Witness: she was enjoying everything

[Cammo]

I have to agree with DJ1. No means No, it doesn't matter what the situation is.

 

[Leagueguy]

If I leave my house all unlocked and go away for a week and when I come back I've been robbed, I've acted irressponsibly and foolishly. But does the person who robbed you deserve a lighter sentance. No he doesn't. It was just easier for him to commit the crime than perhaps it normally would of been but that isn't a lesser crime. Its fine to say the victim was naive, or stupid or irresponsible or reckless, I think she was , but does that mean the players if they did rape her are any better than other rapists, no it doesnt.

 

[Pensacola Q.C]

If I leave my house all unlocked and go away for a week and when I come back I've been robbed, I've acted irressponsibly and foolishly. But does the person who robbed you deserve a lighter sentance. No he doesn't. It was just easier for him to commit the crime than perhaps it normally would of been but that isn't a lesser crime. Its fine to say the victim was naive, or stupid or irresponsible or reckless, I think she was , but does that mean the players if they did rape her are any better than other rapists, no it doesnt.

I think you're all missing Fibro's points. Perhaps he could have worded them a bit better. I don't think he means that victims are to blame if they are raped after making bad choices. But people do make choices and there IS a difference - perhaps not under the law, but in my opinion - a moral difference between a women who gets jumped on the street and sexually assaulted and a woman who spends the night getting intoxicated around strange guys and then jumping into a car with them. The first is a victim who did not put herself in a bad situation but was attacked, the second is a victim who did put themselves in a bad situation and got attacked.

I think he's advocating a form of education - whether that be parental or state, in which young women especially, are taught to make good choices which won't endanger themselves or at least limit the danger they place themselves in. The fact is that rapes happen 90% by a perp known to the victim in some way beforehand. And there are always going to be sickos in society but there doesn't always have to be willing victims.

 

[dice]

One could argue that walking alone in a street is just as dangerous as picking up a guy.

 

[Pensacola Q.C]

One could argue that walking alone in a street is just as dangerous as picking up a guy.

Rape statistics suggest not.

 

[Fibroman]

The problem with blaming people rather than identifying the real cause of these issues is that people are far less likely to respond to advice if you point the finger at them.

Do you think blaming the child's parents is going to achieve anything? The emphasis has to be on education to make people stop and think before anything happens, dealing blame at victims is not going to make them any more aware of the risks. Isn't that what you're trying to achieve?

Attaching some blame to the child's parents willeducate other parents not to allow their young children to wander the streets and place themselves in a vulnerable position.

I totally agree that NO MEANS NO. No arguments from me at all on that point.

I have been in a position where I have been able to look at the faces on 12 people sitting on a Jury during a trial for sexual assault. I have seen this a number of times. I can tell you that the looks on their faces when the defence barrister starts casting dispersion on the woman's moral standards is quite amazing. I can also tell you that it is the conservative middle age women on the jury that come up with the worst looks of distaste. I believe that is a reflection of society's attitude to people that act with low moral regard.

People should also note that it is not just women that get raped. I haven't got any figures to quote, but from personal experience ( and no smart arse comments needed ) I think young boys fall victim of pedophilia more than young girls. Unfortunately 5 and 6 year old kids don't have the luxury of saying no.

When you see the dead body of a two year old boy that has been sexually assaulted, suffocated and run over by a car, I'm sorry, but you just don't have quite as much sympathy for someone that has put themselves in a position to be sexually assaulted by their own stupidity.

Once again for the slow ones, no does mean no, and no person deserves to be sexually assaulted under any circumstances.

 

[dice]

Pensacola and Fibro. You are both suggesting women should take more precaution, be better educated, and take more responsibilty for their own welfare. Whilst there is some merit in what you say it concerns me a little that you are putting the onus of rape prevention on the potential victims rather than the potential criminals.

IMO, it would be better to educate males on issues like rape trauma, sexual harassment, double standards, etc, so they can understand the consequences of their actions towards women.

 

[Shifty]

Whilst there is some merit in what you say it concerns me a little that you are putting the onus of rape prevention on the potential victims rather than the potential criminals.

Unfortunately on that point fibro has a very valid point, women do have to accept that the dangers exist and should do what they can to avoid putting themselves in unecessary danger.

That doesn't excuse anyone who attacks a woman or mean that women who do find themselves in theses situations deserve it. The education is aimed at potential victims, those that have already fallen victim shouldn't need anyone telling them the dangers.

IMO, it would be better to educate males on issues like rape trauma, sexual harassment, double standards, etc, so they can understand the consequences of their actions towards women.

There has been a major program designed to do just this that has been stalled by government beauracry for the past 5 months. Hopefully this will convince the government that this issue is to important to be treated as a political football.

Where is the call for an education program to target "groupies"?

 

[Rexxy]

Where is the call for an education program to target "groupies"

easiest eductaion program in the world. You write it into the players contract and you lecture the players as part of their curriculum.

Other teams have succeeded in doing this. Why didnt Canterbury?

And for the record Noad and the Folkes need to be educated on the matter of Treating Women properly as well.

 

[*Sandy*]

I totally agree with all of you when you say " No person ever deserves to be sexually assaulted"

I'll pose another situation. Parents allow their their 5 year old child to walk 2 kms through backstreets of a suburb by themselves to go to a friends house. On the way, the child gets abducted and raped by a pedophile.

Do you attach a portion of the blame to the child's parents for the incident?

I sorry, but I have a major moral dilhemma with a woman that engages in consentual group sex one night, and cries rape a couple of nights later.

There isn't a policeman standing on every street corner, so sometimes we have to look after ourselves. It is physically impossible for an intoxicated female to protect herself against a group of males. Fact. So my argument is: Don't put yourself in that position in the first place. It's pretty simple.

I appreciate your sensible comments Shifty. I agree that this entire incident may make women think twice before reporting sexual assaults in the future. That is a terrible thing if that is the case. But I hope that it makes women more aware of the potential dangers of going home with strange men by themselves.

I'm female and completely agree with Fibro here. No woman should put themselves in a position like that. If they do...they are just asking for trouble.

I've gone out many times. I have been absolutely putrid drunk at times and gotten myself into trouble, my girlfriends have gotten absolutely putrid drunk and found themselves in trouble....even one of my girlfriends were in the similar position of finding herself in a group sex incident. I am very sorry that I was not around so that I could have helped her at the time. The thing is she could hardly remember the next morning, made mention of it but wasnt too sure, it wasnt until the next time we ran into the group of boys that we found out for sure. Lucky for her I knew a bikie bloke who happened to be there and him and his mates taught them a lesson they wouldnt forget that night as well. ;-)

I blame the fact that at these times we were putrid drunk and because of that I do think twice about where I am going and who I am going to be with and how much I drink. You have no control whatsoever of your actions when you are under the influence of alcohol or drugs. I am also a mother of 2 very young girls. I will be stressing the dangers of these and I guess I am thankful that I have experienced some sort of danger myself to be able to express quite influentially.

I believe the media should stress the dangers here. I think if the victim is willing to lay down the charges that she should also be stressing the danger she put herself in to others. This is an example to all young females who are besotted with their sporting hero's that not all is seen through rose coloured glasses.

And by saying all this I am in no way saying that the players are not at fault. They are and they should also pay for their actions, in what way I am not too sure but they shouldn't be allowed to think that it's alright to jump a chick without verbal consent. If at any stage they hear a `NO' . They should respect that and discontinue immediately.

 

[Fibroman]

It's clear that this subject gets emotions running high, particularly with women, and I can totally understand that. At no stage did I ever intend to suggest that rape should be condoned under any circumstances.

I merely wanted to raise the point that there isn't a policeman standing on every street corner, and sometimes we all have to take steps to look out for our own welfare. We can all avoid situations like the bulldogs/Coffs harbour scandal if we don't put ourselves in a position like the young woman did.