4 Corners - El Masri

[Cronulla_Mania]

cheers sm, you are 100% right. a friendly attitude can get u a long way. i mean, there are always exceptions to the rule, but the whole environment is different in the 'west', i think it helps to create a different 'breed' (cant think of a better word lol) person

willow, sorry mate, but in this case i stand by wat i said. most ppl 30-35 and over wouldn't know the full extent of what goes on. i never saidit was exclusive to the west, its just that at the moment, its the hotbed for these sort of issues. OK, illtry one out and see what you think. i have heard througha mate who told meof a 13yr old kid, runningdrugs forbigger dealers,who was kneecapped when he tried selling some on the side. Thats where its at. Its hard for me to fathom that things like that go on. Thats why i suggested that other people wouldn't believe it, its a hideous and low act. And it is beyond belief.

Moffo

 

[Willow]

eels fan... "Those metre-maids are just plain frightening..."
lol.. I have to say that I tend to steer clear of those Gold Coast hot spots.

I moved here because of the lifestyle (and the cheap real estate). I gave Sydney away because of the reasons that Moffo and Legend have outlined inasmuch that it was becoming too big and there were too many people pecking at each other. Every job I ever had involved extended contact with the public and you can only put up with that for so many decades.

Its not much fun having to watch your back - Rasputin's account of walking on a railway platform brings backa number ofmemories. Having said that, I still refuse to simplify it by laying the blame at one section of the community.
Don't get me wrong. I love Sydney - still the best city in the world imo... but its was just getting too congested and having kids made me look at things differently.

I reccommend the Gold Coast to anyone who wants to see the back of all that crap.
Its actually a great place..and its still near NSW..!

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Midas - I have no doubts about that, thats why i said most. I definitely didn't mean it to come out in a way where i suggested that people in that age bracket and older are ignorant and oblivious to the ways of these people. I was more trying to emphasise the point that the full extent of what goes on is not known to most. I mean, everyone would have some level of understanding, but IMO, its hard to totally comprehend.

But i can see how it could be read wrong, i should have expanded on what i meant. I do apologise. And i take it back, awaiting a re-wording, if thats possible under LWOS rules

Here we go:

"The depth of the problem would be hard to comprehend for most people of an older age, given the heavy involvement of the younger generation in much of what goes on. Many of the current issues, including heavy gang involvement and the drug industry have really exploded in the last 10 years, once again making it harder for people of an older generation to understand. Gangs and drugs are primarily found in the youth culture"

Now i know people will rip into that. Obviously, drugs and gangs have existed for more than 10yrs. But its just my observation, from reading andwatching storiesabout the past, and comparing it today, that its a lotmore of a problemin 2002.

Moffo

 

[Willow]

Moffo: "Its hard for me to fathom that things like that go on."
You may be appalled by these things and with good reason. Its pretty shocking. But its not new and if you don't mind me saying, hardly surprising. No point further debating who has seen or heard of the morehideous crime... thats just getting silly.

"in this case i stand by wat i said. most ppl 30-35 and over wouldn't know the full extent of what goes on."
Lol.. Like I said before mate, its something for you to look forward. I sincerely hope we're still in contact with each other in 15 years from now. It'll be interesting to see if you still hold that view.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Fair enough mate, we can agree to disagree (again)

But i saw the worst crime, pick my story, pick mine! hehe

Na, fair enough, we all look at things from a different viewpoint. And we are all products of our environment (good, bad or in between). Thank goodness for discussion boards, it would be boring if we all agreed!

Cheers,
Moffo

 

[SpaceMonkey]

If we are going to compare criminal stories I've got an amusing one... not the most heinous crime ever but an illustration of the fact that senseless violence occurs outside of SW Sydney as well.
An ex workmate of ine from Mangere in south Auckland currently hasa freind serving time in jail. This is how he got there.
He was driving his car through South Auckland with a mate when the mate asked to stop at a service station to get some food and smokes. The mate went into the servo and came out with a couple of pies, smokes and a drink. They drove off and were sitting at the lights munching on their pies when suddenly armed police surrounded them and ordered them out of the car. The guy driving the car thought wat the f**k?!.... Turns out his mate had decided to beat the shit out of the gas station attendant and rob the servo... for two pies, some smokes and a drink. What a knob-end. The driver got two years for his unwitting part in the offence. How pissed off must he be with the other guy?
On a more sober note the same mate of mine grew up with a guy who was recently jailed for killing a bank teller and pizza shop worker in robberies. In the case of the pizza guy he shot him in the back of the head while he lay face down on the floor. The guy was doing it to feed his speed habit, needless to say I am really anti methamphetamines.

 

[imported_midas]

moffo
There is one particular group of older people who understand the problem better than most- those residents of what were formerly quiet working-class suburbs who have seen them change drastically,don,t like the changes but can,t afford to re-locate.
I reckon they would have a pretty good understanding of the problems.

 

[imported_Rasputin]

in this case i stand by wat i said. most ppl 30-35 and over wouldn't know the full extent of what goes on
When I was a19 year old I always wondered how my Dad always knew what I was getting up to, I used to think he was a bloody psychic. Now it's my kids who wonder how I know.

I agree withWillow, when it comes to human nature there is nothing new, not even your story, maybenew to you but that's only because your now old enough to notice it,but it's not new to some of us "30-35 and over" who have seen it all before, the faces/groups may change but the stories don't. To me that's the main flawin Darwin's theory, I can't see where we haveevolved very much at all.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

i guess so mate. the basic human instincts (nature) don't really change. People will always want to eat, drink, have sexual relations , fight people they don't like etc etc. Trust me, ive heard the same arguments that yourself and willow have put up from my parents and other peopleof that vintage hehe...I tend to think that as people get older, they naturally, develop prejudices and biases towards certain things. Whether that clouds an objective opinion, i dont know. Others would say that you get older and wiser....well yeh, thats probably true as well

But newayssssss, i just think the form of it changes. That why i see it as different. 30-40yrs ago, starting trouble might have ended up with you receiving a beating in the street from a group of men. Today, it might a flurry of bullets into your body or a machete through the back. I think...im safe in saying that its a more violent world that we live in today. Gangs are more sophisticated, geez, think 50yrs ago, would've anyone been brave enough to fire bullets into a police station, or stab a policeman to death in a park? I think incidents like that reflect the changes that have gone on.

Moffo.

 

[Willow]

"People will always want to eat, drink, have sexual relations..."
Well... at least one of those become less frequent for the 35+.. present company excepted.

"... as people get older, they naturally, develop prejudices and biases towards certain things. "
Hmmm, I can honestly say that I consider many people younger than me to be more prejudiced than I ever recall my own parents being. I refer to the growing conservatism amongst the 18-28 age group. Not all offcourse (It refreshing to see some young folk protesting at a drop of hat... civil disobedience aint dead yet, thank goodness) but its evident in this particular thread and in this forum that some contributors have a very conservative outlook on life which they shouldnt be forming for at least another 30 years..., imo.
In any case, I'm considered a lunatic by some who are younger than me so I must be doing something right.

"Gangs are more sophisticated, geez, think 50yrs ago, would've anyone been brave enough to fire bullets into a police station"
50 years ago! crikey mate.. how old do think some of us are? lol
To answer your question, you might have to ask Bumper Farrell.. he probably remembers stories of Squizzy Taylor who did pretty much what you've described <u>over</u> 50 years ago. I understand (could be wrong) that Taylor Square in Darlinghurst was named after him.
Squizzy was the most well known crim of the very many that held Sydney to ransom with drugs, guns and murder. There wasn't a cop that didnt fear for his life... many just simply became part of the corrupt system.
Sadly, the legacy lingers even today.

 

[Willow]

Oh, I almost forgot to mention...

Squizzy Taylor was just part of the bigger picture of underworld criminal activity that went on in the 20s and 30s.

The law abiding folkof the day were appalled by what these thugs got up to and often made reference to their 'Catholic working class background' as being the root cause of the problem.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

interesting stuff mate. ive even heard of him!

50yrs ago?? hehe, i just picked that time span out. Is 30yrs better?

I think that the population as a whole has got more intelligent in the past 30yrs. 'Book sense' wise, u might say. SOME people have developed more rational views to life. I mean, walking down the street with placards, smoking weed and wearing crappy clothes is not exactly cool either hehe. As much as some people might argue, the world is pretty different to how it was 30yrs ago.

I see the conservatism arugment as well. That last paragraph is but an attempt to rationalise why it happens. Im probably a bit of a conservative, but you is what you is!

Moffo

 

[Willow]

The only reason I know about him is because I lived 50 yards from Taylor Square in the late 70s. People talked about him so I got hold of some books from the local library and read about it all. Its interesting that in the 30s, the Protestants who dominated all levels of authority were more than happy to blame the Catholics for the rising crime rate. Its not theonly time or the only place that the Catholics have been held accountable for the woes of the community.

I havent thought of Squizzy Taylor for years but I do remember thinkingit was a fascinating period in Sydney's history.. although I'm sure those who werein the middle of it wouldn't actually have call it 'fascinating'.

I only brought it up here to illustrate the historical parrallels.

 

[Willow]

"I think that the population as a whole has got more intelligent in the past 30yrs."
Well... I don't know mate. Seems to me that we throw away more than we ever did before, the education system is up the duff and we still have the Cronulla Sharks... not very intelligent if you ask me.

 

[imported_midas]

I don,t think it,s a question of being more intelligent,rather one of being better-educated and better - informed.
Back in my fathers time and ,to a lesser extent,in my time kids left school at the minimum age out of dire economic necessity.This certainly does not happen to the same extent now with the result that most kids have probably at least two more years of formal schooling.
The electronic age has certainly led to people being better informed.Instead of having to seek out info,we are bombarded with it.
This has brought enormous benefits as the electorate ,IMO,is far better informed than 30 years ago (a fact which still escapes most pollies) .30 years ago the support of the media barons guaranteed election,whereas we have seen in recent years quite vicious media campaigns ignored by the electorate at large-a very positive sign.
I think the conservatism you refer to is more of an "I.m allright Jack"thing as there does appear to be a preoccupation with getting a quid and acquiring aseets than anything else.