob plays with a straight bat, then so be it.

Sir Clifford GC said:
Why wasnt NZ league in the position to ask an Australian side to join their comp?

Come on Cliffy, you're not that stupid.

Sir Clifford GC said:
How weak would a NZ test side be if 60-70% of their players didnt have NRL experience.

By my reckoning, we don't beat Australia anymore now than we have in the past. Having NRL experience hasn't helped improve the overall record.

Sir Clifford GC said:
You say what has australia done for the international game, heres a pretty straight forward answer Australia has made NZ stronger by giving their players oportunity to play in the most elite Rugby League competition in the world.

Thanks. Thanks a heap, but what's the point of making us stronger if your clubs don't let our players play for us?

Sir Clifford GC said:
Yet the whingers want to look at the glass being half empty rather than being half full.

Mate, just let our players play. It's not that much to ask.
 

Greenblooded

Juniors
Messages
1,124
The Kiwis were in no way superior as a team than Aussie or GB, they have some great players but get sh*t on in the halves
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,368
Thanks. Thanks a heap, but what's the point of making us stronger if your clubs don't let our players play for us?

Your players?? :lol: :lol:

Thyere not yours, they just happen to be kiwis, that realise that everything is bigger and better in Australia...thats why theyre here.

Like the thousands of other kiwis that piss off and come over here, wghere its BETTER.

Accept it lil neighbor :lol:
 

Misty Bee

First Grade
Messages
7,082
According to the Kiwis on this thread, it's as if their entire nation is prevented from playing!

Can someone provide the meagre list of players somehow 'prevented' from playing in the tri nations? And don't give reasons like 'someone made them have an operation', because that was a common ocurrence with Australian players as well in the last 2 tours (last year especially) and we still won.

Bottom line, if NZ relies on Australia to provide fulltime income for football players, what does that say about New Zealand's efforts in international RL? I can recall the time when Kiwi internationals filled our reserve grade sides (remember Olsen Filipaina???). Now we have given opportunity to become regular first graders at least. How many Aussie clubs have taken Kiwi juniors and made them internationals? Hell, we even provided you with a bloody TEST CAPTAIN!!!!!!

New Zealand rugby league, without the Warriors, is about as strong as France!
 

rugged

Juniors
Messages
2,415
Bottom line, if NZ relies on Australia to provide fulltime income for football players, what does that say about New Zealand's efforts in international RL?

It could also be asked what it says about NSW teams that can't find enough talent in their own ranks and they have to go across the Tasman and to QLD. There obviously deserves to be more teams of NZers and QLDers!
 

Misty Bee

First Grade
Messages
7,082
rugged said:
Bottom line, if NZ relies on Australia to provide fulltime income for football players, what does that say about New Zealand's efforts in international RL?

It could also be asked what it says about NSW teams that can't find enough talent in their own ranks and they have to go across the Tasman and to QLD. There obviously deserves to be more teams of NZers and QLDers!

Big difference. We are not disputing the talent of someplayers from NZ. We ARE disputing their governing bodies ability to supply them with an income. Who can blame Aussie clubs if they are well run?
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,368
rugged said:
Bottom line, if NZ relies on Australia to provide fulltime income for football players, what does that say about New Zealand's efforts in international RL?

It could also be asked what it says about NSW teams that can't find enough talent in their own ranks and they have to go across the Tasman and to QLD. There obviously deserves to be more teams of NZers and QLDers!

Well.............what are you waiting for?
 

Front-Rower

First Grade
Messages
5,297
:lol: :lol: :lol: Its always the fault of the bigger, stronger nation isn't it?

Australia had the guts to go out and create a PROFESSIONAL competition and run it soo well that people from other countries wanted/want to come and play in it. Who can blame them.

Some of the comments in this post are laughable. Why should Australia look after the other BIG 3 nations (NZ, GB and France). Lets put it this way, does the ACB help out the ECB because they haven't won an ASHES series in 16 years :lol:

If NZ had a professional league run by professionals and if the clubs in the RFL now Super League didn't buy so many aussies and kiwis maybe they could develop their own talent and provide higher standard players at Test level.

The ARL/NRL should not have to look after the interests of any other body except its own. A strong and full time world goverening body ala the IOC, IRB, ICC, FIFA is needed but in reality no one cares about the international game because club football, and thats all this game is about nowadays generates far more CASH.
 

Kiwipanther

Juniors
Messages
474
lol

First off compairing league to Union in NZ is like compairing Table Tennis to Rugby League in Australia.

In the Waikato we fought hard for a local school comp, most of us were either forced to play union or had to travel to Auckland to play. It's not until this year a comp was established, the NZRL is busting their ass to develope the game however they are facing an up hill battle. I hate to say it but union crap all over league in developement terms. The NRL is hardly a national comp, and internationals (opps I mean 3 nations) is a joke. I keep saying it but we need a international body to take the game to the next step.
 
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