Where should the next NZ NRL team be?

[flippikat]

Picking up from an off-topic point in the Jets thread..

In the past, ARL/NRL bids have been from Wellington - The Dolphins in the mid '90s, and more recently the Orcas.

But I made the point in the other thread that Christchurch would also be a strong candidate city for a team, given their long-established sporting rivalry with Auckland.

As I see it, the options are pretty much these:

* A second Auckland team
VERY hard to see this happen, but you never know - they have a large & growing population. Difficult to see where a new club could position itself against the Warriors.

* Hamilton
Now this shows some promise - a club based here would basically encompass the Waikato province, and the Bay of Plenty.
They have a good rectangular stadium in Waikato too, seating about 25,000.
Perhaps playing the odd game in Rotorua (a top tourist destination) or Tauranga (a city that's quickly growing, out on the bay) to include the wider region

* Wellington
Great modern stadium facilities (36,000 capacity), but the stadium DOES get a lot of use.. can an NRL season be fit-in as well?
Still, this city is a strong centre of population, and geographically it's central too - with a 'Hurricanes' type model, taking games out to the cities of Napier, Palmerston North, and New Plymouth it could be a great regional club.

* Christchurch
Second most populated city in New Zealand, recently upgraded stadium for the world cup (36,000 capacity as well), and a hard-wired rivalry with any Auckland sports teams.
A Christchurch bid would be well advised to include other parts of the country, to spread the RL gospel - perhaps playing the odd game at Dunedin's new covered stadium which will seat about 30,000 when it opens later this year.. or further south to Invercargill if they want to treat the Cowboys to some deep-south weather in July

Being a Wellingtonian, I'd love to see a team here.. but although my heart says Wellington, my head suggests Christchurch might be a stronger proposition if they get a bid up and running!

It'll be interesting to see what people here think - as I reckon a 2nd NZ team is going to be a strong candidate for expansion towards the end of this decade.

PS: I dunno how to set-up a poll.. but if someone would like to make one, that would be handy - thanks!

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

While I think NZ deserve another team, it wont be for a little while. With the way Sky has things covered in NZ, there isn't as much competition for products.

Wellington and Christchurch, while both are much smaller then say Adelaide, are more likely to accept a Rugby League team.

Id like to see them in by 2020, but I think the push would need to come from the NZRL.

 

[bobmar28]

Both cities have about the same population (just under 400,000) so my vote would be for the city with the best bid.

 

[flippikat]

While I think NZ deserve another team, it wont be for a little while. With the way Sky has things covered in NZ, there isn't as much competition for products.

Wellington and Christchurch, while both are much smaller then say Adelaide, are more likely to accept a Rugby League team.

Id like to see them in by 2020, but I think the push would need to come from the NZRL.

For sure, the NZRL needs to be involved, and the next team needs to be a regional team - just because the NZ population is so spread out.

The next-biggest cities after Auckland are a huge step-down in population size and density.

Although it may play the majority of it's home games in one city, and be based in that city, there needs to be an outreach to other centres - and that includes taking the odd home game out to Dunedin or Rotorua or Napier - So long as it doesn't totally undermine season-ticket holders, it shouldn't be a problem.

The other side of the coin is that the Warriors may need a final rebranding.

I'm in favour of renaming them the Auckland Warriors, much as how the Queensland Roar became the Brisbane Roar when North Qld & Gold Coast joined the A-League. I'd also go for a strip that's blue, white & black (blue & white being Auckland's rep colours, with black added to distinguish from the Bulldogs)

 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Get 'em all in! NZ would be an absolute powerhouse of the game then.

Seriously though, maybe not this up coming bid, but the next bid HAS to involve another NZ team. If we don't take advantage of NZ's success ASAP, we may miss the boat. There is a gold mine of players there, and with NRL and SL struggling to produce the depth of players needed to expand the competition to a decent standard, we certainly need as many players being produced as possible.

 

[Drax]

I dont see another NZ team coming in any time soon..

Why doesnt the NZ Warriors take home games to Wellington and Christchurch?

 

[BuffaloRules]

Here is an article from November last year with the Wellington RL CEO regarding Expansion...

Some of the key points...

http://www.footyfootyfooty.com/2010/11/interview-with-wellington-rl-ceo-jason.html

FFF: So you are confident that rugby league is strong enough in terms of junior player base in New Zealand right now to sustain two NRL teams?

JH: I definitely believe there is. Already in this season I’ve got four or five kids that are on their way to NRL clubs for trials and scholarships and that type of thing. I think by having a second NRL team will only strengthen that.

It means that those kids that are tossing up between rugby and league now have another option. At the moment only rugby has that professional pathway for them with a strong domestic competition so it’s easier for kids to choose that. Having another NRL club on the doorstep would make rugby league more attractive to these kids.

Our numbers are growing here in Wellington. It’s certainly growing in Christchurch as well. It’s probably going to be another three or four years until we see a huge increase in numbers from the things put in place by NZRL. Just here in Wellington we’ve enjoyed success in the last 18-24 months in terms of the competitions that we run in raising the profile of RL as a sport, as a pathway, as an opportunity for kids. We’ve also been pretty lucky here in Wellington in that we’ve had a number of ex-NRL players come back and be able to put something back into the game locally and also provide those pathway links to NRL clubs. The likes of Johnny Lomax, David Lomax, other ex-NRL players who have been here and enabled us to open pathways.

FFF: You mentioned Christchurch. Are you going to be working as closely with them as the old ‘Southern Orcas’ bid did?

JH: Most definitely. There haven’t been any major discussions with them down there at the moment, [although] we touched based with them 2 years ago when we first looked at getting this off the ground. That’s definitely part of the plan, given the success of the Roosters game played down their earlier this year. Most times that RL has been played down there its been very well supported, and they’ve got a fairly big catchment area down there.

Definitely the plan would be to play 3 and 4 games a season outside of Wellington. I’d imagine that two of those would be in Christchurch, perhaps one in Dunedin, which will have the new enclosed stadium, and another one in the North Island near Taranaki.

FFF: What feedback have you had from the NRL?

JH: There’s been nothing put forward to them at this stage. The last conversation I had with Graham Annesley was about 12 months ago. Prior to that I had indicated to him that we were looking to put a bid together, just wanting to find out the major areas of concern they would have.

I had a year over with the Titans in 2007, working for one of their major sponsors, so I spent a bit of time around Michael Searle and got to find out the ins and outs of the success of their bid. The NRL had initially said no to the Gold Coast, but Michael wouldn’t take no for an answer. He kept going back. The bottom line from what Graham Annesley was look, if you make the case so compelling that we can’t ignore it in terms of income for the NRL and growing the game and viewership, then it would be very hard to say no to a bid that brought all those things to the table.

Whether the criteria for us here in Wellington is the same criteria they had for the Gold Coast… it’s probably going to be a little bit different. The Gold Coast criteria would have had a lot to do with dollars in the bank, given that an NRL team had failed there three times before. They didn’t have a stadium, they didn’t have infrastructure there, so that was another thing they needed to tick off. One big thing they did have was the growth of rugby league in the area of the junior numbers. Once they were able to satisfy all of those [other] things, I think it was no doubt they were ready to put a team there. At that time the Gold Coast had matured enough as a city in its own right to be able to maintain a team and I think if you have a look at the history of the Titans it’s been well worth it and they’ve been vindicated for putting a team there.

For us in Wellington, we don’t have the pure numbers in terms of juniors that perhaps the Gold Coast do. But it wouldn’t just be based on Wellington. It would be based on a larger catchment area, so if you had a look at that you’re talking 1.5 million people, which is a lot bigger in terms of when you’re talking about some of the other bids. So our junior numbers do stack up in those terms. We’ve got the infrastructure here in terms of a major stadium which would be Westpac, so the only stumbling block we’ve got at the moment would be the dollars, the money in the bank. I’m more than confident that we’d be able to get that across the line if there was a timeframe for expansion put in place. What we have done in the last three or four months is start to crank things up on that side of it, to ensure that when the time does come to put a bid in that we’ve got the money there to substantiate it.

FFF: So you’re viewing the whole South Island as a potential player base?

JH: I think you have to. There are only 4.5 million people in NZ and a third of those live in Auckland. The Greater Wellington area has about half a million people, and if you include the area of Taranaki – which is only a four hour drive – or Hawkes bay –which is a four hour drive; and obviously the south Island – Christchurch is a one hour plane trip – then you’re talking substantial numbers. We’d be looking to get the backing and get the support of all of those.

The Warriors over here are supported by default more than anything outside of Auckland. The bottom line is they are really the Auckland Warriors not the New Zealand Warriors. They don’t do much for the development of the game outside of Auckland, and that’s another reason I believe we need a second team out of NZ to further develop the game and have a professional team responsible for developing the game outside of Auckland.

FFF: Will part of your bid include highlighting the advantages a second team in NZ would have to the NRL in terms of it’s scheduling, offering an additional time zone to broadcasters?

Absolutely, I think that’s one of the big things we do give to them, the ability to have a game in NZ every weekend. What it also does is add another local derby. You can imagine the first game of the season at Westpac stadium against the Warriors – we would fill it out! You put together a number of different scenarios in season draws based on different groupings of teams and local derbys and the NRL seems to be pretty interested in that sort of thing, with the success of the mini QLD derby. I’d see a situation between the Melbourne side and the two New Zealand sides there’d be a little sort of triangle derby going on, given the number of NZ players going through Melbourne and the number of New Zealanders working there. Given the amount of work that Melbourne’s done over here, there’s a really close tie with them.

 

[muzby]

bondi....

 

[kia ora storm]

Wellington...they will attract a lot of the South Island players and will also have a strong junior base with the Wainuiomata club etc always bringing through future stars.

The Storm have picked up a few juniors through holding clinics in Wellington...

 

[morley101]

South Island ... Play home games in Christchurch and Dunedin ( new Stadium being built there too )

 

[LineBall]

I think Christchurch would be great - for the reasons already mentioned. Natuaral rivalry between Auckland and also gives a team on the north and south island.

 

[Wheeled Warrior]

My first choice is Wellington (yes i do live here)
Wellington's main attaction though is how central the stadium is and how easy it is for people to attend the game via public transport. Train station just outside, The Ferry terminal that travels to and from the south island every couple of hours and massive amount of Parking for cars. Not too sure what Christchurch could offer in that department however christchurch also deserves a mention due to the talent pool and population. EIther all I would love to see a 2nd NZ team so the warriors can go back to their original name "Auckland Warriors"

 

[Big Sam]

Christchurch, but only after expansion into new Australian markets has been completed.

 

[Red Bear]

There is not much RL at all around Christchurch, very much a Union city I would say

 

[Fast Eddie]

They would pretty quickley get behind a team I'd say. Look at the urn out for the Roosters vs Warriors in absolutely terrible conditions last season. Will be interesting to see the crowd for the ANZAC test this year there.

 

[dimitri]

The Aus v NZ test will be in Christchurch - this year so will be really interesting to see the crowd they get! if theres another massive crowd, it cant do them any harm

 

[Henson Park Hornets]

Having spent a fair bit of time in Wgtn, I'd love to see a team there. Great facilities at the Cake Tin, very close to the city.
But my main concern would be the required corporate support to run the team. I'm not sure that Wellington is big enough, or that matter Chch, to support another NRL side. Unless there is going to be a backer like that Terry dude is behind the Phoenix, the team is going to need a lot of business' to supoort them.
Crowd support should be OK, I reckon, but on a cold wet and windy night in July how many people will turn up to see them play the Cowboys, for example...

 

[adamkungl]

Christchurch. North v South holds a lot of appeal for me

 

[hitman82]

I live in Wellington and would love to have a team on my doorstep, but if planned correctly I believe Christchurch could be far more successful.

Not sure about the local comp down those ways, but initially the junior base wouldn't be a huge problem. Plenty of young talent through the rest of NZ to make up an U20s side, and I bet a few current players of South Island origins would jump at the chance to represent their hometown... Lewis Brown for example - first captain perhaps haha.

The novelty of a new pro sports team (of the best sport in the world nonetheless) would definitely grow the game immensely in the South Island, as the pathway to professional league would be far more visible. Not to mention the positive impact it'd have on the Kiwis.

Hopefully in the next 5 - 10 years this could become reality. If a sh*t game like union can do it, league certainly can.

 

[hitman82]

...and the Warriors vs Christchurch would be a brutal clash every season.