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Rumoured and Confirmed signings - Part 4

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You may be in the minority on this 1. Given the uproar when the junior Jennings left, and the narrative around recent departures of Moylan & Cartwright.
Agree there has to be a balance of experience, although not sure which of the juniors that came through should have been sacrificed to keep/recruit experience at a similar contract value.

Penrith fans are really attached to their juniors, I totally get that. I just think we over do it sometimes.

Look at 2003, perfect mix of recruits at juniors. I mean Gus has at various points talked about becoming almost a totally junior based club. I think that’s a mistake.

In terms of who we should’ve let go. I’d say some of the backrowers to start with. Cartwright should’ve never got the big deal he did, as good as CHN looks I think Yeo could’ve benefited from some experience next to him.

I don’t think TMM should’ve ever been recruited, at least not as a potential starter.

Also Tamou, I reckon we could’ve got two experienced players for his money.

Just a few thoughts how the team could’ve been older.
 

franklin2323

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You may be in the minority on this 1. Given the uproar when the junior Jennings left, and the narrative around recent departures of Moylan & Cartwright.
Agree there has to be a balance of experience, although not sure which of the juniors that came through should have been sacrificed to keep/recruit experience at a similar contract value.

Look at Hiku's signing. The club side of they were signing a test player. People on here have said they should of not signed him and had faith in the kids.

Either way the club is damned. Personally I'd prefer a few journey men at the lower end of the squad. Though on the other side of it they would. They would take a NSW Cup spot of someone like Sivo. So I see both sides
 

Abacus

Juniors
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Not when you take into consideration the massive injury toll in 2015. It was unprecedented.

We should at the very least be challenging for a top 4 spot this year & be more competitive against top 8 teams. Anything less than a 50% + win rate against the top 8 is a failure.
I still think we're too inexperienced to think top 4. Agree we should be improving although since 2010, average age of teams making top 4 each season sits around 26 years old. We're sitting at around 24.5 for 2018.
Might indicate we're still a little young.
 
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Look at Hiku's signing. The club side of they were signing a test player. People on here have said they should of not signed him and had faith in the kids.

Either way the club is damned. Personally I'd prefer a few journey men at the lower end of the squad. Though on the other side of it they would. They would take a NSW Cup spot of someone like Sivo. So I see both sides

They should’ve signed someone less expensive. I know Manly paid most of his salary early on, but if we’d signed someone cheaper we quite possibly wouldn’t of had to move them on as soon as Hiku was
 

Abacus

Juniors
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2,093
Penrith fans are really attached to their juniors, I totally get that. I just think we over do it sometimes.

Look at 2003, perfect mix of recruits at juniors. I mean Gus has at various points talked about becoming almost a totally junior based club. I think that’s a mistake.

In terms of who we should’ve let go. I’d say some of the backrowers to start with. Cartwright should’ve never got the big deal he did, as good as CHN looks I think Yeo could’ve benefited from some experience next to him.

I don’t think TMM should’ve ever been recruited, at least not as a potential starter.

Also Tamou, I reckon we could’ve got two experienced players for his money.

Just a few thoughts how the team could’ve been older.
I agree we tend to overrate the juniors and we'll always need some level of external recruiting.

Take your point on Cartwright but disagree on CHN. Great to finally have a second rower that knows how to run a line into a gap - sometimes it feels like we haven't had 1 since a young Tony Puletua. CHN got tired by the end of the year but he's 1 I'm thinking will keep improving this year once back from injury.

I thought TMM was a decent punt since 2014 and 2015 our 1st choice halves were aging Soward & Wallace. In hindsight though, you're right.

Tamou definitely didn't live up to his contract on the field last season. Hoping he steps it up, particularly with Latu now gone.
 

Abacus

Juniors
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They should’ve signed someone less expensive. I know Manly paid most of his salary early on, but if we’d signed someone cheaper we quite possibly wouldn’t of had to move them on as soon as Hiku was
Signed someone cheaper like who? Lafai was part of the same carousel but had more injury history and less rep honours.
 

franklin2323

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They should’ve signed someone less expensive. I know Manly paid most of his salary early on, but if we’d signed someone cheaper we quite possibly wouldn’t of had to move them on as soon as Hiku was

He was a test player. We played a premium for that. That is the thing with experience it costs money
 
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Signed someone cheaper like who? Lafai was part of the same carousel but had more injury history and less rep honours.

I honestly can’t say who was available 2-3 years ago, it was a general point.

I do know we rushed to sign him though after Idris left. Find it hard to believe there were no other options out there.
 

Kilkenny

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Sivo may have scored a couple of tries but on tonight's evidence Christian Crichton would be in front of Sivo if push comes to shove and we need someone to step up.
 
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I agree we tend to overrate the juniors and we'll always need some level of external recruiting.

Take your point on Cartwright but disagree on CHN. Great to finally have a second rower that knows how to run a line into a gap - sometimes it feels like we haven't had 1 since a young Tony Puletua. CHN got tired by the end of the year but he's 1 I'm thinking will keep improving this year once back from injury.

I thought TMM was a decent punt since 2014 and 2015 our 1st choice halves were aging Soward & Wallace. In hindsight though, you're right.

Tamou definitely didn't live up to his contract on the field last season. Hoping he steps it up, particularly with Latu now gone.

We massively overrate our juniors. The amount of hype over the years has been extrofinary. More often than not they don’t pan out.

I’m not saying CHN isn’t a good player btw, I’m saying overall the team may have benefited from being older.
 

Pomoz

Bench
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The youth is absolutely one of the reasons we haven’t improved the last 2 seasons, but the youth direction was their decision making. In my view they made the team too young.
I mean Gus has at various points talked about becoming almost a totally junior based club. I think that’s a mistake.

Just a few thoughts how the team could’ve been older.

I have never heard Gus say that we should be all juniors. I have heard him say that he is basing the club's model on the Broncos where we have about 80% local juniors. He also made the point that juniors also means signing junior players from QLD and country areas if the Penrith region doesn't have what you need. He has done this repeatedly.

I 100% support this policy and lament the fact the club hasn't done this for the last 40 years. It is obvious you can't compete with one city clubs like Melbourne and Brisbane and the TPA's they offer, you can't compete with clubs with inner city lifestyle and beaches on offer. So here we are, using the biggest resource we have, our juniors.

If that is the strategy then it becomes about the execution. It is one thing having juniors, its another thing developing them properly so they turn into first graders. We have failed to do this well in the past.

The point should be made that we are early in the proper completion of this strategy because it takes a while to get the development paths working properly, and to fill the gaps in the roster at the junior level, of which there were many. A junior then takes 4 to 5 years to develop so you are in the wilderness until the production line is consistently producing talent and your first batch are now experienced first graders. In your first run, you won't have 80 %, that will take time. Once you reach the tipping point you can manage the age of the team much more effectively. I think we are close to that now. We are now at that point where we are seeing several years of juniors of the right quality, in the right positions that will fill the 80% of positions that our strategy aspires to. The first big group of juniors are now just past or close to the 50 game point (the number which NRL coaches believe a player is a proper first grader), but only just.

I take your point that the team was too young and it is a reason why I repeatedly argue that we have lived up to our potential because people have oversold how good we are (please let's not argue this point again, lets all agree to disagree). Gus could have signed a few more experienced players but he has gone cold turkey to try and boost the number of juniors we have . Brennan has to take a huge wrap for that because he really helped start it off at u20 level. The benefit of this will be realised in the next few years, because we will have 80% local juniors (cheaper and more loyal than outsiders. I know the irony of this statement with the Moylan issue, but lets agree that1 or 2 cases doesn't make that statement invalid) and they will be experienced with more coming through to keep the supply topped up.

It is a balancing act and everybody will have a different opinion on what is the right balance. But the amazing thing is, we have made the semi finals two years running with a very young roster. Those juniors have got finals experience on their way to 50 games. Lets see what happens next.
 
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I have never heard Gus say that we should be all juniors. I have heard him say that he is basing the club's model on the Broncos where we have about 80% local juniors. He also made the point that juniors also means signing junior players from QLD and country areas if the Penrith region doesn't have what you need. He has done this repeatedly.

I 100% support this policy and lament the fact the club hasn't done this for the last 40 years. It is obvious you can't compete with one city clubs like Melbourne and Brisbane and the TPA's they offer, you can't compete with clubs with inner city lifestyle and beaches on offer. So here we are, using the biggest resource we have, our juniors.

If that is the strategy then it becomes about the execution. It is one thing having juniors, its another thing developing them properly so they turn into first graders. We have failed to do this well in the past.

The point should be made that we are early in the proper completion of this strategy because it takes a while to get the development paths working properly, and to fill the gaps in the roster at the junior level, of which there were many. A junior then takes 4 to 5 years to develop so you are in the wilderness until the production line is consistently producing talent and your first batch are now experienced first graders. In your first run, you won't have 80 %, that will take time. Once you reach the tipping point you can manage the age of the team much more effectively. I think we are close to that now. We are now at that point where we are seeing several years of juniors of the right quality, in the right positions that will fill the 80% of positions that our strategy aspires to. The first big group of juniors are now just past or close to the 50 game point (the number which NRL coaches believe a player is a proper first grader), but only just.

I take your point that the team was too young and it is a reason why I repeatedly argue that we have lived up to our potential because people have oversold how good we are (please let's not argue this point again, lets all agree to disagree). Gus could have signed a few more experienced players but he has gone cold turkey to try and boost the number of juniors we have . Brennan has to take a huge wrap for that because he really helped start it off at u20 level. The benefit of this will be realised in the next few years, because we will have 80% local juniors (cheaper and more loyal than outsiders. I know the irony of this statement with the Moylan issue, but lets agree that1 or 2 cases doesn't make that statement invalid) and they will be experienced with more coming through to keep the supply topped up.

It is a balancing act and everybody will have a different opinion on what is the right balance. But the amazing thing is, we have made the semi finals two years running with a very young roster. Those juniors have got finals experience on their way to 50 games. Lets see what happens next.

Hence I said almost totally juniors.

80% is a massive figure.

And 80% is also wildly unrealistic. We will not win titles with 80% local juniors.

Gus actually hasn’t had a problem attracting talent to the club at all in the last 7 years.

Merrin
Peachey
Tamou
Maloney
Soward
Seg
Mansour
Whare

My point wasn’t just limited to juniors though, it was to the age of the team.


2003 Grand Final team was 55% players who debuted for the club. 1991 was 75%. Although I’d argue the comp was very different in 1991.
 
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Kilkenny

Coach
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This is bullshit.

If it were true we would have kept Carty and Moylan.. telling them Hook is gone and to wait and see how they feel after he left.

I dont doubt theres players that hate the coach. But our clubs actions tell us he is safe. Players will be gone before him.

I think most of us have moved on from Matt Moylan and Bryce Cartwright.

They are no longer part of our club and most fans are accepting of the the fact.

There may well be players that don't like or respect coach Anthony Griffin but the fact is the 'majority' of the playing group had much more dislike and less respect for both Moylan and Cartwright so get over it. They are both gone and we will be the better for it long term.
 

franklin2323

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This new off field cap makes it very expensive to sack a coach. Let's use this case Des or McGuire would be the front runners. They have to get full rein this would include bringing their staff onboard.

Most certainly seeing us break it pay the fine. Certainly nothing on field has shown that desperation yet.

Besides this guy said Pearce was signed to Manly and Pay was chance to be dogs coach. Not to mention hates Gus and hook so would have no sources whatsoever into the club
 
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This new off field cap makes it very expensive to sack a coach. Let's use this case Des or McGuire would be the front runners. They have to get full rein this would include bringing their staff onboard.

Most certainly seeing us break it pay the fine. Certainly nothing on field has shown that desperation yet.

Besides this guy said Pearce was signed to Manly and Pay was chance to be dogs coach. Not to mention hates Gus and hook so would have no sources whatsoever into the club

Hard to find any solid info on this off field cap, but my guess it would be a phase in period.

Not that a think Hook is getting sacked anytime soon.
 
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