What's unfolding on twitter?

[Get Down or Lay Down]

The Sharks are in an ok place financialy right now. we did alot of rundraising last year which left us in the black for the first time in many years. We have a few funraisers set for 2012, with the first this friday. We are making strides to eliviate as much cost from our players as possible. Sponsorship this year is our main concern and we've made some progress. With our young team and talented coaching, we feel 2012 is goin to be a great year.

To answer your question about the teams entering. the emails recieved by the AMNRL stated there are new developments for 2012 with new teams joining us. no specific names but we were told when the info would be released

 

[Bluebags1908]

Spot on. You see people talking about the Super League war, but that was a split between two extremely rich and powerful factions of businessmen with massive amounts of money involved and the players that were excluded were full-time professionals. In the USA, it's a bunch of amateur players being excluded from the national side seemingly for no other reason than because one man is unwilling to relinquish power for the greater good. The situations aren't comparable at all. Claiming that Niu had no choice other than to exclude players is BS.

What a load of BS! The fact that the ARL/Super League war involved professional players and the AMNRL/USARL split involves amateurs is irrelevant - in both instances the reasons behind the exclusion of the rebel players is exactly the same. In both instances neither group wanted to "relinquish power" as you put it.

In fact, Super League players took the ARL to court in an attempt to gain selection in the 1995 World Cup team, so the fact that they were highly paid professionals didn't seem to matter - they still wanted to be considered for selection. From memory the Super League players actually won the court case, with the judge ordering the ARL to "consider" the players for selection. The ARL then duly did this at the selection table and after "considering" the merits of their selection, the ARL decided not to pick any rebel players anyway.

You also conveniently forget that the splits in Italy, South Africa, Fiji, Tonga, and Russia all involved amateur players as well. So there is a precedence.

 

[Bluebags1908]

All very good points.

However, just because it's happened in the past doesn't make it right. The game has hopefully moved on enough now into a more professional era where these kinds of petty squabbles shouldn't be an issue.

And in regards to if the boot was on the other foot, if the RLIF were to give USARL power, then yeah I think they are professional and dignified enough to pick anyone available. They are confident enough in their own league and policies that they don't need to take a cheap upper hand in using the national team as a reason to join them. The AMNRL clearly aren't, and the only reason anyone would want to join them would be for that possibility.

It's not a matter of what's right or wrong. Both organisations are doing what they feel is right. It is way too simplistic for us outsiders looking in to sit on our lounge chaires and brazenly shoot off that "it's disgrace that the AMNRL is not picking USARL players" blah, blah, blah, and point out to the perceived injustices to the rebel players.

In highlighting the historical splits in RL bodies over the years in a number of countries, it tells us that simply saying "The AMNRL should pick rebel players" is not as simple as it sounds, otherwise it would have been done previously in Australia, Italy, Japan, South Africa, etc.

In an ideal world yes of course all players should be made available, but it is not as simple as it sounds.

 

[Evil Homer]

What a load of BS! The fact that the ARL/Super League war involved professional players and the AMNRL/USARL split involves amateurs is irrelevant - in both instances the reasons behind the exclusion of the rebel players is exactly the same. In both instances neither group wanted to "relinquish power" as you put it.

In fact, Super League players took the ARL to court in an attempt to gain selection in the 1995 World Cup team, so the fact that they were highly paid professionals didn't seem to matter - they still wanted to be considered for selection. From memory the Super League players actually won the court case, with the judge ordering the ARL to "consider" the players for selection. The ARL then duly did this at the selection table and after "considering" the merits of their selection, the ARL decided not to pick any rebel players anyway.

You also conveniently forget that the splits in Italy, South Africa, Fiji, Tonga, and Russia all involved amateur players as well. So there is a precedence.

The Super League war had millions of dollars and pretty much the future of professional RL in Australasia at stake. In the USA, all that is at stake is one man's ego. Considering the magnitude, it's absolutely absurd to even think about comparing the split in the USA with Super League. Also, isn't it widely acknowledged that the way the split in Australia unfolded came close to causing the death of the game? If that's the case, then why are you suggesting that this is a precedent that we should be looking to follow?

Any previous splits or disputes between governing bodies are completely irrelevant. If you were trying to rationalise Niu's actions, then I think it's already pretty obvious to everyone why he acted in the way he did. That doesn't make it right or give it any justification. You seem to insinuate in your last post that you believe there would have been negative ramifications for RL in the USA had USARL players been selected for the Tomahawks. I'm not sure what you think would have happened, but I'd be interested to see how you could possibly attempt to justify or provide any explanation for the exclusion of the USARL players other than because Niu and his clique were desperate to cling onto their fleeting power.

 

[juro]

The Australian superleague war alienated a lot of fans, who stopped following rugby league. The war in the USA won't alienate the fans, but could alienate the players and others working behind the scenes. Which is worse?

 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

It's not a matter of what's right or wrong. Both organisations are doing what they feel is right.

Bit of a contradiction there. So it is about what's right and wrong? They can't both be right.

It is way too simplistic for us outsiders looking in to sit on our lounge chaires and brazenly shoot off that "it's disgrace that the AMNRL is not picking USARL players" blah, blah, blah, and point out to the perceived injustices to the rebel players.

In highlighting the historical splits in RL bodies over the years in a number of countries, it tells us that simply saying "The AMNRL should pick rebel players" is not as simple as it sounds, otherwise it would have been done previously in Australia, Italy, Japan, South Africa, etc.

All highlighting the past does is bring to light that the game has got it wrong so many times before.
As a game, we are now a lot more professional and organised to deal with this situation (well you'd like to think anyway!). You wouldn't get this happening in football (soccer). FIFA would be all over it, as should the RLIF.
To me, if you want to be recognised as the official NGB by the RLIF (and thus have national selection rights), you need to follow RLIF criteria the closest. If one of those criteria is to pick everyone available, and one is offering and the other isn't, then I'm sorry but it's a no brainer for me.

Just because you're a rebel doesn't mean you're bad.

In an ideal world yes of course all players should be made available, but it is not as simple as it sounds.

If the RLIF had any actual balls, it would be very simple.

"Are you willing to select any American RL player playing in your country?"
AMNRL - No.
USARL - Yes.

OK, you're in charge of the national team as its better for the international game, of which we (apparently!) oversee.

 

[FortyTwenty]

I'd say 50-60 would be a fair assessment considering we had three new teams enter the comp as well as a few new guys on existing teams.

I'd say a few more than that. Oneida FC had around 20 new guys alone, B13s another 10, NJ Turnpike Titans (at least) 25, RIR another 35+, and then all the new players registering to (remaining 4) established teams [say, conservatively, 5 per club] ... this equals 110. Round it down, (again; ultra-conservatively,) and we'd be left with 100 new players.
And this number doesn't even touch upon the Southeast RL Reserve Grade competition (of 3 more teams), nor even all the kids that AYRLA had (within their pilot program in RI)!
All in all buddy, in my humble approximation, we'd be looking at more like 200 "new" RL players in the USARL within 2011 alone.

 

[Mr_Ugly]

Whilst it wouldn't have made much different to the make up for the final team (lets be honest, the ex-pats would have been picked regardless of whether it was an AMNRL team, a USARL team or a combined team), it at least would have given the USARL players a chance and stopped a lot of the complaints.

Would have also meant that Apple Pope could have played footy last year.

Seems odd to me (a) that a bloke has to give up footy to be picked by the national team, and (b) that a bloke who's not playing footy can be picked for the national team.

 

[deal.with.it]

I'd say a few more than that. Oneida FC had around 20 new guys alone, B13s another 10, NJ Turnpike Titans (at least) 25, RIR another 35+, and then all the new players registering to (remaining 4) established teams [say, conservatively, 5 per club] ... this equals 110. Round it down, (again; ultra-conservatively,) and we'd be left with 100 new players.
And this number doesn't even touch upon the Southeast RL Reserve Grade competition (of 3 more teams), nor even all the kids that AYRLA had (within their pilot program in RI)!
All in all buddy, in my humble approximation, we'd be looking at more like 200 "new" RL players in the USARL within 2011 alone.

Yep thats a shit load of new players. Talent might be diluted, but thats some serious development. If each USARL team runs the AYRLA program, get another 20 kids, and if each USARL team gets a reserve grade team...
That's a lot of players in america.

 

[nadera78]

Yep thats a shit load of new players. Talent might be diluted, but thats some serious development. If each USARL team runs the AYRLA program, get another 20 kids, and if each USARL team gets a reserve grade team...
That's a lot of players in america.

And none of them eligible for representative football.

 

[Choo Choo]

I'd say a few more than that. Oneida FC had around 20 new guys alone, B13s another 10, NJ Turnpike Titans (at least) 25, RIR another 35+, and then all the new players registering to (remaining 4) established teams [say, conservatively, 5 per club] ... this equals 110. Round it down, (again; ultra-conservatively,) and we'd be left with 100 new players.
And this number doesn't even touch upon the Southeast RL Reserve Grade competition (of 3 more teams), nor even all the kids that AYRLA had (within their pilot program in RI)!
All in all buddy, in my humble approximation, we'd be looking at more like 200 "new" RL players in the USARL within 2011 alone.

You're probably right. I was trying to be conservative, but your numbers make sense.

 

[Bucks County Sharks]

How many will you be taking to Atlanta? Were the Sharks or Eagles aware that Atlanta was joining the comp the season and how do you budget for an expense like this? Is the AMNRL paying for all fares?

Looking at the USARL clubs it seems that a number of the clubs have sponsors that pay for travel but I do not have the feeling the AMNRL operate on the same budget. Thank you.

Couple of things here -

We were always the first team to raise there hand to play in Jax. It's a great trip for the boys and we went there every year of Jax's existence until we sat out in 2010. The players are aware of this and need to save accordingly, so there are no real issues with ONE larger piece of travel a season. It's the combination of multiple 3-4 hr trips throughout the season that really hurt. Those trip expenses add up very quickly.

We fund raise internally throughout the year in order to not have ANY dues for the players. I think we have only had to charge player dues once in the past 10 seasons.

We had heard reports of new clubs in the AMNRL.

 

[YellowJacket]

I just want to play the game as a newbie to the world of league. I just want to play the game. Right now, I'm still contemplating about the possibility of starting a USARL developmental side in the Greater Houston area. A few others and myself have an interest in doing so but we must figure out if the market exists. All of us, though newbies, we realize the situation. If we establish the team, we will be a part of the USARL. There are political things that I'm not well versed at all in but it's all pretty easy to summarize enough to get a vague understanding.

 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I just want to play the game as a newbie to the world of league. I just want to play the game. Right now, I'm still contemplating about the possibility of starting a USARL developmental side in the Greater Houston area. A few others and myself have an interest in doing so but we must figure out if the market exists. All of us, though newbies, we realize the situation. If we establish the team, we will be a part of the USARL. There are political things that I'm not well versed at all in but it's all pretty easy to summarize enough to get a vague understanding.

Just out of interest, as a newbie, why have you chosen the USARL over the AMNRL? Or did they approach you?

Good to see the game spreading in the world. If it was cheaper to get over to the States from the UK, you'd see a hell of a lot of touring sides!

 

[Choo Choo]

If it was cheaper to get over to the States from the UK, you'd see a hell of a lot of touring sides!

We would welcome a tour and show you guys a great time in DC.

 

[Choo Choo]

I just want to play the game as a newbie to the world of league. I just want to play the game. Right now, I'm still contemplating about the possibility of starting a USARL developmental side in the Greater Houston area. A few others and myself have an interest in doing so but we must figure out if the market exists. All of us, though newbies, we realize the situation. If we establish the team, we will be a part of the USARL. There are political things that I'm not well versed at all in but it's all pretty easy to summarize enough to get a vague understanding.

Great stuff, I know that Dallas is trying to get something off the ground, so there would at least be some competition in-state at the beginning.

Anything the Slayers can do to help, feel free to ask.

 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

We would welcome a tour and show you guys a great time in DC.

Well my club's last tour was to Malta in October and it was only £210 for 3 nights. Very much doubt we'll be able to get a similar deal to America unless one of your players owns a plane!

 

[YellowJacket]

Just out of interest, as a newbie, why have you chosen the USARL over the AMNRL? Or did they approach you?

Good to see the game spreading in the world. If it was cheaper to get over to the States from the UK, you'd see a hell of a lot of touring sides!

1. More clubs (specifically there are clubs closer to us). It seems most of the AMNRL clubs ate in the NE corner of the country.

2. It seems that the USARL has their collective head on straight. Club representation in the overall leadership of the league is huge.

3. It seems that the USARL is moving faster considering the website and the people on here from the USARL. I've spoken to Spinner and he will assist me if we go through with this.

EDIT: If you noticed that I used "it seems" to start off a lot. I say this because what I'm saying is that this is only from my point of view. A newbie's perspective. I could be entirely wrong. There are 4 of us who would jumpstart this. We have a team name, possible practice and gameday fields. No home bar but we don't care about that. If we can spend about a year or two learning the game and having about 20 players. Then and only then, will we come to the USARL to ask to go through the process of becoming a developmental team. I'm tired of the "Houston Hornets" and good luck with them. If we show up, I want to smash them.
Plus, if we go with the USARL. We can have a little derby with Dallas about 4 times a year. 2 in each city.

 

[Fatwing15]

1. More clubs (specifically there are clubs closer to us). It seems most of the AMNRL clubs ate in the NE corner of the country.

2. It seems that the USARL has their collective head on straight. Club representation in the overall leadership of the league is huge.

3. It seems that the USARL is moving faster considering the website and the people on here from the USARL. I've spoken to Spinner and he will assist me if we go through with this.

EDIT: If you noticed that I used "it seems" to start off a lot. I say this because what I'm saying is that this is only from my point of view. A newbie's perspective. I could be entirely wrong. There are 4 of us who would jumpstart this. We have a team name, possible practice and gameday fields. No home bar but we don't care about that. If we can spend about a year or two learning the game and having about 20 players. Then and only then, will we come to the USARL to ask to go through the process of becoming a developmental team. I'm tired of the "Houston Hornets" and good luck with them. If we show up, I want to smash them.
Plus, if we go with the USARL. We can have a little derby with Dallas about 4 times a year. 2 in each city.

The USARL 9's Tournament would be a great opportunity to get your first taste of League.
The quality of competition wasn't staggering last year, you could probably just jump on a team looking for numbers.

 

[deluded pom?]

The USARL 9's Tournament would be a great opportunity to get your first taste of League.
The quality of competition wasn't staggering last year, you could probably just jump on a team looking for numbers.

Plus there won't be a red hot favourite playing like the NZ Police team last year so the standard shouldn't be too big a gap to bridge.