What if?

[Eels Dude]

Back then New Zealand was a Mickey Mouse rep team. Today they're on a par with playing Origin.

All those other guys were, at best, fringe rep players at the time.

Hindy played for Australia in the 2000 World Cup, several games at that including the final. Cayless captained NZ in 2000 at the age of 22. Wagon played for QLD in 2001 prior to mid season before we'd even won back to back games. Andrew Ryan was selected for NSW under the same circumstances.

 

[Eels Dude]

Yeah that group of payers did play rep football but the point was in 2001 none were regualr rep players compared to the Knights side. Also out of that group only Hindy, Cayless and maybe Ryan and Lyon become regular rep players. The others only got the odd game here and there.

It was the same for the Knights. None of Buderas, Tahu, Simpson etc had played rep football prior to the 2001 grand final.

 

[Joshuatheeel]

It was the same for the Knights. None of Buderas, Tahu, Simpson etc had played rep football prior to the 2001 grand final.

Mate I am not arguing who had the better side I was just contributing to one of the threads.

But if we are here now - my opinion was Smith "cooked" the side that year just like he did in 2005. Plus add 1998 and 99, out of those 4 years Smith never had a better chance to win a comp, he did have some issues in the halves, but gee we were mentally sh*t in those four years. Those years were mega disappointments. In 98, 99 and 2005 we should have at least made the GF, gee getting flogged 29 to nil against the Cowboys in 2005 was just plan crap (losing fui and hindmarsh didn't help but it was no excuse) - it should never have happened!!!

PS - Knights did have Johns, Davis, Gidley, Kennedy, MacDougall who were all regular reps back then plus add the few you mentioned, gee they should have won the Minor premierhsip that year.

 

[Joshuatheeel]

Hindy played for Australia in the 2000 World Cup, several games at that including the final. Cayless captained NZ in 2000 at the age of 22. Wagon played for QLD in 2001 prior to mid season before we'd even won back to back games. Andrew Ryan was selected for NSW under the same circumstances.

Ryan was first selected in 2002

 

[Eels Dude]

Ryan was first selected in 2002

No i'm sorry mate. He definately played for NSW in 2001.

 

[Eels Dude]

Ryan was first selected in 2002

No i'm sorry mate. He definately played for NSW in 2001. I'd be willing to put a bet on it.

 

[Eels Dude]

Mate I am not arguing who had the better side I was just contributing to one of the threads.

But if we are here now - my opinion was Smith "cooked" the side that year just like he did in 2005. Plus add 1998 and 99, out of those 4 years Smith never had a better chance to win a comp, he did have some issues in the halves, but gee we were mentally sh*t in those four years. Those years were mega disappointments. In 98, 99 and 2005 we should have at least made the GF, gee getting flogged 29 to nil against the Cowboys in 2005 was just plan crap (losing fui and hindmarsh didn't help but it was no excuse) - it should never have happened!!!

PS - Knights did have Johns, Davis, Gidley, Kennedy, MacDougall who were all regular reps back then plus add the few you mentioned, gee they should have won the Minor premierhsip that year.

I know you weren't mate. I was just pointing out a few flaws in your argument.

Agree with you mainly. But I think Brian Smith deserves credit for turning us from contenders for the spoon like we were in the early 90's to regular premiership contenders in the late 90's and early '00s. I think all of us were a lot happier in his term in charge. He just lacked that ability to get us over the finishing line in big games. It's probably something that haunts him. Same goes for Daniel Anderson.

We only lost 4 games in 2001, with Joey missing a quarter of the season the Knights were never going to be a chance of winning the minor premiership.

 

[Joshuatheeel]

No i'm sorry mate. He definately played for NSW in 2001. I'd be willing to put a bet on it.

you sure about that ? check the record books

Stupid me just checked, and you were right.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Hindy played for Australia in the 2000 World Cup, several games at that including the final. Cayless captained NZ in 2000 at the age of 22. Wagon played for QLD in 2001 prior to mid season before we'd even won back to back games. Andrew Ryan was selected for NSW under the same circumstances.

Hindy = established rep player

Cayless = captain of a lower tier rep team

Wagon and Ryan = fringe rep players at the time

 

[Joshuatheeel]

I know you weren't mate. I was just pointing out a few flaws in your argument.

Agree with you mainly. But I think Brian Smith deserves credit for turning us from contenders for the spoon like we were in the early 90's to regular premiership contenders in the late 90's and early '00s. I think all of us were a lot happier in his term in charge. He just lacked that ability to get us over the finishing line in big games. It's probably something that haunts him. Same goes for Daniel Anderson.

We only lost 4 games in 2001, with Joey missing a quarter of the season the Knights were never going to be a chance of winning the minor premiership.

don't get me wrong with Smith, there was a thread here I think in the off-season about who was our best signing over the last twenty years, and in my opinion Brian Smith was - he did a amazing job to get the eels back after a decade of crap. And to be fair he never had that one "special" player maker in the side, but like you said he still couldn't get us over the line in big games.

Also I know there is a lot of what if's but what if Jason Smith was not suspended for the 2000 final series or if we resigned Dymock and Smith for another 2 seasons, as they could have been the difference in 2001 and 02.

Also on Anderson I know we have some differing views on Kearney and the eels performance this year, but I think Anderson was unfairly treated last year and should have been given the final year in his contract to turn around the eels (this is not to say I agree with Anderson's approach)

 

[Eels Dude]

Hindy = established rep player

Cayless = captain of a lower tier rep team

Wagon and Ryan = fringe rep players at the time

They were still rep players mate. Wagon played starting 5'8th for QLD in all 3 games in 2001. Ryan played off the bench for NSW that year even before anybody knew the the hell he was. When he was selected it was like "Andrew Who?". Much like Trent Merrin's selection this year.

 

[Eels Dude]

don't get me wrong with Smith, there was a thread here I think in the off-season about who was our best signing over the last twenty years, and in my opinion Brian Smith was - he did a amazing job to get the eels back after a decade of crap. And to be fair he never had that one "special" player maker in the side, but like you said he still couldn't get us over the line in big games.

Also I know there is a lot of what if's but what if Jason Smith was not suspended for the 2000 final series or if we resigned Dymock and Smith for another 2 seasons, as they could have been the difference in 2001 and 02.

Also on Anderson I know we have some differing views on Kearney and the eels performance this year, but I think Anderson was unfairly treated last year and should have been given the final year in his contract to turn around the eels (this is not to say I agree with Anderson's approach)

I can't argue with any of that mate. You make some really good points most of which I agree with.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

It was the same for the Knights. None of Buderas, Tahu, Simpson etc had played rep football prior to the 2001 grand final.

1. O'Davis - already a regular for Qld and had already played 8 times for Australia. 1997 premiership winner.
2. Tahu - went on to become a NSW regular. Also played 5 times for Australia.
3. Gidley - already a regular for NSW and Australia.
4. Hughes - played 3 games for NSW that year and won the 1997 premiership.
5. MacDougall - already a NSW regular and had also played for Australia. 1997 premiership winner.
6. Rudder - genuine nuffy.
7. Johns - already the best player in the world at this time. Had achieved everything in the game.
8. Perry - went on to play a couple of games for NSW and Australia.
9. Buderus - went on to play 20+ games for both NSW and Australia.
10. Parsons - genuine nuffy.
11. Simpson - went on to become a NSW regular and also played a few games for Australia.
12. Kennedy - already a regular for NSW and Australia.
13. Peden - genuine nuffy. 1997 premiership winner.

14. Abraham - genuine nuffy.
15. Marquet - genuine nuffy. 1999 premiership winner.
16. Grief - genuine nuffy.
17. O'Brien - had played 2 games for Qld.

I count 5 regular Origin players, 3 guys who went on to become Origin regulars, one best player in the world, and 6 former premiership winners.

How do the '01 Eels stack up against that?

One Origin regular (Vella), 3 future Origin regulars (Lyon, Hindmarsh, Ryan), one Kiwi regular (Cayless) and one future Kiwi regular (Solomona). Solomona was also the only player in our team who had played in a grand final.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

They were still rep players mate.

They weren't the kind of rep players that count. If they're not regular rep players then they're fringe rep players, meaning they got into the rep team (over up to a dozen other guys just as good) because they happened to be playing in a good team.

There's Origin players (Hayne, Gallen, most of the Queensland team) and then there's guys who have played some Origin (Brett Finch, Brett White, Brett Morris).

I put it to you there are plenty of guys who will never play Origin who are as good as these three. Hence they don't count as rep players for comparing team lineups.

 

[Eels Dude]

1. O'Davis - already a regular for Qld and had already played 8 times for Australia. 1997 premiership winner.
2. Tahu - went on to become a NSW regular. Also played 5 times for Australia.
3. Gidley - already a regular for NSW and Australia.
4. Hughes - played 3 games for NSW that year and won the 1997 premiership.
5. MacDougall - already a NSW regular and had also played for Australia. 1997 premiership winner.
6. Rudder - genuine nuffy.
7. Johns - already the best player in the world at this time. Had achieved everything in the game.
8. Perry - went on to play a couple of games for NSW and Australia.
9. Buderus - went on to play 20+ games for both NSW and Australia.
10. Parsons - genuine nuffy.
11. Simpson - went on to become a NSW regular and also played a few games for Australia.
12. Kennedy - already a regular for NSW and Australia.
13. Peden - genuine nuffy. 1997 premiership winner.

14. Abraham - genuine nuffy.
15. Marquet - genuine nuffy. 1999 premiership winner.
16. Grief - genuine nuffy.
17. O'Brien - had played 2 games for Qld.

I count 5 regular Origin players, 3 guys who went on to become Origin regulars, one best player in the world, and 6 former premiership winners.

How do the '01 Eels stack up against that?

One Origin regular (Vella), 3 future Origin regulars (Lyon, Hindmarsh, Ryan), one Kiwi regular (Cayless) and one future Kiwi regular (Solomona). Solomona was also the only player in our team who had played in a grand final.

I forgot about Solomona but thanks for bringing him up.

Hodgson - NSW
Moodie - NSW
Lyon - NSW/ AUS
Vaealiki - NZ
Taylor - NSW
Buettner - NSW
Vella - NSW/ AUS
Cayless - QLD
Wagon - QLD
Hindmarsh - NSW/ AUS
Wagon - QLD
Solomona - NZ
Ryan - NSW/ AUS

Let's face it that's a pretty impressive rep list.

 

[BranVan3000]

You guys are setting yourselves up for disappointment overhyping Chrissy so much

If he was the player you all think Souths would be far more dominant

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I forgot about Solomona but thanks for bringing him up.

Hodgson - NSW
Moodie - NSW
Lyon - NSW/ AUS
Vaealiki - NZ
Taylor - NSW
Buettner - NSW
Vella - NSW/ AUS
Cayless - QLD
Wagon - QLD
Hindmarsh - NSW/ AUS
Wagon - QLD
Solomona - NZ
Ryan - NSW/ AUS

Let's face it that's a pretty impressive rep list.

Most of them fringe players - Finch-like in quality.

And dumbing it down to the categories of rep/non-rep makes Moodie (NSW) as valuable to a team as Johns (NSW), which in 2001 we saw wasn't the case.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

You guys are setting yourselves up for disappointment overhyping Chrissy so much

If he was the player you all think Souths would be far more dominant

He's not the right player for Souths. You guys have too many attacking stars and not enough workers. So you waste him in atack and struggle to carry him in defence.

We've got loads of workers and only one star, so Sandow can have as much ball as he likes and we'll also be able to hide him defensively.

He's just a better fit for Parra. It's good that both clubs and Sandow will be happy next year. It's a win-win-win situation. Thanks.

 

[Eels Dude]

You guys are setting yourselves up for disappointment overhyping Chrissy so much

If he was the player you all think Souths would be far more dominant

No one has said. But good luck with John Sutton. It's always handy playing a backrower in the halves. That takes you forward.

 

[The EELiminator]

You guys are setting yourselves up for disappointment overhyping Chrissy so much

If he was the player you all think Souths would be far more dominant

its not overhype compared to what we have now all he has to do is find the grass with his kicks one set out of three and he will be going better than robson and mortimer