What has happened to halfbacks?

[Magpies Forever]

Was just pondering - it has commented on quite regularly that there is a dearth of good halfbacks around. What has happened with the recent years of league to cause the demise of good halfbacks (quantitatively)?

Has the style of play changed? YES, but..............
Has the responsibilities of the role changed? NO (not to my knowledge anyway).

I cant see why the thinking, guiding halfback has suddenly become such a scarce item. I know not everyone can be star quality but it seems now we have a few stars and then a couple of solid players then fill ins.

I know ESL, RU etc can poach players off NRL but the numbers seem to indicate a deeper malaise in halfback development throughout the clubs.

What do you think?

 

[Vic Mackey]

when trent hodkinson is signing a contract of over $250k a season, you know things are scarce in the halfback department

 

[innsaneink]

Mod leagues played its part...forcing the dummy half and first reciever to pass every time, from 9 till 12...then by the time
they get to international its just give it to the big fast bastards

 

[westie]

It's something I'm pretty interested in as it's also happened in the uk. They seem to have kept developing them a little longer than we did, but even now - their class young halves are more like 5/8s. They've still got some good "real" halves running around, but they'll retire soon and there won't really be any left.

 

[blackandwhite]

Was just pondering - it has commented on quite regularly that there is a dearth of good halfbacks around. What has happened with the recent years of league to cause the demise of good halfbacks (quantitatively)?

Has the style of play changed? YES, but..............
Has the responsibilities of the role changed? NO (not to my knowledge anyway).

I cant see why the thinking, guiding halfback has suddenly become such a scarce item. I know not everyone can be star quality but it seems now we have a few stars and then a couple of solid players then fill ins.

I know ESL, RU etc can poach players off NRL but the numbers seem to indicate a deeper malaise in halfback development throughout the clubs.

What do you think?

Well my opinion I suppose is the obvious one that most halfbacks are small. They stand in the defensive line and get knocked over by big wide running forwards at a young age.
I have seen some good intelligent halfbacks in the juniors but they are not physically able to tackling a guy twice their size for the whole game.

And that's the game plan run at the small guys...so they either drop out..get dropped...get injured or move to fullback.

 

[macnaz]

I think you are on the right track about size black and white.
Maybe we have to look at the touch football and oztag ranks to find young kids that have had the ability and time to learn all the skills without getting smashed out of the game before they could develope.

 

[Magpies Forever]

Checked out the WT website:

Lui- 178 cm & 94 kg
Moltzen- 185 cm & 86 kg

To contrast the great Tom Raudonikas (from wikipedia stats) was 170 cm & 73 kg.

So halves have been getting bigger to match the players running at them. I tried looking for Gary Freeman's to have the other side of the equation for older style halves from our 2 'old traditional' team greats but wikipedia didnt help with that kind of info.

Still even taking into account, the 'little man' dying out at the NRL level - good big man will always beat a good little man argument, there is still the issue of use of brain, leading team around the park and providing direction and leadership. I'm assuming that should not be limited in bigger players (except maybe boofhead front rowers.... ).

I do think the defensive and tackling skills of many of the smaller players is woeful. Tom Terrific would never shirk tackling an oncoming front rower yet you seem to see many of the little players now not making effective tackles, virtually waving the players past to be tackled by someone else.

 

[rupertpupkin]

Mod leagues played its part...forcing the dummy half and first reciever to pass every time, from 9 till 12...then by the time
they get to international its just give it to the big fast bastards

Well my opinion I suppose is the obvious one that most halfbacks are small. They stand in the defensive line and get knocked over by big wide running forwards at a young age.
I have seen some good intelligent halfbacks in the juniors but they are not physically able to tackling a guy twice their size for the whole game.

And that's the game plan run at the small guys...so they either drop out..get dropped...get injured or move to fullback.

A major shift took place in junior league with the introduction of unlimited interchange. This proved to be a bonus in getting kids into the game almost immediately, with little fitness, but was detrimental in the long run. It turned into a hit up, bargefest. Because there was no real need for endurance, teams could simply run the jumbo kids, off the dummy half, for a few minutes, then replace them with another, off the bench. There was an allowance for more than 4 benchies, in junior, IIRC, but could be wrong on that. In any event, the upshot was that the traditional cost of fielding big, slower, "impact players" was eliminated. With it came a decline in the need for developing the tactical halfback, as not only could they be run over by bigger players (the HB usually must play the 80 mins, the forwards are most often comparitively fresh. Tackling practice can only do so much under these conditions- at least in junior league) but, the emphasis on backline play and kicking mostly evaporated with the introduction of constant, fresh, forward/big player interchange. Similarly, the role of the specialist winger went down the drain. They rarely got the ball. This went on for a few years, even after the limited interchange in FG, unlimited remained the go in junior. At least for awhile, IIRC?

This may not be the sole reason, but it certainly didn't help things. The game needs to return to the 4x reserve only rule. That's just my opinion, of course. But it won't turn around until the bench is limited to 4, one time only, replacements.

 

[madunit]

With the interchange rule allowing essentially 4-6 forwards to stay relatively fresh all game, and having them run at the halves all game, you will find a shift from traditional playmakers at 6 and 7, and having the more stockier utility players there, like Jamie Lyon, Sean Rudder, Greg Bird, Feleti Mateo etc.

Your playmakers will be the hooker and fullback. One up front and one out back. This will lead to wingers and centres being bigger and slower, and more defence oriented and play being moved wide on the 3rd and 4th tackles almost religiously.

To be honest, the rules have been tweaked too much to try and make the game even faster. For 80 odd years, substitutes were minimal. If you were substituted, you weren't allowed back on, and for a long time, you only got substituted if you physically could not carry yourself for the remainder of the game.

A similar type of rule needs to be brought back for the benefit of the game and for the benefit of genuine halves imo.

 

[blackandwhite]

To be honest, the rules have been tweaked too much to try and make the game even faster. For 80 odd years, substitutes were minimal. If you were substituted, you weren't allowed back on, and for a long time, you only got substituted if you physically could not carry yourself for the remainder of the game.

A similar type of rule needs to be brought back for the benefit of the game and for the benefit of genuine halves imo.

I miss the good old days......The best organising halfback coming through our junior ranks ( Balmain + Wests HM & SG Ball ) is a young kid by the name of Billy Kitt. He is a classic organising half back and their isn't many like him. But I am concerned he won't survive.

The other half of the game Defence is a problem for him and most small kids in the front line ...just tackling around the legs isn't good enough in the modern game.

The coach tried different things this year like playing him on the wing in defence..some wingers are as big as forwards these days..not a good idea and his confidence didn't improve when trying to field cross field bombs and being only 165cm. The coach tried starting him on the bench and then coming on 20 min into the game...again not good for the confidence and you still have the defence problem.

Less interchange can only help...but the stupid thing is in the junior rep footy they are still allowed to make up to 12 interchanges. So ever 5 minutes poor Billy has a fresh "person" to run him over and dent that confidence just a little bit more.

 

[madunit]

Well in the old days, there wasn't much emphasis on having forwards running at small blokes, the idea was to make the opposition forwards bust their arses and wear them out and the speedy players and the clever players would exploit them.

Teams don't do this anymore. Forwards as a whole, don't hit the ball up with as much vigour anymore and the tackles aren't as hard as they once were.

You reguarly see back rowers standing out near wingers etc, it's bloody ridiculous.

The modern halfback has to be someone like Andrew Johns defensively. That sort of player is extremely rare to come across. You will see more utility players wearing the 7 in the future and the genuine halfback playing at five-eighth, and genuine play makers at hooker.