What is needed?

[Joshuatheeel]

no. i think having having hayne in the team and fixing our defence would make us a top 8 team.

shitty defence has been our biggest problem this year. when we concede heaps of tries by default we concede heaps of possession. makes it harder to score points and tires the side so they are more prone to defensive lapses.

our attack seems significantly better than it was the first half of the season, and realistically, how often does a side score five tries and lose? i don't think it happens that often.

Only when we play the tigers is five tries not enough - gee it has happen twice to us this year against them

 

[Tooooks]

We desperately need more size in our pack. We have no one (apart from Moimoi and maybe Mannah) who can really bend the line.

I'm pretty certain we have the smallest starting pack in the comp, at 595kg (99kg each). Interestingly, we're also a fairly short pack, at 185cm a player.

I looked at a typical starting pack for each of the top 4 clubs:

Bulldogs
628kg (104kg each)
avg height 185cm

Souths
645kg (107kg)
avg height 188cm

Storm
615kg (102kg)
avg height 188cm

Manly
623kg (103kg)
avg height 186cm

Is it any wonder we're losing the forward battle and getting steamrolled week after week? You can't lay a platform for the backs without a pack of solid forwards.

 

[Delboy]

Toooks, the previous recruitment manager never believed in size or speed, it was always about skill ( so he said).

Will take a few years to remedy it, even now I look at the U20s and they are not as big as I would like,

 

[Tooooks]

Toooks, the previous recruitment manager never believed in size or speed, it was always about skill ( so he said).

Will take a few years to remedy it, even now I look at the U20s and they are not as big as I would like,

Crazy, isn't it? Like it's not possible to have skill AND size AND speed.

 

[spiderdan]

We desperately need more size in our pack. We have no one (apart from Moimoi and maybe Mannah) who can really bend the line.

I'm pretty certain we have the smallest starting pack in the comp, at 595kg (99kg each). Interestingly, we're also a fairly short pack, at 185cm a player.

I looked at a typical starting pack for each of the top 4 clubs:

Bulldogs
628kg (104kg each)
avg height 185cm

Souths
645kg (107kg)
avg height 188cm

Storm
615kg (102kg)
avg height 188cm

Manly
623kg (103kg)
avg height 186cm

Is it any wonder we're losing the forward battle and getting steamrolled week after week? You can't lay a platform for the backs without a pack of solid forwards.

the size of the pack isn't the issue, it's what is happening at the point of collision that makes the difference, as well as the playing style used by the forwards. there's no sense comparing the height and weight to other starting packs the way you have given that a 185cm/99kg player would more than likely be able to generate the same force at collision as a 188cm/102kg player that was playing the same position. shorter players (without getting too short) are harder to bring down because of their lower centre of gravity and smaller hitting zone (not to say there aren't also advantages to having height and longer limbs).

 

[spiderdan]

Only when we play the tigers is five tries not enough - gee it has happen twice to us this year against them

yep so what was the problem? i'd say our defence.

 

[spiderdan]

Crazy, isn't it? Like it's not possible to have skill AND size AND speed.

if you could find an effective player that is the fastest, heaviest, strongest and most skilful i reckon you would have the most dominant league player ever. i reckon $bw probably comes as close to the ideal mix of those of any player i have ever seen play.

 

[IFR33K]

So you honestly think having Hayne in the team would all of a sudden make them a top 8 team?

You're almost there. Well done.

 

[Maroubra Eel]

Well we did try to fix the problem. This year we reportedly went after a whole heap of quality forwards. It's just we couldn't entice any to come.

 

[Tooooks]

if you could find an effective player that is the fastest, heaviest, strongest and most skilful i reckon you would have the most dominant league player ever. i reckon $bw probably comes as close to the ideal mix of those of any player i have ever seen play.

Agreed. I'm not talking about the fastest, most skillful, biggest etc though. I'm saying it's possible to have a player with all three attributes.

 

[Gronk]

We desperately need more size in our pack. We have no one (apart from Moimoi and maybe Mannah) who can really bend the line.

I'm pretty certain we have the smallest starting pack in the comp, at 595kg (99kg each). Interestingly, we're also a fairly short pack, at 185cm a player.

I looked at a typical starting pack for each of the top 4 clubs:

Bulldogs
628kg (104kg each)
avg height 185cm

Souths
645kg (107kg)
avg height 188cm

Storm
615kg (102kg)
avg height 188cm

Manly
623kg (103kg)
avg height 186cm

Is it any wonder we're losing the forward battle and getting steamrolled week after week? You can't lay a platform for the backs without a pack of solid forwards.

Kearney was ahead of him time. It's a shame that you idiot fans lynched him before his systems fell into place.

#wellthatswhatpoureckonsanyway

 

[Maroubra Eel]

Kearney was ahead of him time. It's a shame that you idiot fans lynched him before his systems fell into place.

#wellthatswhatpoureckonsanyway

Yes all us stupid fans and the stupid board have got it all wrong.
The only ones smart enough to know what's going on are Poupou, his cheerleader, and Kearney.

 

[Tooooks]

the size of the pack isn't the issue, it's what is happening at the point of collision that makes the difference, as well as the playing style used by the forwards. there's no sense comparing the height and weight to other starting packs the way you have given that a 185cm/99kg player would more than likely be able to generate the same force at collision as a 188cm/102kg player that was playing the same position. shorter players (without getting too short) are harder to bring down because of their lower centre of gravity and smaller hitting zone (not to say there aren't also advantages to having height and longer limbs).

I'd have to disagree with you that the size of the pack doesn't matter, although I agree there's little point in comparing the avg size of a player (I did it just to illustrate the overall size difference of the wooden spooners vs the top 4 sides). All the top sides have at least one big impact backrower (T.Williams, Manu, Taylor, Pritchard). We have poor old Hindy and Ben 'Penalty Magnet' Smith.

Size certainly isn't everything, I agree. We simply don't have a quality pack all round, and losing Hindmarsh and gaining two rookies from Manly isn't going to help much.

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

We desperately need more size in our pack. We have no one (apart from Moimoi and maybe Mannah) who can really bend the line.

I'm pretty certain we have the smallest starting pack in the comp, at 595kg (99kg each). Interestingly, we're also a fairly short pack, at 185cm a player.

I looked at a typical starting pack for each of the top 4 clubs:

Bulldogs
628kg (104kg each)
avg height 185cm

Souths
645kg (107kg)
avg height 188cm

Storm
615kg (102kg)
avg height 188cm

Manly
623kg (103kg)
avg height 186cm

Is it any wonder we're losing the forward battle and getting steamrolled week after week? You can't lay a platform for the backs without a pack of solid forwards.

Not a lot of point counting the weight of the hooker (or as you've said simply adding up weights).....but if it's weight people want then Lussick is 110kgs.

I have no problems with the size of our U20s pack (this year). Some of the backs maybe...

 

[Tooooks]

Not a lot of point counting the weight of the hooker (or as you've said simply adding up weights).....but if it's weight people want then Lussick is 110kgs.

I have no problems with the size of our U20s pack (this year). Some of the backs maybe...

Yeah I agree. The hooker size is fairly irrelevant, but like I said earlier, was just showing overall size out of interest.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I am a bit disappointed that we seem to have neglected recruitment in that area, we fall short of most teams from the poor retention of the past.

The problem is we have had a few older forwards on big money, and so we couldn't replace them until they were gone or signed smaller deals. That's next year for Hindy, Fui, Poore and Shack. Until they were gone there was no point having two sets of forwards on big money.

Unfortunately because we suck, we haven't been able to sign the forwards we need, other than Lussick and Harrison. Lussick will add plenty to our pack, and Harrison is currently behind an all-representative back row at Manly so he is potentially good enough to play every game for us next year.

Hopefully Allgood and Terepo can step up for us in 2013. Both big lads.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Honestly, Ben Smith is a penalty just waiting for an excuse to make itself known.

He rarely runs the ball either (whether through the middle or out wide). I'm not sold on him as a first grader....

Matt Ryan looks "ok" - he has potential, but looks like the kind of kid who will need 20 more games to get used to the 'level'.
Maitua looks "ok" as an edge runner. He looked a little frantic last night, trying to push passes, but overall he's a keeper.
Paulo is a handy bench guy, but never a starter. Has good size, footwork and skill and can come on after 25 minutes to bring some 'spark' to the contest.

What we're really lacking is that 'big unit' type player. Someone who can bend the line back (whether from prop forward or otherwise). And also someone who can bring a bit of sting in defence (without giving away a penalty BSmith).

I think our back row is average, with good depth (i.e. two teams worth of average players). We don't have an edge forward battering ram, but few teams do, and those guys tend to be defensive liabilities anyway.

Our back row will go fine behind better props, which is why Ben Smith gives away so many penalties. He knows we need to slow down the opposition ruck, but he treads too fine a line trying to achieve that. He has real strengths, but muscling up isn't one of them, even though he hits (opposition backs) very very hard.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

(not to say there aren't also advantages to having height and longer limbs).

Like stopping offloads and winning the wrestle.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

We simply don't have a quality pack all round, and losing Hindmarsh and gaining two rookies from Manly isn't going to help much.

It will add plenty to our size and strength.

Hindy's a smart player with a big motor, but he's well below average for strength and power. Lussick and Harrison will improve us in those areas, which is where we are lacking.

 

[hindy111]

Spot on poupou...
I think our forwards are very average and yes we are full off squad players where there all good enough to play the grade but none are better than the rest.