Wing clipped? Sutton in play for No.6

[Newcastlerabbit]

Wing clipped? Sutton in play for No.6

Glenn Jackson | February 16, 2009

South Sydney coach Jason Taylor has revealed his plans for John Sutton to make the Rabbitohs' five-eighth position "his own" this season, a move that has significant ramifications for Craig Wing.
Sutton was one of the Rabbitohs' best in their 38-4 defeat of Penrith at Coffs Harbour on Saturday night as Wing remained on the sidelines, unable to train fully due to off-season ankle surgery.
Wing returned to the Rabbitohs from Sydney Roosters at the start of 2007 to play in the halves but one year down the track, his future again looks to be at hooker.
"He [Sutton] was one of our best players in the game," Taylor said. "Right from the start of the pre-season, that's the decision we made. He's been spending all his time at five-eighth, and there hasn't been any messing around. He knows exactly what his role's going to be. That was only his first game but the signs are good."
Sutton has spent time at No.6 before but in recent years has been predominantly a back-rower, with occasional but certainly not consistent success. One of the club's most talented players, much has been expected from Sutton, and now with a long-term position in one of the chief playmaking roles his for the taking, Taylor expects him to deliver alongside second-year halfback Chris Sandow.
"He [Sutton] is still only 24, but he's one of our more experienced players now, and he's one of our most talented players," Taylor said.
"He and I talked about the fact that I'd like him to make the position his own, and lead our team. He'll take a bit of pressure off Chris, as far as that leadership goes, getting the team around the field, because Chris is only in his second year, and that might be a bit daunting. Chris isn't worried about it, but it's good for someone else to be helping with that."
The Panthers were vastly understrength against the Rabbitohs - as they were in a 34-12 defeat by Parramatta in Griffith with a separate squad on the same night - with coach Matthew Elliott saying: "It was a little bit man against boys [against Souths], but that wasn't unanticipated."
Young forwards Tim Grant and Sam McKendry were impressive in a losing side, however there are fears Junior Moors suffered a broken ankle.
Gold Coast also suffered a loss, 24-18 to Brisbane, however the Titans had two significant gains. Former Queensland winger Chris Walker made his long-awaited return for almost two years after an Achilles injury appeared to have ended his career. Titans signing Will Zillman played his first game since he suffered a knee injury for Canberra early last season.

http://www.leaguehq.com.au/news/new...in-play-for-no6/2009/02/15/1234632646455.html

 

[ballfreek]

Still not sure about that move ... while I have no doubts about Sutto's abilities, long-term I see him as a lock ... however if he's been training at 6 all off-season, then it could be a good thing ... rather than beginning of last year when he trained all off-season as lock, then ended up at 5/8 a few weeks in due to injuries etc.

I guess we'll see come Round 1 .... could even be a blessing in disguise for Wing ... he kind of lost a bit of his impact last season and these days I think he is better suited to hooker than 5/8 ... and Issac seems to have better impact coming off the bench after 20-30 mins too

 

[Dave Q]

SFB members unite.

Our prayers have been answered.

Sutton has the size, strength, experience and skills to be a devastating 5/8th.

He has underperformed and bludged at lock for far too long.

The simple maxim:

The more times Sutto has the ball, the better Souths play.

Wing to the centres with Besty and Corro and Merritt on the wings, thats an explosive backline, monstering in defence and sharp in attack.

Imagine the space and air these fellas could give to each other or to fast running forwards running angles?! FMD!

Sutto responds under pressure, he always has.

Wll done JT.

BTW We love you Sutto.

 

[Paul Hewson]

Dave,

I have to disagree with you in regards to Wing in the Centres. This is a position that he has never covered. I think in the interest of the team that Wing will start the first few rounds on the bench to get match fitness. I think eventually you will see both Wing and Sutton play similar roles in the 6 & 13 jerseys. Also when Luke does go off to have a break Wing will slot into the dummy half role.

 

[rabbs]

I think you will find that Wing played in the centres for Australia in his early days

 

[coach]

Sutton has the size, strength, experience and skills to be a devastating 5/8th.

But Sutton is missing one part of a five-eights game that is important and that is kicking game.

I think that Taylor has had this move planned for sometime. But if I was him I would put it back in the cupboard.

Wing to the centres with Besty

Sorry but Wing is not a centre. To my knowledge, outside of filling in on occassions because of injury or what ever he has never played centre in the NRL.

Wing plays best when he can get his hands on the ball a lot and that doesn't happen at centre. He is either a five-eight, half or hooker. Looks as though Taylor is going make full use of his utility value and start him from the bench.

 

[Newcastlerabbit]

Im very uneasy about this.I have no probs with Sutto playing 5/8 in the short term whilst Wing is injured,but long term it has to be lock.Its no coincidence that we won those games in the latter part of last season,not only with the emergence of Sando into the team,but Wing returning from injury.Watch the replays of those games and you will see the amount of times Wings doubles up twice in movements providing the extra man in attack,run arounds ets and thats something I have not really seen since Phil Blake.Best of alln Wing has a sound kicking game.I really hope JT knows what he is doing here,cause Im (or was) hoping that Sutto would be pushing for the lock jersey in this years State of Origin.

 

[Noa]

Risky move for Taylor.

A change like this could backfire massively when most supporters would be expecting things to kick on from the 2nd half of last year. If things take 5 or 6 rounds and to gel and Souths are 2-4 or 1-5 then I think Taylor couldnt really justify keeping his job.

A caveat to that is Wing could handle lock easy and would make the change not so drastic.

 

[Dave Q]

All valid points, well recieved by me.

But Wingy is a natural footballer and I have complete confidence in him to play at alomst any possie.

Sutto+ball=strike power! Its quite possible for him to play SOO lock even being 5/8 at Souths.

But the truth is we dont want too many in SOO due to injury and fatigue risks. That of course should be balanced by the psychological benefits of players being selected as the best from their state.

Sutto loved his city game for example last season, he got thru it OK.

SOO is a bit of a leveller, good sides often suffer as victims of their success.

Corro-Sandow-Sutto-Wingy-Best-Merritt depending on who we play against....as we might want Tallanoa on a little winger, then we have Beau, Simpson, Capewell...and Mundine or McQueen.

Im very very excited about mundine, toned up and supple, he could be an amazing 5/8th in his own right. Big and mobile..the koori Brad Clyde!

 

[Earl Hickey]

Wing to the centres with Besty and Corro and Merritt on the wings, thats an explosive backline, monstering in defence and sharp in attack.

I think Beau might have a bit to say about Wing playing in the centres that Dave

 

[Dave Q]

I think Beau might have a bit to say about that Dave

I hope so!!

 

[Nemesis]

I don't have an issue with Sutto at 5/8. Sutto and Wingy play different styles of footy however, both are very capable and effective five-eighths. The only area where Wingy has a bit over Sutto is in his passing abilty.. run arounds & cut out passes, as Newc has said.

Now I know stats don't count for much, but if you compare their stats for 2008, overall Sutto appears to be more effective than Wingy in the 5/8 role. Also, because he is getting more ball in hand at 5/8 than at lock, Sutto's stats look far better when playing 5/8...

Sutto (7 games@ 5/8) - 4 tries, 6 try assists, 4 line breaks, 8 line break assists, 28 tackle breaks, 22 offloads, 32 kicks.

Sutto (17 games@ lock) - 2 tries, 7 try assists, 8 line breaks, 8 line break assists, 46 tackle breaks, 34 offloads, 36 kicks.

Wingy (9 games @ 5/8) - 2 tries, 7 try assists, 5 line breaks, 8 line break assists, 21 tackle breaks, 11 offloads, 13 kicks.

The advantage in having Sutto at 5/8 is that Wing can then be used at hooker or lock as required, as well as half (if Sandow happens to get hammered or has a shocker run). Wing is the complete utility player and we should use him where he will benefit the team the most imo.

 

[Dave Q]

I don't have an issue with Sutto at 5/8. Sutto and Wingy play different styles of footy however, both are very capable and effective five-eighths. The only area where Wingy has a bit over Sutto is in his passing abilty.. run arounds & cut out passes, as Newc has said.

Now I know stats don't count for much, but if you compare their stats for 2008, overall Sutto appears to be more effective than Wingy in the 5/8 role. Also, because he is getting more ball in hand at 5/8 than at lock, Sutto's stats look far better when playing 5/8...

Sutto (7 games@ 5/8) - 4 tries, 6 try assists, 4 line breaks, 8 line break assists, 28 tackle breaks, 22 offloads, 32 kicks.

Sutto (17 games@ lock) - 2 tries, 7 try assists, 8 line breaks, 8 line break assists, 46 tackle breaks, 34 offloads, 36 kicks.

Wingy (9 games @ 5/8) - 2 tries, 7 try assists, 5 line breaks, 8 line break assists, 21 tackle breaks, 11 offloads, 13 kicks.

The advantage in having Sutto at 5/8 is that Wing can then be used at hooker or lock as required, as well as half (if Sandow happens to get hammered or has a shocker run). Wing is the complete utility player and we should use him where he will benefit the team the most imo.

Very compelling argument Nemsy, thanks for that.

Sutto likes the pressure.

Now Wingy is what I would describe as the utility's utility.

Wing would make a great inside Centre due to:

* magificent step
* great hands
* Offload ability
* Speed off the mark
* kicking skills
* Ability to read a game
* Superb passing skills
* Can change direction in a blink of an eye
* Throws the best dummy in the game
* Can flick and basketball pass.
* Elusiveness and slippage skills
*Maginificent talker
* Experience to see gaps appear and sense tired defence.
*Great decoy facilitator

Plus hes a reliable defender in his own right.

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These days, with attacks standing shallow, by the time the ball hits an inside back, the defence has either moved up or is sliding over or a combination of both. So the type of person you want in the attack is a ball player with a massive armoury of treats and tricks.

A lot of plays these days involve passes from 5/8 or half back to free running forwards at angles and the inside back is not neccessarily immediately involved.

Until of course, he switches inside to take an inside ball from the forward who has attracted 2 or 3 defenders and creating the gap.

Our inside back then has a few seconds to make that creative play.

Someone as talented as Wing would send genuine panic amongst the most earnest defence.

IMO he remains one of the best players in the game.

Wing is deadly, one of the few "rugby league artisans" left in the game.

To watch Wingy play at his optimum, is almost unforgettable, a real privilige.

Even when he was Easts, at games I attended, we always respectfully clapped him off.