When to expand?

[Quidgybo]

That's a good question for another thread: Should the new Media Money be directed towards a national reserves competition?

Not if it is just a retread of the NRL. Any new 2nd tier or "reserves" comp must do more than just provide a place to play 10 or so surplus professional players per club. We simply don't need a third NRL based comp to meet that need. If we're going to spend the money flying another 16 or 18 teams around the country (and travel will be by far the major expense) then in addition to meeting our surplus player needs, it should be used to provide a place for all those areas that do not have an NRL team of their own. Either because they are working towards NRL entry (eg. Wellington), they are not yet big enough (eg. Mackay), or because they can no longer compete at the top level (eg. Newtown).

Leigh.

 

[Alex28]

They need to expand when there is sufficient player talent to warrant it. Right now there is barely enough quality talent to go across 16 clubs, let alone 18.

 

[Perth Red]

Not this old chestnut again. There is plenty of talent, we just don't have the money at the moment to keep it/attract it to the NRL. With a $6mill salary cap that will be rectified. After 100 years how exactly do you think the game is going to get more talent?

 

[docbrown]

Not if it is just a retread of the NRL. Any new 2nd tier or "reserves" comp must do more than just provide a place to play 10 or so surplus professional players per club. We simply don't need a third NRL based comp to meet that need. If we're going to spend the money flying another 16 or 18 teams around the country (and travel will be by far the major expense) then in addition to meeting our surplus player needs, it should be used to provide a place for all those areas that do not have an NRL team of their own. Either because they are working towards NRL entry (eg. Wellington), they are not yet big enough (eg. Mackay), or because they can no longer compete at the top level (eg. Newtown).

Leigh.

* All NRL teams affiliate with a regional of league or a group of teams within a league that cover their area. By doing this the idea is to ensure that all QLD, NSW, ACT, VIC, WA & NZ are covered.
* For example - Knights could cover the Newcastle League, Raiders could cover the Riverina League, Reds - WARL, Storm - VRL etc
* NRL players kicked to "reserve grade" would play for their nominated team within that league. Those teams can use that promotion. The local teams can benefit from their professional experience
* All the major derby games from within those league would be broadcast in a manner similar to Americal Football "bowls" with a focus on community days. You can get at least 50 of those from within these competitions - enough to fill a yearly broadcast schedule on a digital channel like OneHD or ABC 2 on a Saturday afternoon.
* The Grand Finals of those regional leagues are decided late August/early September
* In September, the 18-20 regions + Pacific Island winners would play off in a Challenge Cup knockout style format with the top two clubs playing in a cup game on the eve of the NRL grand final
* The only major travel is at the end of the year knockout finals. Other than, all games are localised.
* All games through out the season are promoted under the one unifying banner - like MAJOR RUGBY LEAGUE or something like that

 

[Quidgybo]

To answer the original question. When to expand...

1. After you've identified strategic target areas you want to expand to - there's no point wasting an expansion license in an area you're not looking to expand to just because there's a good bid.
2. After all options for reaching the area through relocation have been exhausted - it will always be preferable to achieve expansion through optimising distribution of existing licenses before commiting to a permanent increase in the number of mouths to feed.
3. After all government concessions have been maximised - an expansion license is a strong bargaining chip in getting governments to build and improve stadiums and most of that bargaining power disappears the moment the license is awarded.
4. After the bids in the target areas are ready - if the bids in the areas we want to expand to need a couple of more years then better to wait until they are ready rather than force them in early or accept a bid from an area we're not looking to expand to.

Leigh

 

[Alex28]

Not this old chestnut again. There is plenty of talent, we just don't have the money at the moment to keep it/attract it to the NRL. With a $6mill salary cap that will be rectified. After 100 years how exactly do you think the game is going to get more talent?

If the pound being worth half as much these days as it did 3 years ago isn't keeping the talent in Australia, an extra $2 Million in the salary cap isn't going to do it either. Lets face it - right now in the NRL there is probably 13 or 14 full squads worth of genuine NRL quality players with 2 or 3 squads worth of players scattered throughout the squads who will only last a few years before being found out as not up to it.

Might not suit your argument, but it doesn't mean it isn't right. Adding another 2 teams to dilute the quality of the comp isn't going to work long-term. TV isn't going to pay more for a weaker competition.

 

[Perth Red]

But we have more jnrs than ever playing the game so why isn't the talent coming through and how will that change in the next 5-10 years? Reality is the pound to $ and tax loophole closing will make a differnce, add in an extra $2mill to give players the extra $50k or so they can earn in SL compared to what they are earning in the NRL and the talent drift will cease up. Throw in the very real potential of cherry picking some very good Union talent from NZ, Oz and England plus English SL players who can make the grade here and increase playing numbers in the expansion area dramatically and it will not be as big an issue as some think it is.

 

[CC_Roosters]

Does give an existing Sydney club time to reconsider and initiate negotiations for a relocation if 2015 is the date.

Why a Sydney club struggling for bums on seats and with plenty of money wouldn't consider having two home bases in theory is beyond me.

Gallop has specifically said any sydney club relocating will be a full relocation or not at all.

I cant see any club considering relocation until they see how they will benefit from any increase in the revenue the game receives.

 

[Scarves]

I'd expand tomorrow... if we could keep the competition at 16 clubs. 4th (and best credentialed) Qld team, Central Coast and Perth all deserve representation but 16 teams should be the competition number. Thinning out the competition would be detrimental to both the standard of the competition and the closeness of the competition. From memory there were only two games where teams had 50+ points posted against them, that's enough and it's a fantastic sign our comp is riding a wave.

 

[Perth Red]

If we had the money what RU players are currently running around that could make it in the NRL?

 

[Matchball]

Give Darwin a team and i am willing to bet they will find some amazing talent amongst the Aboriginal community.

 

[Perth Red]

Likewise in the Nth of WA. There is a decent strength league up there already and I am sure Twiggy Forest would love to put some $'s behind developing aboriginal health through RL programmes.

I don't get the 50point blow out concern. You could argue that it might water down the comp as a whole but surely the salary cap will ensure that teams remain even much more than limiting the number of teams?

As I said throw in a much bigger salary cap and you start to be able to attract new talent from RU and English RL to add greater strength to the player depth. If League ever gets its act together in creating more pathwways from PNG and the Islands we also open up a massive talent pool. The talent is out there we just need a better model to scout it and develop it.

 

[bobmar28]

If the pound being worth half as much these days as it did 3 years ago isn't keeping the talent in Australia, an extra $2 Million in the salary cap isn't going to do it either. Lets face it - right now in the NRL there is probably 13 or 14 full squads worth of genuine NRL quality players with 2 or 3 squads worth of players scattered throughout the squads who will only last a few years before being found out as not up to it.

Might not suit your argument, but it doesn't mean it isn't right. Adding another 2 teams to dilute the quality of the comp isn't going to work long-term. TV isn't going to pay more for a weaker competition.

Didn't they just do that by paying AFL 1.4 billion?

 

[Baron Vo Mandor]

TV Deal with Perth = More money
Tv Deal without Perth = Less money

Why waste time?

Bring them in with the new tv deal.

Not necessarily, TV companies want competitive match's each and every game, and it could be argued its in their best interest to get all the teams financially viable and competitive before worrying about tacking on extra teams.

 

[Noa]

If we have to wait till 2015 Id bring in another NZ team as well. Perth, Brisbane and Wellington for me. At the very least Wellington has to have a NYC team competing by then as a forerunner to a team entering the comp from about 2017/18.

 

[POPEYE]

If a team relocates to Perth it has to be for good. No half half stuff. They need to be part of the community and build a rapport with the fans. Can't have a Perth team playing half their games at Cronulla.

You are right but I wasn't thinking of it like that . . . more like relocating without alienating original supporters by including them in future fanfare and maybe a couple of games a year.

 

[Quidgybo]

If we have to wait till 2015 Id bring in another NZ team as well. Perth, Brisbane and Wellington for me. At the very least Wellington has to have a NYC team competing by then as a forerunner to a team entering the comp from about 2017/18.

They won't bring a team into the NYC and not into the premiership. The whole point of the NYC is to mirror the premiership draw and prepare the next generation for a career as a professional rugby league star by having them train, travel, lodge, and play around the established stars. The option open for aspiring expansion locations is a team in a second tier or junior comp like the Reds are doing.

Leigh.

 

[Noa]

That's a good question for another thread: Should the new Media Money be directed towards a national reserves competition?

No, we dont need one, and the cost to teams would be prohibitive. Id just improve the current "farm leagues" to use a yank term, by helping to upgrade facilities and such, let the QLD teams use the Q-cup and the rest use the NSWRL cup. There is actually not too much wrong with the structure now, its just that squad sizes are too small to allow teams to have solid vets and journeymen in their top 25 so they have to throw NYC players into first grade before they're ready. And thats when the angst starts.

 

[Noa]

They won't bring a team into the NYC and not in to the premiership. The whole point of the NYC is to mirror the premiership draw and prepare the next generation for a career as a professional rugby league star by having them train, travel, lodge, and play around the established stars. The option open for aspiring expansion locations is a team in a second tier or junior comp like the Reds are doing.

Leigh.

Who's too know what the new IC would do. But I dont see why the NYC comp should mirror exactly the NRL comp anyway, personally Id have them in divisions, but thats another argument. The benefits of having an NYC team come into the comp a few years before the top team, and this would work for Perth or a 2nd Brisbane team as well, is it would allow them too tie up promising young juniors a few years before they come into the comp. Then when the top teams come in they have a ready made pool of young players ready to be first graders..... hopefully.

 

[applesauce]

Give Darwin a team and i am willing to bet they will find some amazing talent amongst the Aboriginal community.

Just make any PNG players exempt from the cap (5 per club). Watch the NRL talent scouts go develop the best kids PNG has to offer, give them and education and strengthen the international game.

Adding 2 new teams gives us an estimated $12million extra dollars (if the cap goes to about $6mill) plus $2million*the current 16 clubs.

More than enough to get some players from rugby, ESL and entice a fresh crop of junior talent to the NRL.

Not that big a deal...