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Alex McKinnon possibly Quadriplegic - Mclean guilty of dangerous throw - 7 weeks

How many weeks?

  • 1-2

    Votes: 53 42.7%
  • 3-4

    Votes: 25 20.2%
  • 5-6

    Votes: 10 8.1%
  • 7-8

    Votes: 10 8.1%
  • 9+

    Votes: 26 21.0%

  • Total voters
    124
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Knownothing

Juniors
Messages
764
Okay... sorry for being condescending... but to suggest that Alex McKinnon's double neck break is anything but an accident is just silly.

Is anybody seriously suggesting that the incident was not an accident?


If it was not an accident, it would have had to have been intentional, in which case at least one of the tacklers would be facing pretty serious criminal charges.


Accidents happen in contact sport. That is why contact sports have to have pretty clear rules to protect against accidents that cause serious injury. The only question is, was a rule, or more than one rule, broken?
 

Noname36

First Grade
Messages
7,067
I noticed that Budsy was referring to him in past tense, too, but players talk about Buderus as being one of the most genuine blokes to ever play the game so i imagine that he'd probably feel sick if he watched it back. He was clearly very emotional about it all.

Bennett just did a radio interview on John Laws and even he sounded close to tears. He was devastated. It's hit them hard, really hard.
 

_Johnsy

Referee
Messages
27,427
Okay... sorry for being condescending... but to suggest that Alex McKinnon's double neck break is anything but an accident is just silly.

You may want to try reading my post again. This is the part I am referring to

"If he is not put in the position (above the horizontal) ie. an illegal tackle he would not have had any need to take the action he did. It is a likely consequence of placing a person in that position that he may try to take evasive action as he did. It is not about blaming any single person, it is about how did he end up in a dangerous position (above the horizontal). The simple fact is a three melbourne players were effecting a tackle & one of them had his hand/arm between his legs and lifted him into that position.

Was it an unfortunate series of events from that point on (being placed above the horizontal) ? Yes
Was there any malice in those series of events ? No"
 

Silky

Juniors
Messages
31
Is anybody seriously suggesting that the incident was not an accident?


If it was not an accident, it would have had to have been intentional, in which case at least one of the tacklers would be facing pretty serious criminal charges.


Accidents happen in contact sport. That is why contact sports have to have pretty clear rules to protect against accidents that cause serious injury. The only question is, was a rule, or more than one rule, broken?

Whether this previous poster meant it or not, that's what his post was implying... he said that by definition it was not an accident because McLean grabbed him between the legs.

anyway i'm not looking for an argument... i'm sure we're all on the same boat.

If a law of the game was broken then it was right at the very bottom end of the seriousness chart. McKinnon going above the horizontal was almost as much to do with his own efforts to complete the tackle then it was to do with McLean.

Charge him, he'll get off because it's his first charge, then get on with it. By increasing the penalty because of the overall outcome in this case the game is basically saying - "Jordan McLean, it's your fault that Alex McKinnon might never walk again" - which is not acceptable as far as i'm concerned.
 

Silky

Juniors
Messages
31
You may want to try reading my post again. This is the part I am referring to

"If he is not put in the position (above the horizontal) ie. an illegal tackle he would not have had any need to take the action he did. It is a likely consequence of placing a person in that position that he may try to take evasive action as he did. It is not about blaming any single person, it is about how did he end up in a dangerous position (above the horizontal). The simple fact is a three melbourne players were effecting a tackle & one of them had his hand/arm between his legs and lifted him into that position.

Was it an unfortunate series of events from that point on (being placed above the horizontal) ? Yes
Was there any malice in those series of events ? No"

Yes but i wasn't reply to THAT post.. it was your previous post that was silly.

anyway, like i just said.. i'm not looking for an argument... i'm sure at the end of the day we're all on the same page.
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
26,050
Yes but i wasn't reply to THAT post.. it was your previous post that was silly.

anyway, like i just said.. i'm not looking for an argument... i'm sure at the end of the day we're all on the same page.
I don't really think you are, at all.

A player made an illegal tackle and it resulted in a players career being cut short... and possibly never walking properly again. The tackle is illegal due to the unpredictability of what happens when players are lifted that way, and because these sorts of accidents can happen.

He should be charged with a high level lifting charge. He's not guilty of malice or intention to injure, but he is largely responsible for what has happened. If he doesn't lift, it doesn't happen. More definitely needs to be done around the lifting tackle to ensure players safety... but we can't do it retrospectively unfortunately.
 

Joker's Wild

Coach
Messages
17,894
I feel sorry for McLean and the likely guilt and remorse he would be feeling but he is responsible for a dangerous action and needs to be punished accordingly. I am not a fan of punishments being taylored to an injury outcome (ala Snowdens case last year) but his sentence needs to be reasonably lengthy. An example needs to be set to completely wipe this type of tackle out of the game, the risks are just too high to f**k around any longer.
 

Joker's Wild

Coach
Messages
17,894
If Alex hadn't have tucked his head under his body to try and propel himself to the ground and complete the tackle it wouldn't have happened... there was a number of contributing factors, but in no way was one man's actions wholly responsible for that outcome.

It was a freakish, unfortunate series of events. Anyone trying to point the blame does not understand the game.

There are always a number of contributing factors in any scenario every day. The reality is that they are not all equal in their effects.

Jordans action to lift Alex and drive him in a dangerous manner was both the catalyst and the biggest contributing factor in the incident.
 

Still Nutty

Juniors
Messages
867
There was no malice but you place your hand between an opponent’s legs and lift, you create the situation where this can happen! Mclean did this at least 3 times during the game - the combination of elements in the other instances didn’t cause the results that occurred for Alex but the potential was there. And yes, there were other tackles by other players during the game that were lifting tackles and/or dangerous but it is not the point at the moment.

For mine, Mclean's involvement was the principle cause of the tackle resulting in Mackinnon ending up on his head. The BS about Mackinnon 'ducking' his head, making him responsible for his injury is just crap – the points made by others here re being placed in the position illegally (hand between the legs and lifting past the horizontal) is the ‘cause’ – everything that occurs after that is the ‘effect’ (Alex looking to protect himself by ducking his head, etc.)...if his head hadn't 'ducked' he would have been driven with the same intensity, just face first into the turf and still with no protection for his neck...as much as it distresses me to see the state Alex is in now, it might have been even worse.

Just to touch on something not really covered in this thread earlier…he is a very tall player which is an important point in the physics of the tackling style he used on the occasions I mentioned earlier – with a hand placed between the tackled player’s legs and him standing upright, he automatically creates the pivot point for the tackled player being tipped past the horizontal because, even if the tackled player has some contact with the ground with his other leg, the physics don’t allow him to regain a level back to horizontal because of Mclean’s height - this was actually more obvious in the other tackles I mentioned earlier although they obviously didn’t result in harm or injury.

You might say that the style was mostly effective then, if that was the result of his previous tackles but my point is the technique was flawed and in this instance it is the bio-mechanics that creates the ‘cause’, not the intent. Having said all of that, I don't believe Mclean should be crucified for the results of the tackle - I'm sure he feels terrible and had no intention of causing injury. But his technique and execution are the problem and that is what the league need to deal with in this particular instance. The bigger issue of removing lifting tackles in general is a separate matter to be dealt with by the NRL.

My best wishes go out to Alex and his family at this difficult time and I hope for a full and speedy recovery...my thoughts are also with the Storm players involved - it is never any players intention to inflict severe injury on your opponent.

I am a Knights season ticket holder and my family and I will be there to 'Rise For Alex' on Sunday…and we will be there in the weeks and months to come to ensure one of our favourite sons is looked after going forward.


Finally - They breed Hunter Boys tough Alex...no matter what they say you can’t do and however long it takes, prove them wrong and go one better! Best wishes for a speedy and full recovery...and Newie will be there for you every step of the way!
 
Last edited:

Ronnie Dobbs

Coach
Messages
17,122
Yes but i wasn't reply to THAT post.. it was your previous post that was silly.

anyway, like i just said.. i'm not looking for an argument... i'm sure at the end of the day we're all on the same page.

The big issue here is where you found Stanley Steeler.

Dapto train station?
 

BunniesMan

Immortal
Messages
33,690
Some people are stupid. People are often punished for accidents. Intention is irrelevant if you knowingly choose to do the wrong thing. Of course he didn't want to break anyones neck but he chose to get his hands between legs and he chose to lift. He should get about 4 weeks. End of debate.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,553
Or maybe it's because it may be the end of his career in the footy paddock. Or something. :roll:

No.

"Alex was a great bloke" He isnt a great bloke anymore cause he cant play footy?

Obviously they are struggling with this tragedy but It doesnt sound great referring to a kid who is in a coma in the past tense as if they are dead.
 

elbusto

Coach
Messages
15,803
Some people are stupid. People are often punished for accidents. Intention is irrelevant if you knowingly choose to do the wrong thing. Of course he didn't want to break anyones neck but he chose to get his hands between legs and he chose to lift. He should get about 4 weeks. End of debate.
This is a BM classic. Nuff said!
 

Silky

Juniors
Messages
31
well whatever... i understand what you're all saying.... i guess i just feel for the kid and don't want the whole world to make it feel like it was all his fault.
 

Pugzley

Guest
Messages
5,924
Dude, it is his fault. Two teamates already were driving him back before he went in and lifted him up.
 

legend

Coach
Messages
15,150
Leagueunlimited.com/financial-future-alex-mckinnon/

THE FINANCIAL FUTURE OF ALEX MCKINNON?

SUBMITTED BY MICHAEL ON FRI, 28 MARCH 2014, 11:32

In light of the tragic accident that befell Newcastle Knights forward Alex McKinnon against Melbourne, the uncomfortable truth needs to be revealed about his possible (financial) future, post his recovery.

I want to make it clear I am making no assumptions about Alex McKinnon’s financial status and am not privy to such information.

It is highly unlikely McKinnon will ever play professional Rugby League again and the extent of the damage is yet to be determined and whilst McKinnon is in an induced coma, there must be ongoing concern from his family about what lies ahead for Alex.

Are the Newcastle Knights prepared to pay out the remainder of his contract even if his career is over? Does Alex have income protection insurance to cover any financial losses during his recovery? What is the benefit payment period? Does he have TPD (Total and Permanent Disablement) cover in place?

Do the NRL have a pension plan for retired players, especially ones who have their careers ended abruptly by injury whilst playing the game? Will the Men of League be relied upon to raise funds to ensure McKinnon is still financially stable during and after his recovery?What role should and do the RLPA play in player welfare in instances such as this?

These are the awkward questions that need to be asked when a player has his career cut short playing the game at the highest level.

As the game attempts to move forward, questions need to be asked about the long term welfare of players, not just on the field but post retirement from the game.

With the game flush with funds, are there mechanisms in place to deal with one off injuries such as McKinnon’s from a financial welfare standpoint? Will he receive a lump sum payment from the NRL? What are other sports doing in similar cases?

I certainly don’t have all the answers, hence the questions.

Let’s hope for Alex’s sake he can have peace of mind knowing, that at 22, with his career likely over that financial stress will be one thing he will not have to deal with during the long, hard road ahead.

Sometimes it takes an incident like this to bring about positive change.

Let’s hope the winds of change move swiftly…
 
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