Manu Vatuvei
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Willow, I honestly don't get it.
To be honest i think its an era issue. Throughout the 90's, scoring was much more difficult than it is today. And that is backed up by almost every stat which show that scoring has increased a hell of a lot. And throughout the 90's, Sachin and Lara stood above the rest and came up with many astonishing acheivements despite all the world class bowlers.Thierry Henry said:It's probably thoroughly unnecessarily for me to bring up this old debate, but fk it.
How is Ponting not in the same group as Lara and Sachin?
Thierry Henry said:My good pal Nalin pointed out to me recently that Ponting has averaged 70 over his last 52 tests (a number of tests deliberately chosen because it's how many the Don played.) Jacques Kallis, according to cricinfo, has averaged 69 from his last 50 tests.
This sort of proves two points- on one hand, you are dead right about Ponting and Kallis scoring far more heavily in roughly the second half of their careers to this point. The second point imo is that you can't underestimate just how brilliantly these players have performed. To average 70 over a 50 test period is ridiculously good.
Interestingly, Rahul Dravid has averaged 60 over his last 50 tests. Not as dominant as Ponting in this era, but perhaps more consistent and a better performer in a tougher era (mid to late 90s.)
I reckon run scoring became slightly easier around 2000 but much moreso around 2001/2. Of the bowlers today, only Warne, McGrath and Murali are great. As we've seen from this series, Pollock is a shadow of his former self. Still pretty decent, but a stock bowler who keeps it tight more than anything. Flintoff is up there, as is Shoiab with his head screwed on (but thats been 1 series in like 5 years). Ntini isnt by any means a great bowler. And Vettori is an average test bowler backed up by his record. Kumble is a great spinner though.SirShire said:I still think Sachin is overrated. Going off stats for this one, but aren't the vast majority of his test runs scored in India??
IMO the greatest bats from the 90s would be S Waugh and Lara. At the rate Ponting is going now, he will be there.
But Tommy, I can't fully agree with the argument that it is easier to score runs. Up until now and in the early parts of the 00s, there have been plenty of quality bowlers doing the circuits. Warne, McGrath, Flintoff recently, Kumble, Pollock, Ntini, Shoaib (if you wish), Murali (if you're Sanjane), Vettori. I don't know if scoring is any easy due to the bowlers doing the trap, but I dare say that the quality of batsmen now is much better than I recally of in the mid-late 90s.
LOL. Remember Old Trafford?aussies1st said:Rain happens twiz, we were at the bad end of it during the Ashes now SA were. You gotta take the good with the bad like umpiring decisions.
SirShire said:I think a more accurate stat would be maintaining an average of over 50 since 2000. A player can score a few centuries and then float off into nothing in one year, but it takes skill to keep it that high over a few years.
SirShire said:Nearly all of those averages have been built from careers spanning well over a decade. Tendulkar debuted in 1989 I believe, nearly every player in that list is in their early/mid 30s and have had close to 100 tests to build their innings up